GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Fogelhund]

Kampf at 15 minutes per game, putting up 26/27 points, while providing us solid results on the defensive side, and on the PK, is worth $2.4 million. That was essentially 3rd line C results. At the time, we paid him $1.5 million, and that's reasonably good work, for that kind of pay.

Kampf at 13 minutes per game, putting up <20 points per game, and shaky defensive results, is not worth $2.4 million per year, as a 4th line C.

Now Kampf spent most of his time with Kerfoot and Engvall in 22/23, players with some speed, and ability. Kampf's skills were maximized.

Fast forward to last year... and he spent a lot of time with Reaves, Dewar and Gregor. Rather predictably, the results were poor, and his linemates were a poor choice to compliment what Kampf can do. However, when he had McMann, Knies, Domi or Holmberg on his line... the results were decent. But, we did more of the former, and less of the latter.

A couple of things. First, we paid more than we should have for Kampf, and then used in a way that doesn't maximize his success. We threw him on a fourth line, that lacked any identity.... I mean what was it... an enforcer, fast but smaller forechecker without a lot of skill, and a defensive C who needs more skilled and fast wingers. Aren't the results there predictable?

So now what? I think other teams will see the Kampf of 22/23, 21/22 and have interest... the return might not be much, but that's ok. Or we use him with linemates that play to his strength, for the benefit of the team. Throwing him out there with guys that lack speed, or skill, just isn't going to work.

This premise that Kampf came from the UFA scrapyard is baseless, and extreme. He was a decent hockey player for us, that filled an important role.. and then last year, Tre overpaid him, and Keefe didn't play him to his strength. The question being, can we replace him for less? The version from last year... easily... the version from the prior two years.. that isn't as easy.

 

[thusk]

Holmberg. Done.

He took a total of 23 SH faceoff in carreer regular season+ playoff...

Holmberg played the most time on the 2nd waived when he just came in when leafs dump in and started to defend from neutral zone. Much more easier to defend the neutral zone than started and defend the 1st 30-60 second in your own zone after every faceoff. it's extremely risky and if he's not able to handle it, you don't have any plan B and you will be really hard in trouble

 

[rumman]

Means nothing. Our management group is extremely risk adverse and governed by fear of change.

This narrative is probably more truth than fiction, we should know which by September……….

I wouldn’t go that far but this management group does treat its pieces a little too preciously at times. And Kampf isn’t precious.

Nor is Gregor, he can skate fast, but that’s it. Jason Blake 2.0……….

I would be over the moon if we got those returns.

Me too……..

 

[Fogelhund]

Nor is Gregor, he can skate fast, but that’s it. Jason Blake 2.0……….

I mean... Blake had five seasons with more than 50 points in this league... Gregor has 63 points in five seasons combined....

 

[SprDaVE]

I wouldn’t go that far but this management group does treat its pieces a little too preciously at times. And Kampf isn’t precious.

Treliving has been around only for a year, so we'll see. But looking at his signings going back to the Calgary days, it's rough.

 

[thewave]

I think these are the guys that are going
Lilly 2nd round pick
Kampf 3rd round pick
Jarnkrok 3rd round pick
Timmins 6th round pick

Dumping Lil for 2nd rounder may be a move that haunts you and the team down the line.

Give him another year.

 

[rumman]

I mean... Blake had five seasons with more than 50 points in this league... Gregor has 63 points in five seasons combined....

Blake looked like a player when he was with the Islanders playing against the Leafs, but as a Leaf, not so much. He’s was the NASCAR version of the Ice Capades imo………
.

 

[dubplatepressure]

He took a total of 23 SH faceoff in carreer regular season+ playoff...

Holmberg played the most time on the 2nd waived when he just came in when leafs dump in and started to defend from neutral zone. Much more easier to defend the neutral zone than started and defend the 1st 30-60 second in your own zone after every faceoff. it's extremely risky and if he's not able to handle it, you don't have any plan B and you will be really hard in trouble

Sorry I just don't share your opinion on how critical this is for us. Two teams in the finals are rolling out absolute replacement level players as their 4Cs.

