Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[ULF_55]

That's a nice deal for both sides. Well done from Chevy.

So we get to see who was right, McGroarty or the Jets.

 

[OVO16]

Sammy Blais PTO to the Canucks.

Interesting, thought for sure he would be leafs target on a PTO with Berbube as the coach and all.

 

[ULF_55]

Sammy Blais PTO to the Canucks.

Interesting, thought for sure he would be leafs target on a PTO with Berbube as the coach and all.

Abbotsford is a nice area.

Quick drive to the ocean and ferry.

 

[Fogelhund]

That's a nice deal for both sides. Well done from Chevy.

Agreed. I think Penguins got the better player, and they certainly got the more NHL ready one... and given their absolute win while Sid and Geno are still there mentality, it's a win for them. For the Jets, getting that kind of value out of this situation is also a win.

""

 

[Menzinger]

The Pens get the edge value wise in the trade. But the Jets did well getting a decent return for a.player in a difficult situation

 

[Gabriel426]

If you're trying to say the Leafs drafted the wrong players, and then signed the wrong UFA, it's just the luck of the draft/draw.

Realistically, Leafs may have done better with less this year, losing in overtime in game 7.
Nylander being unable to play for 3 games, still lead team in goals.
Matthews, being unable to play still tied for points lead.

marner 3 points in 7 games.
Tavares 2 points in 7 games.

When you are missing your shooters ... no scraps to go around.

No I am saying Leafs betted on the wrong horses

 

[Fogelhund]

""

Now who is Pittsburgh going to offload?

 

[ULF_55]

No I am saying Leafs betted on the wrong horses

Those are the horses they drafted, and the best center available who would sign with the Leafs.

Matthews was the correct choice.

marner there was apparently some discussion about at the draft.

Nylander could have been Pastrnak.

Tavares was a free wallet.

 

[Gabriel426]

Those are the horses they drafted, and the best center available who would sign with the Leafs.

Matthews was the correct choice.

marner there was apparently some discussion about at the draft.

Nylander could have been Pastrnak.

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Tavares was a free wallet.

JT is a free wallet which means they could had not sign him. They signed him bc they(MGT) believed he is someone that would help the Leafs win the Cup.

Not going into the what if scenario in draft bc that’s just a rabbit hole.

My OG point is that for the money that Leafs playing on the big four for this season is equal to McD, Mack, Barkov and Pasta contract with 0.29mil change.
And I doubt anyone in the league would take our four over those four. Which is why the Leafs can’t really contend bc our four just don’t provide the value as those four.
Which means Leafs betted on the wrong horses. And the idea that they continue to bet on them in hopes that they eventually would win is quite dumb.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander could have been Pastrnak.

Nylander also could have been Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Haydn Fleury... all guys drafted ahead of him.... or Nick Ritchie, drafted a couple of spots later, and the guy many wanted instead of Nylander.

Of that draft, there were 8 Forwards drafted in the top 10. Nylander was picked 8th, and has the third most points of the group.

Individually, each player was the best horse to get at that pick... I mean, realistically nobody is picking Pasta top 10... though hindsight.... We bet on the right horses... but they haven't worked out so far. Maybe they never will.

 

[ACC1224]

Nylander also could have been Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Haydn Fleury... all guys drafted ahead of him.... or Nick Ritchie, drafted a couple of spots later, and the guy many wanted instead of Nylander.

Of that draft, there were 8 Forwards drafted in the top 10. Nylander was picked 8th, and has the third most points of the group.

Individually, each player was the best horse to get at that pick... I mean, realistically nobody is picking Pasta top 10... though hindsight.... We bet on the right horses... but they haven't worked out so far. Maybe they never will.

Nylander was an excellent pick at 8

 

[Fogelhund]

JT is a free wallet which means they could had not sign him. They signed him bc they(MGT) believed he is someone that would help the Leafs win the Cup.

Not going into the what if scenario in draft bc that’s just a rabbit hole.

My OG point is that for the money that Leafs playing on the big four for this season is equal to McD, Mack, Barkov and Pasta contract with 0.29mil change.
And I doubt anyone in the league would take our four over those four. Which is why the Leafs can’t really contend bc our four just don’t provide the value as those four.
Which means Leafs betted on the wrong horses. And the idea that they continue to bet on them in hopes that they eventually would win is quite dumb.

Nobody in the league has THOSE four. Nobody. Nobody in the league bet on THOSE four.

Our guys were the best players available at those spots.... the right horses to bet on, for what we had available.

This premise about the best players on four different teams isn't a good comparison at all... nobody has those players.

