Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Al14]

He has to be on the roster, you dont have to play him. Besides it would never come to that. If Mitch and his camp had any sense when presented with a "we dont want you" ultimatum he'd accept a trade.

To the unattractive to UFAs point, everyone always says that, and it's never true. Vegas treats players like a kid trading cards around. Philly use to run players out of town all the time and coveted UFAs would sign there over and over. It's just as much a business to the players. Regardless of what they say in their interviews on July 2nd they go where the money is, period.

I think Marner, and his WAR room, would get the message that he is no longer wanted by having our coach using him on the 4th line as well as healthy scratching him from games on a semi-regular basis. This would also assume that he turned down managements' request for him to waive his NTC.

Not sure if this would ever be done by our Leafs 'very professional' management, however it might just get the job done if their wish is to trade him ASAP.

I also wonder if the NHLPA would get involved as the team paying the player has the right to use them as they see fit.

Marner playing 4th line minutes, and sitting out, might hurt him signing a lucrative new contract next summer as a FA. Him, and his camp, knowing this, might have them changing their collective minds about waiving the NTC.

I'm not an agent or lawyer, so I have no clue as to the legality of this suggestion. As a retired minor league hockey coach, I miss the coaching of the players and being in the dressing room and behind the bench, however I sure as hell don't miss dealing with the parents nor all the terrible hockey politics involved at the league level.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't know why people assume there is animosity between the player and the team.
Marner is extremely popular member of the team, they aren't going to resort to childish methods in an attempt to get rid of him.

 

[Sypher04]

11G, 38P, in just 13 mins per game is actually pretty good for JVR last year playing in a depth role on the Bruins.

Always liked JVR. I wouldn’t be overly against bringing him back for a year if the deal was super cheap. No question he could help on powerplay as well

 

[PromisedLand]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813927844952850618

 

[nuck]

I think Marner, and his WAR room, would get the message that he is no longer wanted by having our coach using him on the 4th line as well as healthy scratching him from games on a semi-regular basis. This would also assume that he turned down managements' request for him to waive his NTC.

Not sure if this would ever be done by our Leafs 'very professional' management, however it might just get the job done if their wish is to trade him ASAP.

I also wonder if the NHLPA would get involved as the team paying the player has the right to use them as they see fit.

Marner playing 4th line minutes, and sitting out, might hurt him signing a lucrative new contract next summer as a FA. Him, and his camp, knowing this, might have them changing their collective minds about waiving the NTC.

I'm not an agent or lawyer, so I have no clue as to the legality of this suggestion. As a retired minor league hockey coach, I miss the coaching of the players and being in the dressing room and behind the bench, however I sure as hell don't miss dealing with the parents nor all the terrible hockey politics involved at the league level.

Marner being told he is not coming back and playing 18:00 on the second line would make enough of a statement. He can't sign an 8 year deal as a UFA. The issue is whether the team is hung up on getting "enough" value. The short term optics of trading an all-star, whether you won anything with him or not, are terrible. Its too bad they didn't have a year with Berube first and then make the decision, but they don't. And his value only falls once the season gets going.

 

[The Shadow]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813927844952850618

Bit of a misleading title - he said they had conversations. Close makes it seem like they almost had a deal done

 

[Fogelhund]

No need to give a scenario.

1. It's a pretty unique situation

2. Lots of players have waived their NMCs for a trade. Do you think it was all sunshine and lollipops behind the scenes before the player agreed?

I'm no CBA expert and could be wrong but I'd be shocked if you could file a grievance because you think you deserve more ice time or are healthy scratched.

As a final note on this. I'm not saying it will happen (it wont) or even that it should. Merely responding to the idea that there was no way to trade Marner if he didn't want it. You can in fact pressure him to a point he would be stupid not to waive.

No player in the history of the league, was sat out to force a trade. None. It's never happened, and it never will. You absolutely could file a grievance for behaviour that would devalue a players future contract and career, including being healthy scratched for the season, for harassment, and equality of opportunity, for fair conditions of work.

I suppose you've never read the CBA, or the NHLPA Universal Declaration of Players rights.

Here is just the beginning of those Declaration of Players Rights.

Every player has the right to a sporting environment that is well governed, free of corruption, manipulation and cheating and protects, respects and guarantees the fundamental human rights of everyone involved in or affected by sport, including the player.

ACCESS TO SPORT.​

Every player has the right to access and pursue sport as a career and profession based solely on merit.

EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY.​

1. Every player is entitled to equality of opportunity in the pursuit of sport without distinction of any kind and free of discrimination, harassment and violence.

1. Every player has the right to just and favourable remuneration and conditions of work

Honestly, anybody who has ever had any dealings, or even basic learnings in Employment Law, Human Resources would understand that healthy scratching a player until they agree to move, just isn't happening. It's land of make belief type of stuff.

Beside, the Leafs don't want to trade Marner... so none of this matters. And if Marner didn't want to be traded, he wouldn't be traded, even if the Leafs wanted to move him, and there is no actions they could do to make him go.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Realistically, teams would still offer him the moon, and he'd still get paid for this year.

IMO it would hurt the Leafs more than marner.