 

[rumman]

Dumping Lil for 2nd rounder may be a move that haunts you and the team down the line.

Give him another year.

Perhaps he can garner a late first rounder or a player with upside, Lilly has proved he’s not the guy, time to move on imo……..

 

[Duffman955]

Dumping Lil for 2nd rounder may be a move that haunts you and the team down the line.

Give him another year.

Been waiting years for Lilly to not shit himself against top 6 Forwards

This year he shat himself against 4th liners

 

[Mess]

you have to actually make the playoffs first... Goodrow or 3 goodrow's at 3+ million is a recipe to miss the playoffs.

you have a team who put the guy on waivers so anyone can get him for free yet there's not likely to be any takers. if he was such good value for what he brings they wouldn't have put him on waivers in the first place.

Who do you believe helped their team more in this years playoffs Mitch Marner or Barclay Goodrow?

They both finished 6th in playoff scoring for their respective teams Marner with 1 goal and 3 points in round #1 loss and Goodrow 6 goals and 8 points in round #3 loss.

vs.

Goodrow finished 5th on NYR with 41 hits and 29 blocked shots vs Marner who finished 18th on the Leafs in these same stats.

Goodrow only makes $3.64 mil AAV vs Marner's $10.9, leaving NYR with an additional +$7.26 mil additional cap space.

So NYR can dress Barcaly Goodrow ($3.64 mil) + Leading scorer Vinny Trochek ($5,625,000) << Mitch Marner
or
NYR can dress Barclay Goodrow ($3.64 mil) & Alexis Lafrenière ($2,325,000) & #1G Igor Shesterkin (5.66 mil) for $11.5 mil compared to Marner @ $10.9 mil.
or
You pick how you want to use that extra +$7.26 mil cap space & Goodrow?

This demonstrates Why NYR were a final 4 Cup contender and why our Leafs are 1st round pretenders because only a diehard Leafs fan would prefer Marner in the playoffs to another team that can dress quality & quantity of playoff performers.

PS. Remember Leafs put their playoff starting goalie Samsonov on waivers during the season with NO takers and thought he could lead them to a Stanley Cup.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Leafs trade Marner, Robertson, Liljegren, Hildeby + 1st(2025) to Seattle for Dunn, Wright, Daccord, Tanev

Leafs trade Tavares + Minten + 1st(2024) to Chicago for Seth Jones*
*Chicago retains 50%

Leafs sign Skjei, Dumba

Bertuzzi(5.5)/Matthews(13.5)/Cowan(1)
Knies(1)/Wright(1)/Nylander(11.5)
Tanev(3.5)/Domi(3)/Jarnkrok(4)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35)

Total forwards: 49.85

Skjei(6)/Dunn(7.35)
Rielly(7.5)/Jones(4.5)
McCabe(2)/Dumba(2)
*Benoit(1.5)

Daccord (1.2)
Woll (1)

Total = 82.9 (4.5 remaining)

 

[Fogelhund]

Blake looked like a player when he was with the Islanders playing against the Leafs, but as a Leaf, not so much. He’s was the NASCAR version of the Ice Capades imo………
.

and yet he put up 52 and 63 points for us in consecutive seasons. We overpaid him for sure, but to compare him to Gregor is well wide of the mark. The issue was, he scored 40 goals for the Islanders, and never matched that kind of goal scoring with us. It was a matter of expectations and overpaying him. Today, a 50-60 point winger, for $4 mil per would be hailed as a good signing.... but comparing him to Noah Gregor? That's either a bad memory, or one of the many misaligned grievances.

 

[Fogelhund]

Who do you believe helped their team more in this years playoffs Mitch Marner or Barclay Goodrow?

They both finished 6th in playoff scoring for their respective teams Marner with 1 goal and 3 points in round #1 loss and Goodrow 6 goals and 8 points in round #3 loss.

View attachment 884370
vs.

View attachment 884372

Goodrow finished 5th on NYR with 41 hits and 29 blocked shots vs Marner who finished 18th on the Leafs in these same stats.

View attachment 884368

Goodrow only makes $3.64 mil AAV vs Marner's $10.9, leaving NYR with an additional +$7.26 mil additional cap space.