We've overpaid... yes... but those were the best horses we had available to bet on... we didn't bet on the wrong horses at all.....

 

[Gabriel426]

Nylander also could have been Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Haydn Fleury... all guys drafted ahead of him.... or Nick Ritchie, drafted a couple of spots later, and the guy many wanted instead of Nylander.

Of that draft, there were 8 Forwards drafted in the top 10. Nylander was picked 8th, and has the third most points of the group.

Individually, each player was the best horse to get at that pick... I mean, realistically nobody is picking Pasta top 10... though hindsight.... We bet on the right horses... but they haven't worked out so far. Maybe they never will.

Just want to be clear, when I first mentioned betting on the wrong horses. I didn’t mean drafting them.
Rather it is a comment regarding knowing they are the wrong bet and need to move on and bet on the right ones. Instead continue to bet on them hoping they will come through.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

Now who is Pittsburgh going to offload?

I asked Pittsburgh fans who they thought they'd offload.... basically it's Eller, max return expected a third... and maybe waive Aciarri... they aren't sure how the last guys will fit in.
Pulji, Poulin, Puustinen as potential bubble guys... might get waived and AHL bound, if not claimed... not all, but one or two.

 

[SprDaVE]

""

Now who is Pittsburgh going to offload?

They'll probably go into camp with a lot of players and waive a lot of them. They have a lot of depth and meh players. I could see them offloading someone like Eller though. Acciari might be LTIR as well, not sure.

 

[Fogelhund]

Just want to be clear, when I first mentioned betting on the wrong horses. I didn’t mean drafting them.
Rather it is a comment regarding knowing they are the wrong bet and need to move on and bet on the right ones. Instead continue to bet on them hoping they will come through.

The challenge being... which are the wrong ones, and which are the right ones? I would have made moves this offseason. Berube wants a go at them, to see if he can change it from the wrong bet, to the right bet. Given we have no say, now we just sit and watch to see if he can go, where no man has gone before with this group. If they fail early again... for sure, I can't see how they don't change some of the horses... but it would be a real shame to see some walk, with no return.

 

[Gabriel426]

Nobody in the league has THOSE four. Nobody. Nobody in the league bet on THOSE four.

Our guys were the best players available at those spots.... the right horses to bet on, for what we had available.

This premise about the best players on four different teams isn't a good comparison at all... nobody has those players.

We've overpaid... yes... but those were the best horses we had available to bet on... we didn't bet on the wrong horses at all.....

That’s always the trade option. I know that’s not available now but it was available.
Imagine trading MM for Helle before last season.

Or not give those contracts to them. Ofcourse, you risk losing them for nothing but if the team ends up winning the Cup. Who cares.

For example if let’s say Leafs let Willie walked this summer, they might be able to sign Marchessault, Zadorov instead of OEL, Roy instead of Hakapnaa and Tanev.
Would that make the team better?

Nobody can answer that bc we just dont know but continuing to bet on players who failed to perform in playoffs hoping they will break through is the same as hoping to hit the jackpot at lotto max.

 

[ULF_55]

Nylander also could have been Bennett, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Haydn Fleury... all guys drafted ahead of him.... or Nick Ritchie, drafted a couple of spots later, and the guy many wanted instead of Nylander.

Of that draft, there were 8 Forwards drafted in the top 10. Nylander was picked 8th, and has the third most points of the group.

Individually, each player was the best horse to get at that pick... I mean, realistically nobody is picking Pasta top 10... though hindsight.... We bet on the right horses... but they haven't worked out so far. Maybe they never will.

Nylander was a top choice, Pastrnak was the only one that probably is the bases loaded homerun, but that happens. Nylander a homerun, was likely the right choice and other teams probably would do over if they could get him.

 

[ULF_55]

JT is a free wallet which means they could had not sign him. They signed him bc they(MGT) believed he is someone that would help the Leafs win the Cup.

Not going into the what if scenario in draft bc that’s just a rabbit hole.

My OG point is that for the money that Leafs playing on the big four for this season is equal to McD, Mack, Barkov and Pasta contract with 0.29mil change.
And I doubt anyone in the league would take our four over those four. Which is why the Leafs can’t really contend bc our four just don’t provide the value as those four.
Which means Leafs betted on the wrong horses. And the idea that they continue to bet on them in hopes that they eventually would win is quite dumb.

Those players are the Leafs horses, fans are the ones placing the bets.

I still think they are capable, but running back the same game plan, year after year, has been the problem.

There is evidence, within the past 1.5 years that minor, or even no changing of horses but changing the jockey was more important.

