GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[4thline]

C production last year.

Jenner - 35 points
Sillinger - 32 points a new career high, after three seasons, following up an 11 point campaign.
Fantilli - 27 points
Johnson (playing wing) - 12 points.

Jenner is a good 3C. Johnson will be a winger. Fantilli and Sillinger haven't developed at the pace, where you can gamble your future on spending $30 mill on three wingers.... I mean, haven't we of all teams figured this crap out?

Pure fantasy, and Columbus would be stupid to even entertain such an idea.

A. So including Johnson in the deal wouldn't exactly be the lunacy of trading a C for a W then would it?
B. Laine doesn't have to be part of the future, he's only got two years left
C. Might their development be being hindered by lacking the correct wing support?

 

[The Management]

Marner for Saros in theory works decently well. I'm not super high on Saros but it's hard to argue his pedigree and his strong consistent, if not dominant, stats since entering the league. Nashville lacks any RW top end talent and after Forsberg, their overall talent is definitely very thin/average. There was a lot of smoke about shopping Saros but they kept winning and winning and they made the playoffs.

My problem is Saros' extension, just like I'm sure Nashville would be worried about Marners extension.

Yeah, that is a legitimate concern. I look at teams like Winnipeg and the Islanders that have invested heavily into their goaltending, and it hasn't exactly panned out for them. In the meantime, recent championships have been awarded to teams with "economy" net minding.

 

[SprDaVE]

We really need better puck movement from the back end, and somebody who can be a threat back there on the power play, to put the puck in the net. Pesce to play with Rielly is a solid add, but if you overpay Montour for his skillset, it leaves us lean on funds to add up front. We need more of a threat on line 3

Yep. We had so many issues making plays out of the zone, especially in the later part of the season. Once we did gain possession in the offensive zone, it was horrible to watch the D try to make any sort of play.

I'm not really as high on Pesce as some in here but any sort of quality RHD upgrade will probably be very good whichever way they go. The Leafs need to get it right, unlike their Klingberg bet.

As for upfront, just lean heavily on your young forwards instead of dumping money into average wingers. Look at the bargain bin for a veteran/decent player that can give you solid minutes and efficiency if you have to.

 

[Fogelhund]

A. So including Johnson in the deal wouldn't exactly be the lunacy of trading a C for a W then would it?
B. Laine doesn't have to be part of the future, he's only got two years left
C. Might their development be being hindered by lacking the correct wing support?

I'd love to get Fantilli but I wonder if CBJ would want to send Laine back.

@4thline - the point of all of this discussion, is that them trading for a winger, and tieing up $30 mil in wingers, when they have no developed decent C's, is lunacy. If they make a trade, it should be for a C. You could probably make a better argument that Tavares would be more attractive to them.
B. Only TWO years left... with wingers making $30 milll... no.
C. and we get back to the main point, trading for a winger, no matter what they send back, doesn't make sense. They have Gaudreau... a very good winger. They have Laine... who is umm.. well inconsistent at best. Their wingers area already good enough and aren't holding back the C's.... The C depth just isn't good, nor developed.

@ToneDog As has been discussed here, Columbus is devoid of C's. Sending Fantilli in such a deal would be an absolutely non-starter for them.

 

[4thline]

@4thline - the point of all of this discussion, is that them trading for a winger, and tieing up $30 mil in wingers, when they have no developed decent C's, is lunacy. If they make a trade, it should be for a C. You could probably make a better argument that Tavares would be more attractive to them.
B. Only TWO years left... with wingers making $30 milll... no.
C. and we get back to the main point, trading for a winger, no matter what they send back, doesn't make sense. They have Gaudreau... a very good winger. They have Laine... who is umm.. well inconsistent at best. Their wingers area already good enough and aren't holding back the C's.... The C depth just isn't good, nor developed.

They're going to have cap space, they want to be in the playoffs, they're investing in developing Fantilli and Sillinger, the d corps is full. Something has to give. Maybe they give up/press pause on developing Sillinger as a C. Maybe they give them better support

"the wingers are already good enough and aren't holding back the C's"?
Really? Gaudreau is a nice offensive piece, but not great defensively. Laine was there for 18 games as a shell of himself. Marchenko is maybe a top 6 level guy. The rest are nice young 3rd wheels with upside. Not exactly "help" to the young guy you're hoping to be the franchise C facing tough matchups.

Let's just say, it makes sense for them to cash out of some young assets, and have the cap space to add a big piece. Where they do it depends on how they see their young guys developing. If they believe in Fantilli/Sillinger turing the corner as 1-2 C then a Selke level core winger could be on the radar. If they don't- yes a C makes more sense.

