GDT: Trades & Free Agency Thread - post expansion list

[Rude Dog]

Man our board is so toxic. Panicking is never the right answer. The team was a joy to watch most of the season. The Bucks were a toe nail away from getting put out once again. You would think they are the 80s leafs reading our board. And yes I am familiar with the playoff thing.

And I don’t care what the majority think. I have faith in Dubas moving forward. Even if it’s just one more year.

 

[TimeZone]

Man our board is so toxic. Panicking is never the right answer. The team was a joy to watch most of the season. The Bucks were a toe nail away from getting put out once again.

We haven't won a single playoff round in 17 years dude.

 

[Bluebear]

Let's put it this way, if the Leafs had a 3rd round pick and they were pick between 3 guys: one who they think will turn out like Gudas, one they think will turn out like Ennis, and one they think will turn out like Brayden Point.

I can tell you 10/10 of the time they take the guy they think will turn out like Point. And they absolutely should. I don't care if their entire pool are guys are smaller guys. Now obviously if they have a scouting team that constantly gets guys' profiles wrong, then that is a different problem. Get better scouts (or maybe a developmental team; depends on why they are failing). It has nothing to do with philosophy.

If they had to pick between a guy they think was going to turn out like Gudas and a guy they think would turn out like Ennis, they'd almost certainly pick Gudas. Doesn't matter if they have a bunch of Gudas' in the pool.

I will also say that guys grow. Palat and Killorn were the same size as Amirov when they were drafted. They bulked up. Same happened with a lot of our smaller picks, and a lot of them are still teenagers or 20 years old. They will continue to bulk up.

If they actually thought the guy would turn out like Point, they would be using a first rounder. Depending on the draft depth you might be using a late first rounders or at least 2nd rounders on the other two as well. You don't know in the 3rd round so maybe you gamble on a grinder with the way this team played in the playoffs and the skill they already have.

 

[Smif]

We haven't won a single playoff round in 17 years dude.

Thanks. I didn't know that. We should definitely start panicking and making irrational moves because now we know this information.

 

[Rude Dog]

We haven't won a single playoff round in 17 years dude.

wasn’t aware. Thanks for the update dude. I think Dubas put the team in a position to succeed. The players let him down. Would Tavares, Muzzin or Foligno help win one game? No idea.

 

[rojac]

We haven't won a single playoff round in 17 years dude.

A team you happen to cheer for hasn’t won a playoff series. How is your life impacted by what several sets of players who likely have no connection to you have done?

 

[17 Clark]

Man our board is so toxic. Panicking is never the right answer. The team was a joy to watch most of the season. The Bucks were a toe nail away from getting put out once again. You would think they are the 80s leafs reading our board. And yes I am familiar with the playoff thing.

And I don’t care what the majority think. I have faith in Dubas moving forward. Even if it’s just one more year.

Lmao keep telling your self you might begin to believe it

 

[The Podium]

Talks out there that the Leafs have made a deal for Brendan Lemieux

Talk out where?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Depending on the price and role, I would be good with this.

Lemieux is not that good and was just traded for a 4th only to be traded again not even half a year later.

He provides next to no offensive value and is awful defensively. He should not even be in the NHL right now.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Man our board is so toxic. Panicking is never the right answer. The team was a joy to watch most of the season. The Bucks were a toe nail away from getting put out once again. You would think they are the 80s leafs reading our board. And yes I am familiar with the playoff thing.

And I don’t care what the majority think. I have faith in Dubas moving forward. Even if it’s just one more year.

I don't think re-structuring the cap equals panicking.

The core four could have worked when the cap was rising. It was assumed all of the good depth around them would be locked up as the cap grew and they'd still have space to add the finishing pieces.

Due to Covid, they are now losing players and not adding much in return. Valuable complementary assets like Kapanen, Johnsson, Hyman, Andersen are gone. They're very lucky Freddy is a complete dud now. If he was a passable goalie that had played more and kept Campbell on the bench, the Leafs were looking at another massive hit to their shrinking cap.

This team is not the Bucks or the Lightning. Those teams had winning experience in the playoffs. They just finished the job. The Leafs have now been knocked out of the first round five times in a row. It's a completely different story.