 

[Sypher04]

Well if the three players are McD, Barkov and Mack. Think that would be okay.

Do you know that for this coming season, instead of having our 4 10mil plus Betas of AM, Willie, JT and MM, Leafs could use the same salary and have McD, Mack, Barkov and Pasta with 0.29mil surplus.
Don’t think anyone would not take those four over our four. Two of them are better C than AM. While the other C is the best defensive Forward in the league and the RW is arguably top 3 goal scorers in this generation who just happened to score the OT series clinching goal against us a few months back.
And people wonder why Leafs couldn’t win a round in playoffs. Keep blaming the coach, depth, defence and goaltending. How about our 4 highest paid players playing their level.
Let’s run it back and see what happens.

Has anyone actually implied that the top 4 guys don’t shoulder the most blame? The failures of the core 4 don’t make other issues any less valid though.

I do ask the question, when all of your offensive players seemingly struggle to produce offense every single year which is more likely: that you just happened to be so unlucky to have drafted/acquired 4 top end players who all individually cannot elevate their games or that their struggles are at least somewhat a product of systemic issues with the team’s game?

 

[Fogelhund]

Has anyone actually implied that the top 4 guys don’t shoulder the most blame? The failures of the core 4 don’t make other issues any less valid though.

I do ask the question, when all of your offensive players all seemingly struggle to produce offense every single year which is more likely: that you just happened to be so unlucky to have drafted/acquired 4 top end players who all individually cannot elevate their games or that their struggles are at least somewhat a product of systemic issues with their game?

We will find out the answer to that question with a new coaching staff. If you change out every other piece, and you still get the same results... that's all that's left to blame. Hopefully a different outcome... but why do I feel like Charlie Brown?

 

[Sypher04]

We will find out the answer to that question with a new coaching staff. If you change out every other piece, and you still get the same results... that's all that's left to blame. Hopefully a different outcome... but why do I feel like Charlie Brown?

View attachment 902635

Yup. To me, the coaching change is easily the most fascinating storyline to follow this year.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yup. To me, the coaching change is easily the most fascinating storyline to follow this year.

It's probably the headliner for sure.

Secondary is the kids. Knies, Robertson, Grebenkin, Cowan, Minten how they grown into pro hockey, how Knies progresses, if Robertson can stick finally and show his promise... does Cowan or Grebenkin make the team.. can Minten score in the AHL? On D, is Niemela ready, is Mattinen NHL quality, or Webber for that matter... plenty or reasons to watch the Marlies this year.

Will Hildeby get a shot... can Woll stay in one piece?

The ability of these kids to give us a shot outside of the top four forwards, really can make a huge difference, if these four can find a way to do playoff hockey.

 

[Sypher04]

To me, there are a few standout perplexing coaching situations we’ve seen here over the last number of years: (in no specific order)

1) we acquire players because they play the style we are looking for and once we integrate them into the team, in most instances, we have seen them lose or significantly lessened in those qualities we were targeting when we acquired them.

2) we have allowed all our lines to play cute hockey. Your top 2 lines get a certain amount of leeway because of their skill, but if you’re a bottom 6 player and you’re not finishing every check, managing pucks and crashing the net, why are you on the team? Why are we putting up with perimeter play from the half of our roster that should be playing rugged hockey. It’s not a choice. It should be more demanded from the top 6 as well

3) special teams. It doesn’t take high IQ to be an effective penalty killer. It’s all coaching and goaltending.

4) lack of strategy adjustments. The powerplay from March on is the poster child for this. I mean, was there any plan at all?

5) never ending line shuffling. I firmly believe your lines need to be more or less locked in by the trade deadline at the latest to allow them to build chemistry

6) inability to start on time / constantly playing down to opponents.

 

[Fogelhund]

2) we have allowed all our lines to play cute hockey. Your top 2 lines get a certain amount of leeway because of their skill, but if you’re a bottom 6 player and you’re not finishing every check, managing pucks and crashing the net, why are you on the team? Why are we putting up with perimeter play from the half of our roster that should be playing rugged hockey. It’s not a choice.

I'm not sure I agree with this premise. If you play cute hockey, and that's your game, we shouldn't fit round pegs into square holes. If they can be effective doing that... let them be. If Robertson is on your third line... he's not likely crashing the net, or finishing every check, nor should he be. He's a skilled kid, let him play his game.

You should however be responsible in your hockey, manage pucks well, and be defensively aware... at least score more goals as a group on the ice, than we have scored against us.

I agree we need some of that crashing the net, finishing checks on every line though... that even includes the top two lines... there should be some of that throughout the lineup really.