Another aspect is that if other teams knew he waived because we weren't going to play him, their trade offers would likely be appreciably less.

 

[Gaberd2608]

No player in the history of the league, was sat out to force a trade. None. It's never happened, and it never will. You absolutely could file a grievance for behaviour that would devalue a players future contract and career, including being healthy scratched for the season, for harassment, and equality of opportunity, for fair conditions of work.

I suppose you've never read the CBA, or the NHLPA Universal Declaration of Players rights.

Here is just the beginning of those Declaration of Players Rights.

Every player has the right to a sporting environment that is well governed, free of corruption, manipulation and cheating and protects, respects and guarantees the fundamental human rights of everyone involved in or affected by sport, including the player.

ACCESS TO SPORT.​

Every player has the right to access and pursue sport as a career and profession based solely on merit.

EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY.​

1. Every player is entitled to equality of opportunity in the pursuit of sport without distinction of any kind and free of discrimination, harassment and violence.

1. Every player has the right to just and favourable remuneration and conditions of work

Honestly, anybody who has ever had any dealings, or even basic learnings in Employment Law, Human Resources would understand that healthy scratching a player until they agree to move, just isn't happening. It's land of make belief type of stuff.

Beside, the Leafs don't want to trade Marner... so none of this matters. And if Marner didn't want to be traded, he wouldn't be traded, even if the Leafs wanted to move him, and there is no actions they could do to make him go.

Sundin didnt want to be traded but had no problem signing with another team. I am not convonced Toronto wants to trade Marner but if Marner actually wanted to stay with the Leafs long term him and his agent should push for a contract extension.

Given how much Marner makes already, it isnt like he stands to make significantly more by waiting. He is already making almost $11 million. He isnt going to get more than Matthews so the max he can probably ask for is $13 million. Leafs probably are offering the Nylander contract so we are talking about a $1.5 million spread. If he has a bad year or gets injured that can change things. Surely you can buy anything you need with $92 million instead of $100.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Ok.. which players did Vegas sit out?

Or just list all of the NHL players, teams have ever chosen not to play.

Just one scenario.

If a team has 22 players on their active NHL roster, and they are allowed to dress only 20 for each game, they they must have 2 players sitting out each game.

I'm not advocating it for Marner, just pointing out that it is a common situation, albiet primarily for less talented players..

 

[Fogelhund]

If a team has 22 players on their active NHL roster, and they are allowed to dress only 20 for each game, they they must have 2 players sitting out each game.

I'm not advocating it for Marner, just pointing out that it is a common situation, albiet primarily for less talented players..

Apples to Oranges. The PA isn't going to file a grievance for a marginal lineup player. Everyone knows the situation there. Even if they are a top player and get scratched for a game or two, no problem. Performance related, maybe team can claim a rest day... that's normal too. But to scratch a player for the whole season, who is a star in the league. There will be a grievance filed very quickly.

 

[Dreakmur]

There is a Collective Bargaining Agreement, which won't allow a team to do that. The Leafs would end up in court, lose, be black marked by the union and then be a very unattractive place to sign future UFA's. Not only is it not possible, it's a terrible idea.

There is a collective agreement that does allow players to be healthy scratches. It’s a bad idea, but Toronto absolutely could sit Marner every game next year.

 

[ULF_55]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813927844952850618

Montour and a Timmins calibre defender
Versus
Tanev and OEL

I'd have to think about it.

And if they're going near $7mm, that would probably put them into several options.

My guess the Leafs offer was less.

OT: Didn't know Brodie got picked up by Hawks 2*3.75mm.

 

[ULF_55]

Apples to Oranges. The PA isn't going to file a grievance for a marginal lineup player. Everyone knows the situation there. Even if they are a top player and get scratched for a game or two, no problem. Performance related, maybe team can claim a rest day... that's normal too. But to scratch a player for the whole season, who is a star in the league. There will be a grievance filed very quickly.

Every team in the league would flush the year he was relegated to scrub position.
It wouldn't be like "he's fallen off the deep end", it would be "welcome to our first class organization."
Every good player in the league would treat the Leafs much differently going forward.

Think it is tough to get good players today, with the market and the taxes?
Add bush league, vindictive management to that equation.

Sitting him would hurt the team more than the player, short term and long term.

 

[Deebo]

Even If Marner plays 0 games next year because the Leafs stupidly make him a healthy scratch him all year, he'll still get a fat contract on the open market when he hits free agency.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Apples to Oranges. The PA isn't going to file a grievance for a marginal lineup player. Everyone knows the situation there. Even if they are a top player and get scratched for a game or two, no problem. Performance related, maybe team can claim a rest day... that's normal too. But to scratch a player for the whole season, who is a star in the league. There will be a grievance filed very quickly.

What part of "I'm not advocating it for Marner" was unclear?

In fact, I wasn't suggesting sitting anyone for a season or to force a trade. All I was doing was correcting a poster who said teams don't sit players out.

As far as Marner goes, I think it's a terrible idea for the reason I already mentioned - knowing we were forcing him to waive so he could be traded would significantly reduce our return.

