Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Dekes For Days]

Pretty embarrassing then that Marner got outproduced by Domi in the postseason.

Not really. The only thing embarrassing is people repeatedly pointing to that and thinking it means something.

 

[ACC1224]

Now Domi is preferred over Marner
This board has completely lost it's mind.

 

[IPS]

Not really. The only thing embarrassing is people repeatedly pointing to that and thinking it means something.

You gotta go all the way back to 2018-2019 to find when Kucherov got outproduced by the secondary pieces of the Lightning in the playoffs. Every year since then he's either been tied for the leading scorer of the lightning or the leading scorer.

Rantanen also - literally never been outdone in the playoffs by a lesser paid player on the Avs.

Sorry this throws a wrench into your delusional reality. But funny enough I haven't really seen you throw out much "goalie'd" excuses for Mitch's production these last playoffs, seems you're a little fixated on Tre's acquisitions and how they ruined everything instead.

Edit: Aho too apparrantly. It's actually pretty hilarious - Mitch legitimately seems like the only one out of his direct comparable who's been outproduced by secondary pieces in the postseason multiple times.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You gotta go all the way back to 2018-2019 to find when Kucherov got outproduced by the secondary pieces of the Lightning in the playoffs.

So it's also happened to one of the top playoff producers in NHL history in his MVP year? Weird that you think that helps your argument.
Also pretty misleading, considering that he was matched in production by a defenseman last year, and by their defensive center the year before.

What about some other teams?
Debrusk outproduced Pastrnak and Marchand? What bums!
A defenseman outproduced Mackinnon and Rantanen? What bums!
A defenseman outproduced Draisaitl? What a bum!
Trochek outproduced Panarin and Zibanejad? What bums!
Pettersson 7th on his team in points? What a bum!
Reinhart 5th on his team in points, beaten by Lundell? What a bum!
All praise Washington's next offensive superstar... Martin Fehervary!

Gee, it's almost like this is ridiculous way to evaluate players.

 

[Fogelhund]

Leafs trade Marner
Seattle trades Dunn, Eberle, Wright,

Leafs trade Nylander
Rangers trade Trouba, Lafreniere

Leafs trade Robertson, Liljegren for future considerations

Lafreniere(2.5)/Matthews(13.5)/Eberle(4.75)
Tavares(11)/Domi(3.75)/Jarnkrok(2)
Knies(1)/Wright(1)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)

Dunn(7.5)/Trouba(8)
Rielly(7.5)/Tanev(4.5)
OEL(3.5)/Benoit(1.5)
*Hakanpaa(1.5), McCabe(2)

Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)

Total=86.85 (1.15 remaining)

Congratulations Brad.

I didn't think it was possible you could do an even worse job than last year. But somehow you managed to outdo yourself and made the team even older and shittier. All those mistakes in Calgary clearly taught you a thing or two.

Lol... Treliving hasn't learned a damn thing about GM'ing yet.

He's still signing ridiculous contracts. He still targeting veteran junk in free agency. And we all know he won't shy away from making a horrible trade at the drop of a hat.

When you have someone who has failed to acknowledge their stupid mistakes they are doomed to repeat them.

It's like Treliving has the right idea but doesn't know how to implement it properly. He just comes across as a stereotype of the cigar chomping 1970's GM as a result. He's the type to have one password for everything and it's Brad.

Keep up the good work, Brad, keep up the good work.

You roast Brad for what he's done, and repeatedly post trades like this, as if your ideas are somehow better. (They aren't.) Thanks for the terrible takes, and comedy.

 

[Fogelhund]

He put up 65 points (not 69) playing with a winger who put up 98.

His production dropped 20% despite playing with a linemate whose production went up 15%.

Even without looking at those awful numbers, just by watching him you can see that he's not the player he used to be.

It's become more obvious each year that Nylander is the driver on that line.

Yes, thanks for the correction. 65 points.

I do believe that I stated he declined... from a 1C, to a 2C... and sorry, 65 points are not awful numbers for a 2C.... no, he's not the All Star, Canadian National Team level 1C he once was... He's just an overpaid 2C.

It would be ideal if we could find a long-term 2C to take over from him eventually, as he slides down to 3C in the next few years, but he's probably got a couple of years as a decent 2C in him.

Are your expectations that he's going to put up 98 points like his winger as a 2C? Is that what you expect out of a 2C? FYI, Sam Bennett put up 41 points, while his wingers put up 72 and 88 points on the year... what a terrible player right?

Who are your replacement 2C's that are so much better, and how do you plan on getting them?