Dubas mentioned today he had to "adapt" due to Covid but it seems like he's doing the exact opposite. This is not adapting. It's being stubborn. 3-4 of the new pieces are almost guaranteed to be rookies/sophomores (Sandin, Liljegren, Robertson, Anderson/Brooks). Campbell is a newbie himself so there's no meaningful protection for the mistakes that are going to be made. The second goalie coming in will also not be a superstar.

Almost everything is heading in the wrong direction with this team.

Dubas is a good GM but he needs to make proper adjustments and understand a flat cap means it's okay to change your perspective. It's okay to hurt a player's feelings as a GM. It's okay to put your ego aside with the "We can and we will" nonsense.

 

[TimeZone]

Thanks. I didn't know that. We should definitely start panicking and making irrational moves because now we know this information.

You should direct me to where I stated I was in favor of making panic moves.

You might want to look at the bottom of the post I quoted, where the poster made an extremely poor Milwaukee Bucks analogy.

This team is not good, making panic moves isn't the correct way to go about things but neither is standing pat with a proven loser core.

 

[TimeZone]

wasn’t aware. Thanks for the update dude. I think Dubas put the team in a position to succeed. The players let him down. Would Tavares, Muzzin or Foligno help win one game? No idea.

Imagine blowing a 3-1 series lead to the Montreal Canadiens and still pumping out excuses.

Foligno is garbage btw.

 

[TimeZone]

A team you happen to cheer for hasn’t won a playoff series. How is your life impacted by what several sets of players who likely have no connection to you have done?

I genuinely have no idea how to respond to this post.

I'm not allowed to rightly criticize the Hockey team I cheer for because it doesn't directly impact my life? Perhaps a Hockey forum isn't for you.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't think re-structuring the cap equals panicking.

The core four could have worked when the cap was rising. It was assumed all of the good depth around them would be locked up as the cap grew and they'd still have space to add the finishing pieces.

Due to Covid, they are now losing players and not adding much in return. Valuable complementary assets like Kapanen, Johnsson, Hyman, Andersen are gone. They're very lucky Freddy is a complete dud now. If he was a passable goalie that had played more and kept Campbell on the bench, the Leafs were looking at another massive hit to their shrinking cap.

This team is not the Bucks or the Lightning. Those teams had winning experience in the playoffs. They just finished the job. The Leafs have now been knocked out of the first round five times in a row. It's a completely different story.

Dubas mentioned today he had to "adapt" due to Covid but it seems like he's doing the exact opposite. This is not adapting. It's being stubborn. 3-4 of the new pieces are almost guaranteed to be rookies/sophomores (Sandin, Liljegren, Robertson, Anderson/Brooks). Campbell is a newbie himself so there's no meaningful protection for the mistakes that are going to be made. The second goalie coming in will also not be a superstar.

Almost everything is heading in the wrong direction with this team.

Dubas is a good GM but he needs to make proper adjustments and understand a flat cap means it's okay to change your perspective. It's okay to hurt a player's feelings as a GM. It's okay to put your ego aside with the "We can and we will" nonsense.

The problem is that people think "adapting" is "trade Marner". When you are a team trying to compete, trading a 90+ point winger, even with his playoffs struggles, is not something that is exactly easy when you need a return which improves our team. Not many, if any, trades out there like that.

GMs have done much more stupid and stubborn things than trust an Art Ross Winner and a 90+ point winger, both in their mid-20's, to get it done and prove their worth in the playoffs. If that gets him fired, then I will at least respect him for it more than making short-sighted, rash moves that blow up in his face and leave us in a much worse position... Which are the vast majority of the suggestions being made right now. A new GM would love to have the problems and team Dubas has built for them right now.

 

[kb]

Lemieux is not that good and was just traded for a 4th only to be traded again not even half a year later.

He provides next to no offensive value and is awful defensively. He should not even be in the NHL right now.

I was thinking soft deal with full retention.......lol

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I was thinking soft deal with full retention.......lol

I mean I guess, but IDK what value he provides to this lineup? Grit? That alone is not going to help us.

He is not good enough to play on either special teams, he is a terrible possession player, he doesn't score, he does not defend well. Simmonds can bring grit and at least somewhat take a regular shift and be a PP guy.