So NYR can dress Barcaly Goodrow ($3.64 mil) + Leading scorer Vinny Trochek ($5,625,000) << Mitch Marner
or
NYR can dress Barclay Goodrow ($3.64 mil) & Alexis Lafrenière ($2,325,000) & #1G Igor Shesterkin (5.66 mil) for $11.5 mil compared to Marner @ $10.9 mil.
or
You pick how you want to use that extra +$7.26 mil cap space & Goodrow?

This demonstrates Why NYR were a final 4 Cup contender and why our Leafs are 1st round pretenders because only a diehard Leafs fan would prefer Marner in the playoffs to another team that can dress quality & quantity of playoff performers.

PS. Remember Leafs put their playoff starting goalie Samsonov on waivers during the season with NO takers and thought he could lead them to a Stanley Cup.

Terrible argument. Goodrow shot 40%... and is somehow a folk hero.

He's not worth his money, and the NYR know this. It should be transparent to everyone. He had a lucky streak, never to be repeated again. He's less effective normally than Kampf, a guy most are discussing is a boat anchor at $2.4 million... but you'd love to have Goodrow at $3.64...

Goodrow is a <$1mil player, who had a good moment for NYR...

 

[TMLAM34]

Leafs trade Marner, Robertson, Liljegren, Hildeby + 1st(2025) to Seattle for Dunn, Wright, Daccord, Tanev

Leafs trade Tavares + Minten + 1st(2024) to Chicago for Seth Jones*
*Chicago retains 50%

Leafs sign Skjei, Dumba

Bertuzzi(5.5)/Matthews(13.5)/Cowan(1)
Knies(1)/Wright(1)/Nylander(11.5)
Tanev(3.5)/Domi(3)/Jarnkrok(4)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35)

Total forwards: 49.85

Skjei(6)/Dunn(7.35)
Rielly(7.5)/Jones(4.5)
McCabe(2)/Dumba(2)
*Benoit(1.5)

Daccord (1.2)
Woll (1)

Total = 82.9 (4.5 remaining)

The Leafs would be lucky to trade either Marner or Tavares let alone both.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

I wonder what it would cost to get Chychrun for one year. He's supposedly on the trading block. Very reasonable 4.6 cap hit and a bomb from the point.

Lily + prospect?

 

[Dreakmur]

Holmberg. Done.

So the guy who hasn’t even proven he can play the center ice position at the NHL level is going to take on some of the toughest minutes in the league next year? Bold strategy, Cotton.

 

[WTFMAN99]

So the guy who hasn’t even proven he can play the center ice position at the NHL level is going to take on some of the toughest minutes in the league next year? Bold strategy, Cotton.

Yeah, he actually looked better at wing this year and even then...he's pretty vanilla.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs preparing to make a push for Jake Guentzel?​

Frank Seravalli revealed on Tuesday that the Toronto Maple Leafs could make a strong push for pending UFA Jake Guentzel if they decide to trade Mitch Marner.​

With the media in a frenzy over what the Leafs, and GM Brad Treliving decide to do with Marner, different trades and theories have emerged. Some more liked than others and some that are out-of-the-box, so to speak. One of those was proposed by Daily FaceOff's Frank Seravalli today in his article that touched on a number of potential free agents come July first. Seravalli revealed that IF the Leafs could trade Marner before then that they would likely make a push for Guentzel.

The Leafs would bring in a known playoff performer in Guentzel, who has 38 goals 67 points in 69 playoff games and another trigger-man that would help the Leafs' power play..​

 

[rumman]

Been waiting years for Lilly to not shit himself against top 6 Forwards

This year he shat himself against 4th liners

Even a cat only has nine lives, time to move on……….