 

[Shooter2x]

Leafs trade Marner
Seattle trades Dunn, Eberle, Wright,

Leafs trade Nylander
Rangers trade Trouba, Lafreniere

Leafs trade Robertson, Liljegren for future considerations

Lafreniere(2.5)/Matthews(13.5)/Eberle(4.75)
Tavares(11)/Domi(3.75)/Jarnkrok(2)
Knies(1)/Wright(1)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)

Dunn(7.5)/Trouba(8)
Rielly(7.5)/Tanev(4.5)
OEL(3.5)/Benoit(1.5)
*Hakanpaa(1.5), McCabe(2)

Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)

Total=86.85 (1.15 remaining)

Drunk on a Monday morning? Pull yourself together.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nah... it's not fixed, just delusional. You really have to wonder what people's expectations for a 2C are. Does anyone watch other teams at all? Like at all?

Like Florida's 2C was Sam Bennett... put up 41 points last year. Boston had Charlie Coyle and Pavel Zacha as their two top C's, 60 and 59 points. Carolina's 2C was Jordan Staal and his 30 points.

Tavares put up 69 points, in his worst offensive campaign in years, while being over 59% on faceoffs, and a positive +- player, 5v5. This was a player that was pencilled in on people's Canadian Olympic team up until last year... but suddenly he's not good enough to be a 2C on the Leafs...

Like if this sucks as a 2C, what do people want and expect? Seriously. Who are these superior 2C out there, and how many teams have them?

I get the regression to his game last year, and that he's way overpaid now... but the bottom line is, he's still one of the better 2C's out there, after years and years of being a good 1C. But people are fixated on this idea that he's got to go, needs to be a winger, or our 3C, while somehow we bring in an acceptable 2C like McDavid or something.

Seriously, name some players that are better than Tavares, who would be acceptable 2C's.

To be fair, Bennett's 41 pts, they were in 69GP.

Tavares production is okay but relative to salary, it's not good at all, it's definitely not 11M. We all know and acknowledge this. When we move on from him and Marner, it'll be interesting to see how they fill in the holes as centre market for next year's UFA crop is pretty bad.

McDavid headlines the year following.

 

[Fogelhund]

To be fair, Bennett's 41 pts, they were in 69GP.

Tavares production is okay but relative to salary, it's not good at all, it's definitely not 11M. We all know and acknowledge this. When we move on from him and Marner, it'll be interesting to see how they fill in the holes as centre market for next year's UFA crop is pretty bad.

McDavid headlines the year following.

At this point, I don't think they can move on from Tavares.... I just hope he takes a $4 mil, or close to deal, so that it gives us some flexibility. Bennett's 41 points pro-rates to what... 48 points in a 82 game sched or so... just a guess... so the point still stands.. (and I like Bennett).

I also doubt they move on from Marner... ugg... I mean, my favourite mock trade was for an ELC 2C... so, I get the need...

 

[meefer]

Does a trade with LA make sense?

Marner for - Danault + Moore + (?)

If Byfield is thought to be the next... Is there balance?

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Leafs trade Robertson, Kampf, Reaves & Jarncrock

Leafs sign as UFA's : A. Nylander, Pacioretty & JVR

A. Nylander Matthews W. Nylander
Paciorrety Tavares Marner
JVR Domi Cowan
McMann Holmberg Knies

Reilly Tanev
OEL McCabe
Benoit Liljegren
Timmins

Woll Stolarz

I think I take issue with Alex Nylander (a career marginal player) all of a sudden getting a shot on the top line.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs trade Marner
Seattle trades Dunn, Eberle, Wright,

Leafs trade Nylander
Rangers trade Trouba, Lafreniere

Leafs trade Robertson, Liljegren for future considerations

Lafreniere(2.5)/Matthews(13.5)/Eberle(4.75)
Tavares(11)/Domi(3.75)/Jarnkrok(2)
Knies(1)/Wright(1)/Cowan(1)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35), Holmberg(1)

Dunn(7.5)/Trouba(8)
Rielly(7.5)/Tanev(4.5)
OEL(3.5)/Benoit(1.5)
*Hakanpaa(1.5), McCabe(2)

Stolarz (2.5)
Woll (1)

Total=86.85 (1.15 remaining)

Always with the random generator trades.

At least you put some thought into these "ideas."

I'm fine with marner to Seattle part.

 

[Fogelhund]

Always with the random generator trades.

At least you put some thought into these "ideas."

I'm fine with marner to Seattle part.

The problem with his "proposals" are they aren't set in reality. Seattle isn't trading their top D man, when there is no way to obtain a replacement. I'd love Wright though... something like Wright + Bjorkstrand + pick. would work for me. But then again, Marner isn't getting moved, so....

 

[Mckay]

""

I'd rather continue to believe that Marner eats babies. /s

 

[ULF_55]

Much better would be Domi on Matthews' wing and Marner on Nylander's.

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[notDatsyuk]

Yes, thanks for the correction. 65 points.

I do believe that I stated he declined... from a 1C, to a 2C... and sorry, 65 points are not awful numbers for a 2C.... no, he's not the All Star, Canadian National Team level 1C he once was... He's just an overpaid 2C.

It would be ideal if we could find a long-term 2C to take over from him eventually, as he slides down to 3C in the next few years, but he's probably got a couple of years as a decent 2C in him.