Outside of a 44 game stretch with WPG where he had a ridiculous 24% shooting percentage, Lemieux has been a sub-replacement NHL player. He is only 24 but he is in league minimum and AAAA territory with the hope he can figure his crap out territory right now. LA is better off just praying he turns it around next year and non-tendering him if he does not.

 

[Rude Dog]

You should direct me to where I stated I was in favor of making panic moves.

You might want to look at the bottom of the post I quoted, where the poster made an extremely poor Milwaukee Bucks analogy.

This team is not good, making panic moves isn't the correct way to go about things but neither is standing pat with a proven loser core.

Do you honestly think Giannis wouldn’t be getting ripped right now if they once again got bounced in the 2nd round. Questions surrounding his ability to win a title? He got the chance to prove the doubters wrong. But make no mistake that series was over if it wasn’t for Durants shoe size not to mention injuries to Brooklyn’s key player.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Klefbom's cap hit is 4.17 million which we could use with him on LTIR. That would be a nice return for losing Hyman.

Ltir is useless to us, we’re not close to the cap. If trading Hyman and Edmonton gets the 8th year saving a few hundred Thousand annually I want a lot more than a 6th

 

[TimeZone]

Do you honestly think Giannis wouldn’t be getting ripped right now if they once again got bounced in the 2nd round. Questions surrounding his ability to win a title? He got the chance to prove the doubters wrong. But make no mistake that series was over if it wasn’t for Durants shoe size not to mention injuries to Brooklyn’s key player.

In the last three years now the Bucks have went to the conference finals(lost to the Championship Raptors), lost in the second round and now won an NBA Championship.

The only thing that's relevant in the end is that they won the Championship, however, even if they hadn't the Bucks still would have had significantly more playoff success just over the last 3 seasons compared to Toronto's inability to win a single playoff series over the course of nearly two decades.

 

[definedMF]

I disagree but to each their own. There's no need to make a race comment like that. Racial representation? That has nothing to do with icing a hockey team and the comment was not needed.

Edit: for the record, I'm only half white

I do agree it shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of icing the best team, but to assume that there is no room for representation even if the comment was clearly half serious you to be so adamantly opposed to mentioning race is concerning. Also your color of your skin doesn't matter when you say bigoted and hurtfully ignorant things, you don't get a different evaluation for your comments because of it.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

In the last three years now the Bucks have went to the conference finals(lost to the Championship Raptors), lost in the second round and now won an NBA Championship.

The only thing that's relevant in the end is that they won the Championship, however, even if they hadn't the Bucks still would have had significantly more playoff success just over the last 3 seasons compared to Toronto's inability to win a single playoff series over the course of nearly two decades.

Making it to the 2nd round in basketball is not even an accomplishment. When you have super teams and 4 or 5 teams are really even expected to have a realistic shot at a Championship in any given year, the other 10 teams that make the playoffs are mostly just happy to get some added revenue and have the chance for a massive upset. If you lose in the first round in the playoffs, you are probably closer to a non-playoff team than a real contender. Not even remotely the same in the NHL.

That is why it was a big deal when the Raptors, and now the Bucks, won a Championship... It showed that you did not need to have multiple guys like Curry and LeBron on the same team to win. It took Milwaukee a number of chances and a lot of faith in Giannas to finally get there, but they did it.

 

[TimeZone]

Making it to the 2nd round in basketball is not even an accomplishment. When you have super teams and 4 or 5 teams are really even expected to have a realistic shot at a Championship in any given year, the other 10 teams that make the playoffs are mostly just happy to get some added revenue and have the chance for a massive upset. If you lose in the first round in the playoffs, you are probably closer to a non-playoff team than a real contender. Not even remotely the same in the NHL.

That is why it was a big deal when the Raptors, and now the Bucks, won a Championship... It showed that you did not need to have multiple guys like Curry and LeBron on the same team to win. It took Milwaukee a number of chances and a lot of faith in Giannas to finally get there, but they did it.

Making it to the second round in the NHL shouldn't be considered an amazing accomplishment either if we're being honest. The fact that the Maple Leafs have been so incredibly abysmal during this 17 year stretch in the postseason has lead minimal expectations, and they've proven even incapable of that.