 

[1specter]

Montour and a Timmins calibre defender
Versus
Tanev and OEL

I'd have to think about it.

And if they're going near $7mm, that would probably put them into several options.

My guess the Leafs offer was less.

OT: Didn't know Brodie got picked up by Hawks 2*3.75mm.

Personally I'm happier with Tanev and OEL. Montour faded as the playoffs went on and got exposed defensively, and 7M is too much for a guy who you have to use selectively.

People on this board harp a bunch on a guy like Rielly yet they would lose their minds if they actually paid attention to the miscues and gaffes from guys like Ekblad and Montour.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Personally I'm happier with Tanev and OEL. Montour faded as the playoffs went on and got exposed defensively, and 7M is too much for a guy who you have to use selectively.

People on this board harp a bunch on a guy like Rielly yet they would lose their minds if they actually paid attention to the miscues and gaffes from guys like Ekblad and Montour.

Ekblad was in a match up role with Forsling so you can definitely look bad on some plays against elite forwards, Pietrangelo had some screw ups on Vegas this year but it's the day to day, he's great but you can always mess up. We kind of shelter Rielly and he still gets exposed at times.

Montour is interesting at 5.5ish but at 7+...under zero circumstance.

 

[ULF_55]

Sundin didnt want to be traded but had no problem signing with another team. I am not convonced Toronto wants to trade Marner but if Marner actually wanted to stay with the Leafs long term him and his agent should push for a contract extension.

Given how much Marner makes already, it isnt like he stands to make significantly more by waiting. He is already making almost $11 million. He isnt going to get more than Matthews so the max he can probably ask for is $13 million. Leafs probably are offering the Nylander contract so we are talking about a $1.5 million spread. If he has a bad year or gets injured that can change things. Surely you can buy anything you need with $92 million instead of $100.

I've read (and to find it today ???) Sundin checked in with the Leafs and they didn't want him back.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Montour at that cap hit would have made more sense did the Leafs didn’t have Rielly

 

[TMLAM34]

The Leafs aren’t going to play Marner on the fourth line, the best would be to slot him next to Tavares in hopes he can help JT have one more productive season. Ideally he’s traded but unfortunately that doesn’t look likely…

 

[freshwind]

leafs threatened bryan mccabe with being paid to stay home ... he waived his ntc

Are the Maple Leafs going to tell Bryan McCabe to stay away?

DARREN DREGER, the newest insider is reporting this afternoon that in their latest discussions with Bryan McCabe, leaf management have given the impression that if McCabe doesn’t agree to wai…

torontosportsmedia.wordpress.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

Another guy to look at is Barzal.... who signed for $9.15m on a first-year cap hit of $83.5m. 10.96% of the cap. Very, very similar players, with Barzal building an RFA year into the contract, so presumably his % should be a little lower than Marner's.

Comparing Marner to Barzal is like comparing Barzal to a 33 point player. They are not remotely similar.

 

[seanlinden]

Comparing Marner to Barzal is like comparing Barzal to a 33 point player. They are not remotely similar.

Smaller, right winger that puts up a pile of assists. Overall production lower than Marner, but he's required the carry the team offensively, whereas Marner plays on a much-higher scoring team with a much higher talent level up front.

 

[ULF_55]

leafs threatened bryan mccabe with being paid to stay home ... he waived his ntc

Are the Maple Leafs going to tell Bryan McCabe to stay away?

DARREN DREGER, the newest insider is reporting this afternoon that in their latest discussions with Bryan McCabe, leaf management have given the impression that if McCabe doesn’t agree to wai…

torontosportsmedia.wordpress.com

Speculation.

And he was so out to lunch ... wrt NMC clauses and history proves it.

Click bait.

Bryan McCabe, the way a story should be written

Fair and balanced. That is all we want right? Lyle Richardson is not a Leaf fan. So the opportunity to bash the buds on his spectorshockey.com is always there. However, as in most cases the guy pre…

torontosportsmedia.wordpress.com

“NATIONAL POST: Michael Traikos reports Toronto Maple Leafs GM Cliff Fletcher claims defenseman Bryan McCabe has “softened his stance” on waiving his movement clause and is now waiting for McCabe to provide him with a list of teams he’d accept being dealt to. There’s speculation the Leafs would prevent McCabe from attending training camp to force him into accepting a trade but NHLPA Executive Director Paul Kelly said that would result in legal action against the Leafs. Fletcher denied bullying or threatening McCabe, merely suggesting a change of scenery would benefit both sides. McCabe’s agent also suggested the possibility of his client staying in Toronto.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Ultimately the decision remains with McCabe, and if he decides to stay there’s little the Leafs can do about it. His apparent willingness to submit a list of preferred destinations also doesn’t guarantee he’ll be traded, since those teams might not have interest in him either because of his style of play or his $5.75 million per season contract. Still, this latest news does suggest a change in McCabe’s stance.”

Notice the absence of blood hating crap. Isn’t that a tad bit refreshing? We don’t need our writers to write eloquently (actual sentences would be nice), but spare us the constant negative hyperbole. Hat tip to Spector for a refreshingly unique (and accurate) view on the subject.