Are your expectations that he's going to put up 98 points like his winger as a 2C? Is that what you expect out of a 2C? FYI, Sam Bennett put up 41 points, while his wingers put up 72 and 88 points on the year... what a terrible player right?

Who are your replacement 2C's that are so much better, and how do you plan on getting them?

Bennett is an odd choice, considering he missed almost a quarter of the season, and didn't play with Tkachuk and Verhaeghe all the time.

Without discussing 'overpaid' as I don't think that's his fault, yes, he's been 2C calibre for the past few years, marginal 2C/3C last year, and should be 3C this year. As I said, the numbers are bad enough, but watching his play makes it pretty clear. If you disagree, fine, we can disagree.

I think the person who, now, would be a better 2C is Nylander.

I think for this year at least, while we still have Marner and Tavares, the best thing would be Matthews with Domi, Nylander with Marner, and Tavares at 3C.

 

[dubplatepressure]

""

So which is it? Did ROR and Schenn really not like the country club atmosphere here? Wasn't Marner supposed to be implicated in that country-club atmosphere?

 

[Kurtz]

Without discussing 'overpaid' as I don't think that's his fault, yes, he's been 2C calibre for the past few years, marginal 2C/3C last year, and should be 3C this year.

What is your production expectation for a #2 C?

 

[notDatsyuk]

The problem with his "proposals" are they aren't set in reality. Seattle isn't trading their top D man, when there is no way to obtain a replacement. I'd love Wright though... something like Wright + Bjorkstrand + pick. would work for me. But then again, Marner isn't getting moved, so....

Personally, I'm waiting for his proposed trade of Marner to Colorado for Mackinnon and Makar, which would solve both our 2C and 1D problems (I guess we'd have to add Liljegren to balance).

 

[Fogelhund]

Bennett is an odd choice, considering he missed almost a quarter of the season, and didn't play with Tkachuk and Verhaeghe all the time.

Without discussing 'overpaid' as I don't think that's his fault, yes, he's been 2C calibre for the past few years, marginal 2C/3C last year, and should be 3C this year. As I said, the numbers are bad enough, but watching his play makes it pretty clear. If you disagree, fine, we can disagree.

I think the person who, now, would be a better 2C is Nylander.

I think for this year at least, while we still have Marner and Tavares, the best thing would be Matthews with Domi, Nylander with Marner, and Tavares at 3C.

I'd agree on trying Nylander at 2C. If it works, that could be great, especially given what we are paying him. I don't think Tavares declines to 3C this year... in fact, I'd bet he will outperform last season if he stays at 2C.

I think I'd put Domi with Matthews and Knies, to get that puck distributor there. I'd try McMann or Robertson with Nylander and Marner...

I like the idea of some size on each line.. but then, I like the idea of having Robertson's shot being utilized... I don't like the idea of Robertson and Nylander together defensively though... but maybe Berube can coach some growth out of them.

 

[notDatsyuk]

What is your production expectation for a #2 C?

That varies very much by the type of player, but for a very much shoot-first type playing with one of the better passers in the league, 15 ES goals isn't good.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So which is it? Did ROR and Schenn really not like the country club atmosphere here?

There is no "country club atmosphere". That was never a thing outside of the minds of some fans, and had nothing to do with why O'Rielly and Schenn signed elsewhere.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'd agree on trying Nylander at 2C. If it works, that could be great, especially given what we are paying him. I don't think Tavares declines to 3C this year... in fact, I'd bet he will outperform last season if he stays at 2C.

I think I'd put Domi with Matthews and Knies, to get that puck distributor there. I'd try McMann or Robertson with Nylander and Marner...

I like the idea of some size on each line.. but then, I like the idea of having Robertson's shot being utilized... I don't like the idea of Robertson and Nylander together defensively though... but maybe Berube can coach some growth out of them.

I don't see him outperforming last season, especially if he's not playing with Nylander.

I think the 'Nylander is bad at defence' has been disproven but the comparative stats, which show Willy and Mitch are both good when with Matty, but not when with JT.

I do like the lines.

 

[Kurtz]

That varies very much by the type of player, but for a very much shoot-first type playing with one of the better passers in the league, 15 ES goals isn't good.

JT didn't play with Marner much last year, as you can see here:

John Tavares - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Find out John Tavares's latest linemates, game logs, advanced stats, player cards, news and analysis from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

Also, the average second liner produces at a 50pt/82g pace. JT obviously clears that comfortably.

The average 3rd liner produces at a 34pt/82 games pace. JT doubles that pace.

Objectively, JT produces an output closer to a typical 1st liner than 2nd liner, let alone 3rd liner.

Review of Production Based on Time on Ice

How many points does the average 1st liner in the NHL get each regular season? What’s the typical production from forwards getting second line minutes? And how do Winnipeg Jet forwards compare to…

www.arcticicehockey.com