Let's not pretend we've lost to back powerhouses the preview us two series' we've been involved in. Yes Montreal got hot at the right time and their win against Vegas was certainly surprising(Thanks Fleury and sub 10% PP), but they were completely outclassed against Tampa Bay.

CBJ and Montreal(barring significant roster changes) are likely both non-playoff teams next season, and and I'm quite confident had Montreal made the playoffs and ended up in a first round matchup against the likes of Tampa Bay(We already know this), Carolina or Boston they would've been dispatched of and nobody would've batted an eye.

I don't see this Leafs team competing with Tampa Bay, beating Boston, Carolina ,
The Islanders or any other serious contender unless there are significant changes to the team.

The Bucks have been in the final four twice in the last four years and just won the Championship. This wasn't their first run and different league or not they've at least showcased they're capable of locking up a series, something the Toronto Maple Leafs have shown to be incapable of for a very, very long time.

More power to you if you believe the Leafs current lineup (with minor FA tweaks) is going to be able to take out the likes of Tampa Bay, Boston or Carolina next season in the first round.

I'm not buying it, I don't even think we beat Florida.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If they actually thought the guy would turn out like Point, they would be using a first rounder. Depending on the draft depth you might be using a late first rounders or at least 2nd rounders on the other two as well. You don't know in the 3rd round so maybe you gamble on a grinder with the way this team played in the playoffs and the skill they already have.

Or you gamble on a guy like Point. Point was a 3rd rounder remember. When Point was drafted, Tampa did not expect he would become what he is today.

Gamble on the guys you think will end up having the greatest impact on your roster. If they think that guy is a grinder, they will draft a grinder. It is not like the Leafs have drafted one kind of player under Dubas. They may not be behemoths (although I would argue that there were very few behemoths even worth considering over the past few drafts), but they are not all soft, one-dimensional guys that people claim to think they are. There is a lot of variety mixed in there.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Making it to the second round in the NHL shouldn't be considered an amazing accomplishment either if we're being honest. The fact that the Maple Leafs have been so incredibly abysmal during this 17 year stretch in the postseason has lead minimal expectations, and they've proven even incapable of that.

(I read the rest of your post and I commend the work you put into it, but I am only going to comment on the first part).

It is significantly more impressive than in the NBA. There is legitimate parity in the NHL and a hard cap (well, kind of... Tampa threw a wrench in that a bit). Teams are a lot closer in quality than in the NBA, even if there are favourites.

I don't think comparing the NHL playoffs to the NBA playoffs is really a fair comparison though. It is rare to see double digit regular season wins separate teams in the NHL playoffs. Tampa + Calgary in 2018-2019 were the exception, but Tampa had the most regular seasons wins in NHL history that year and Calgary was playing a team that only had 38 wins, which is rarely ever enough to make the NHL playoffs.

In the NBA, between 2014-2015 and 2018-2019 (I can include more years but I will keep it at the last 5 non-Covid years), this is how much the top and bottom teams were separated in terms of wins:

2018-2019: East - 19 wins, West - 9 wins.
2017-2018: East - 17 wins, West - 18 wins.
2016-2017: East - 12 wins, West - 16 wins
2015-2016: East - 13 wins, West - 32 wins
2014-2015: East - 18 wins, West - 13 wins.

Before the Covid years, in which case 2 #5 seeds made the Conference Finals, the last time a non-top 4 seed made the Conference Finals in either conference was 1999 when the #8 Knicks made it all the way to the NBA Finals (but lost). I can tell you that a non-top 4 seed has made it to the Conference Finals on numerous occasions in the NHL since 1999. An "upset" in the NBA is seeing a #4 in the Conference Finals. It's not apples-to-apples. Making the 2nd round in the NBA is probably the same as making the playoffs in the NHL. Winning the 2nd round can be seen as winning the first round, although even then we see far more upsets in the NHL than in the NBA in that regard. The real NBA playoffs start in the Conference Finals.

Should we have made it past the first round by now? Certainly. Should we have made it even further than that? Probably. Dubas obviously feels the same way, which is why he does not want to make radical changes to the team.

 

[stickty111]

Man some of our fans really need to be more mature. Just looked at even just one user posts who I had blocked, and boy wonder, boy blunder? Wow people grow up.
There is only one group that has been objective and fair between the anti Dubas group, and the Dubas fan group and it's not the anti Dubas group.