 

[mydnyte]

Marner for Saros in theory works decently well. I'm not super high on Saros but it's hard to argue his pedigree and his strong consistent, if not dominant, stats since entering the league. Nashville lacks any RW top end talent and after Forsberg, their overall talent is definitely very thin/average. There was a lot of smoke about shopping Saros but they kept winning and winning and they made the playoffs.

My problem is Saros' extension, just like I'm sure Nashville would be worried about Marners extension.

Marner for Askarov + 'works' for Saros, never ever.
why would we trade a 100 foot, 100 point, all situations player for a 'small' goalie who just dosnt perform well in the playoffs.

 

[SprDaVE]

Marner for Askarov + 'works' for Saros, never ever.
why would we trade a 100 foot, 100 point, all situations player for a 'small' goalie who just dosnt perform well in the playoffs.

Recency bias is part of the problem here. He wasn't great against Vancouver by any means, but in 15 playoff games between 2017-2018 and 2020-2021 he had a .930% save percentage average and a 2.09 GAA. Hell even in these past playoffs his GAA was 2.09 but his save percentage was .900 -- playing up against the best Western team this season.

Goaltenders are fairly voodoo and volatile but Saros has been consistently a great goaltender on a very bad/average Nashville team. Askarov has plenty of potential I'm sure but young goaltenders don't always pan out either.

 

[aingefan]

Joshua.


Where's that coming from?

Was Joshua playing C or wing?

 

[mydnyte]

Recency bias is part of the problem here. He wasn't great against Vancouver by any means, but in 15 playoff games between 2017-2018 and 2020-2021 he had a .930% save percentage average and a 2.09 GAA. Hell even in these past playoffs his GAA was 2.09 but his save percentage was .900 -- playing up against the best Western team this season.

Goaltenders are fairly voodoo and volatile but Saros has been consistently a great goaltender on a very bad/average Nashville team. Askarov has plenty of potential I'm sure but young goaltenders don't always pan out either.

his stats arent bad, his results are. the Preds have had one of the best defense and defensive systems through his entire time there, and he cant make the important saves.
He's an outstanding goalie, but like Helly and Sorokin, not as great in the playoffs.

I didnt like the Preds chances vs Demko, but, when Vancouver got to their 3rd string goalie and the Preds still got out goalied, thats saying something, and we dont have a Josi leading our D.

 

[SprDaVE]

his stats arent bad, his results are. the Preds have had one of the best defense and defensive systems through his entire time there, and he cant make the important saves.
He's an outstanding goalie, but like Helly and Sorokin, not as great in the playoffs.

I didnt like the Preds chances vs Demko, but, when Vancouver got to their 3rd string goalie and the Preds still got out goalied, thats saying something, and we dont have a Josi leading our D.

That's like blaming Woll or Samsonov because the Leafs can't score more than 2 goals a game in the playoffs or scoring 1 powerplay goal. I feel like their roster was fairly weak upfront, now and back then. Defensively they were good sure -- but his stats speak for themselves, especially this season. One could argue he was their MVP next to Forsberg.

Either way, I think it's definitely a good gamble if the Leafs want to shuffle their core, make changes and cut cap space.

 

[mydnyte]

That's like blaming Woll or Samsonov because the Leafs can't score more than 2 goals a game in the playoffs or scoring 1 powerplay goal. I feel like their roster was fairly weak upfront, now and back then. Defensively they were good sure -- but his stats speak for themselves, especially this season. One could argue he was their MVP next to Forsberg.

Either way, I think it's definitely a good gamble if the Leafs want to shuffle their core, make changes and cut cap space.

I dont think we can even afford a big name goalie.
we need to spend the majority of all our cap space on a min of 2 top UFA defenders, and that may take most of our space. signing only 1 defender will put us back in a sinking ship no matter who is in net, Soros, Markstom, etc.

 

[SprDaVE]

I dont think we can even afford a big name goalie.
we need to spend the majority of all our cap space on a min of 2 top UFA defenders, and that may take most of our space. signing only 1 defender will put us back in a sinking ship no matter who is in net, Soros, Markstom, etc.

We can afford a big name goaltender if Marner is traded. The Leafs aren't completely maxed in cap space out nor do they need 30M of cap space on defense either.

If we stick to the hypothetical that Saros for Marner straight up works for both teams, Leafs opened up about 5M of cap space and secured their goaltending for at least next season. This gives you enough money to quite easily add 2 top defenseman in free agency and probably even go after a forward.

Saros is durable and consistent. He's played a ton of games there. Maybe he falters on a different team, maybe he just regresses super badly. Maybe he's just ok. