Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[rumman]

Personally I disagree. I don't think allocating that much of the cap to four players, specifically forwards is a big problem. Last year, it wasn't that our Goalies let us down, or our D wasn't quite good enough in the playoffs. It was those four forwards didn't play to the level of their pay. If you have truly elite players, they should be dominating, especially on the PP, which of course they have in the regular season most of the time.... Top 2 team in the NHL, along with the Oilers over the past years.

4.8% in the playoffs last year on 21 opportunities... if they are elite players, at nearly 30% like the Oilers and Avalanche, that's 6-7 goals on the PP, instead of 1.

Matthews shoots 5% in the playoffs.... normally he's over 15%... that's an extra two goals... (We could say the same of Marner and Tavares too)

So if this offense puts in an extra 8-9 goals... we probably move on, and continue to have success.

I think the problem is these "elite" players, paid at an "elite" level, just aren't "elite" when the playoffs come. It's that SO FAR, these are the wrong players to expect playoff success. Frankly, if we paid them 40% of the cap, I don't think it makes any difference either.... you need your best players to be the best players on the ice, when it counts.

The cap % is a compelling argument no doubt, but I think it's a red herring. Our stars, just don't show up enough in the playoffs. Frankly their pay doesn't matter... if they aren't going to show up when it counts, they aren't going to show.

If so much of the cap wasn’t tied up to 4 forwards they could acquire better goaltending and improve the D, your making my point for me my friend. Another consideration is how much of the cap being tied up to so few players affects the team when said players get hurt like happened last playoffs?

 

[Fogelhund]

If so much of the cap wasn’t tied up to 4 forwards they could acquire better goaltending and improve the D, your making my point for me my friend. Another consideration is how much of the cap being tied up to so few players affects the team when said players get hurt like happened last playoffs?

Except we let in fewer goals than either of the Cup finalists. I mean, if you want to build a team that wins 1-0, 2-1 and can only win that way, sure. The point about players getting hurt is valid... but then, I don't think it matters much... if McDavid got hurt, Edmonton would be toast. If Bob was hurt, Florida wouldn't have gone past the first round...

 

[WTFMAN99]

I agree in so much, as you move on from players who don't help in the playoffs. If we have guys who played like Kucherov, or MacKinnon, or McDavid in the playoffs, we'd keep them, and build the team around them and it wouldn't matter what they were paid. Again, the dollars doesn't matter much, in my opinion. It's the quality of play. If they don't work as a group, you have to move on from the weakest players in the playoffs.

It was really frustrating to hear yesterday again that when they looked at moving on from the core guys that they couldn't find a deal that would make them better and it's like, how? For many years can you say that and then get sent packing round 1?

I'll never dispute Marner is like a 1st or 2nd team all star, good for 85-95 pts a year, good 2-way game but he absolutely does not show up in the playoffs.

I see guys like Lucas Raymond upping for 8.05M x 8 years with Detroit (BUT THE CAP IS GOING UP) and then I see Marner at a hair under 11M and don't even know if that AAV makes sense, never mind a raise.

 

[rumman]

Except we let in fewer goals than either of the Cup finalists. I mean, if you want to build a team that wins 1-0, 2-1 and can only win that way, sure. The point about players getting hurt is valid... but then, I don't think it matters much... if McDavid got hurt, Edmonton would be toast. If Bob was hurt, Florida wouldn't have gone past the first round...

I don’t care how they win, I loved the Roger Nielson Leafs……….

 

[ULF_55]

I don’t care how they win, I loved the Roger Nielson Leafs……….

There were quite a few I liked better than Keefe's Leafs.

 

[aingefan]

It was really frustrating to hear yesterday again that when they looked at moving on from the core guys that they couldn't find a deal that would make them better and it's like, how? For many years can you say that and then get sent packing round 1?

I'll never dispute Marner is like a 1st or 2nd team all star, good for 85-95 pts a year, good 2-way game but he absolutely does not show up in the playoffs.

I see guys like Lucas Raymond upping for 8.05M x 8 years with Detroit (BUT THE CAP IS GOING UP) and then I see Marner at a hair under 11M and don't even know if that AAV makes sense, never mind a raise.

Who said what about exploring the market on core guys?
I don’t recall anything about that….maybe I missed it?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Who said what about exploring the market on core guys?
I don’t recall anything about that….maybe I missed it?

Tree / Shanny media availability yesterday.

 

[Lightsol]

I see guys like Lucas Raymond upping for 8.05M x 8 years with Detroit (BUT THE CAP IS GOING UP) and then I see Marner at a hair under 11M and don't even know if that AAV makes sense, never mind a raise.

And that's entirely Tre's doing at this point; giving Nylander $11.5 virtually guarantees that an offer to Marner is going to be higher. Unless you want to be the guy who has to justify why Nylander should make more than Marner. Have fun with that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

And that's entirely Tre's doing at this point; giving Nylander $11.5 virtually guarantees that an offer to Marner is going to be higher. Unless you want to be the guy who has to justify why Nylander should make more than Marner. Have fun with that.