 

[JKG33]

Leafs trade Marner, Robertson, Liljegren, Hildeby + 1st(2025) to Seattle for Dunn, Wright, Daccord, Tanev

Leafs trade Tavares + Minten + 1st(2024) to Chicago for Seth Jones*
*Chicago retains 50%

Leafs sign Skjei, Dumba

Bertuzzi(5.5)/Matthews(13.5)/Cowan(1)
Knies(1)/Wright(1)/Nylander(11.5)
Tanev(3.5)/Domi(3)/Jarnkrok(4)
McMann(1)/Kampf(2.5)/Dewar(1)
*Reaves(1.35)

Total forwards: 49.85

Skjei(6)/Dunn(7.35)
Rielly(7.5)/Jones(4.5)
McCabe(2)/Dumba(2)
*Benoit(1.5)

Daccord (1.2)
Woll (1)

Total = 82.9 (4.5 remaining)

Those are laughably bad for Seattle and Chicago.

Seattle doesn't trade their #1 D-man signed long term. 1 for 1 for Marner. Let alone adding their #1G and some other nice pieces in exchange for spare parts.

Chicago isn't going to be retaining $4.5m for 6 years or whatever the term is without a massive overpayment

 

[Fogelhund]

I wonder what it would cost to get Chychrun for one year. He's supposedly on the trading block. Very reasonable 4.6 cap hit and a bomb from the point.

Lily + prospect?

Lily plus our first.... for a guy with a bomb from the point, but isn't very good at defending. The more I see of Chych, the less I'm interested.

 

[JKG33]

The Leafs preparing to make a push for Jake Guentzel?​

Frank Seravalli revealed on Tuesday that the Toronto Maple Leafs could make a strong push for pending UFA Jake Guentzel if they decide to trade Mitch Marner.​

​

With the media in a frenzy over what the Leafs, and GM Brad Treliving decide to do with Marner, different trades and theories have emerged. Some more liked than others and some that are out-of-the-box, so to speak. One of those was proposed by Daily FaceOff's Frank Seravalli today in his article that touched on a number of potential free agents come July first. Seravalli revealed that IF the Leafs could trade Marner before then that they would likely make a push for Guentzel.

The Leafs would bring in a known playoff performer in Guentzel, who has 38 goals 67 points in 69 playoff games and another trigger-man that would help the Leafs' power play..​

Just like I said a few weeks ago. Trade Marner, bring in Guentzel.

 

[Fogelhund]

The Leafs preparing to make a push for Jake Guentzel?​

Frank Seravalli revealed on Tuesday that the Toronto Maple Leafs could make a strong push for pending UFA Jake Guentzel if they decide to trade Mitch Marner.​

​

With the media in a frenzy over what the Leafs, and GM Brad Treliving decide to do with Marner, different trades and theories have emerged. Some more liked than others and some that are out-of-the-box, so to speak. One of those was proposed by Daily FaceOff's Frank Seravalli today in his article that touched on a number of potential free agents come July first. Seravalli revealed that IF the Leafs could trade Marner before then that they would likely make a push for Guentzel.

The Leafs would bring in a known playoff performer in Guentzel, who has 38 goals 67 points in 69 playoff games and another trigger-man that would help the Leafs' power play..​

Leafs main needs... D, G, C...

Media talks about... Guentzel, Domi, Bertuzzi.


Hopefully Management is smarter than the Media.

 

[thusk]

Dumping Lil for 2nd rounder may be a move that haunts you and the team down the line.

Give him another year.

Lilly is nothing more than a 6th d who can can play 12-16min at 5v5... He's not enough good offebsively to bring anything on PP, he's pretty bad on PK...

Sorry I just don't share your opinion on how critical this is for us. Two teams in the finals are rolling out absolute replacement level players as their 4Cs.

Edmonton having 3 Center ( Ryan, RNH, Henrique), Florida 4 ( Stenlund, Barkov, reinhart and Lundell) very solid in the defensive end even if they need to play a big amount of time in their zone and able to take faceoff.


Kampf is the only one in Toronto and maybe 2 with Matthews. Even if you're considerating is harder to win faceoff SH because a lot a faceoff had been won by winger who come and help the C to win it so 50/50 faceoff, team in PP having a huge advantage to win it. And if you lost it, you need player enough good to defend the next 20-60 against top opposite player and make play.

Toronto need to add player able to win faceoff and pretty solid in the defensive end, not withdraw the only player they had been good in this part of the game.