I think the only way I have been able to come up with him taking the same or less (PR win) would be that signing bonus after the season is done similar to Jarvis in Carolina but Marner would need to have a willingness to do this.

 

[Sypher04]

I think the only way I have been able to come up with him taking the same or less (PR win) would be that signing bonus after the season is done similar to Jarvis in Carolina but Marner would need to have a willingness to do this.

I think ultimately Marner will sign for around the Nylander equivalent deal. ~12.25M x 8

 

[Sypher04]

Except we let in fewer goals than either of the Cup finalists. I mean, if you want to build a team that wins 1-0, 2-1 and can only win that way, sure. The point about players getting hurt is valid... but then, I don't think it matters much... if McDavid got hurt, Edmonton would be toast. If Bob was hurt, Florida wouldn't have gone past the first round...

Yeah. 2 of our 3 best players only played half the series due to injury. And while you need to overcome that, it certainly does put you behind the 8-Ball.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think ultimately Marner will sign for around the Nylander equivalent deal. ~12.25M x 8

Thanks - I hate it


lol

 

[Sypher04]

Thanks - I hate it


lol

lol it’s definitely more than I want to pay him but I don’t want him to walk either.

 

[LeafChief]

Marner will be re-signed.

Sorry to those that this offends.

 

[conFABulator]

Marner will be re-signed.

Sorry to those that this offends.

I hope he is not resigned until he proves what he is worth in the playoffs.

If he is signed the amount, term and conditions need to understood before I can process how I feel about it.

8 x $12M WITHOUT a full NMC is probably something I could live with.

 

[ULF_55]

If so much of the cap wasn’t tied up to 4 forwards they could acquire better goaltending and improve the D, your making my point for me my friend. Another consideration is how much of the cap being tied up to so few players affects the team when said players get hurt like happened last playoffs?

For the key injuries they had, they still took the favorites to 7 games and overtime.

They need a Cowan type of NHL player.

 

[rumman]

For the key injuries they had, they still took the favorites to 7 games and overtime.

They need a Cowan type of NHL player.

Doesn’t dispute the fact that when so much cap is tied up to so few players it’s a real problem if those few players get injured. Many hands make for light work……..

 

[Lightsol]

Yeah. 2 of our 3 best players only played half the series due to injury. And while you need to overcome that, it certainly does put you behind the 8-Ball.

And the third one was clearly still suffering from a not 100% ankle.

 

[ULF_55]

Doesn’t dispute the fact that when so much cap is tied up to so few players it’s a real problem if those few players get injured. Many hands make for light work……..

I think if you take the two best scorers out of any line-up it is going to hurt.

Most goals win, most assists are irrelevant.

 

[rumman]

I think if you take the two best scorers out of any line-up it is going to hurt.

Most goals win, most assists are irrelevant.

Not wise to put all your eggs in one basket if you get my drift……

 

[thusk]

1- When i saw toronto in pp and battle a 1v3 or 2v3 in the corner and was looking like the team on PK, for me i saw something wrong.

For what i saw under Keefe, leafs played to don't lose and i never saw a team playing for win. I explain myself

Toronto was playing to make minimum of mistake, taking minimum of risk and t
forgot a little bit their identity coming playoff time.

My 1st exemple of 1v3 or 2v3 was not about pp strategy or lack of work, its a result of minimum of risk type of system. dont risk to go 4v3 in thr corner to dont tske the risk to give up a scoring chance if thry lost it. Every thing they did was minimize every risk but at the end leafs got minimal result offensively.

playing to win for me is to play without fear and just doing what you're best at... Play to make thing happen unstead of waiting for it.

I think its gonna be the #1 difference with Berube, playing to win unstead playing to dont lose

 

[ULF_55]

Not wise to put all your eggs in one basket if you get my drift……

I know what you're saying but if McDavid and Draisaitl were out of the Oilers line-up, wouldn't matter what supporting cast they have.

 

[rumman]

I know what you're saying but if McDavid and Draisaitl were out of the Oilers line-up, wouldn't matter what supporting cast they have.

Look at Florida, lots of very good players, like I said many hands make for light work……..

 

[notDatsyuk]

I agree in so much, as you move on from players who don't help in the playoffs. If we have guys who played like Kucherov, or MacKinnon, or McDavid in the playoffs, we'd keep them, and build the team around them and it wouldn't matter what they were paid. Again, the dollars doesn't matter much, in my opinion. It's the quality of play. If they don't work as a group, you have to move on from the weakest players in the playoffs.

Yes, and the problem for this year it that it's virtually Impossible to move on from those two until next summer.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And that's entirely Tre's doing at this point; giving Nylander $11.5 virtually guarantees that an offer to Marner is going to be higher. Unless you want to be the guy who has to justify why Nylander should make more than Marner. Have fun with that.

I'm not sure anyone is going to offer Marner more than $11.5 (I sure hope it isn't Toronto). Nylander got paid that because he's the better player, especially if he successfully transitions to centre.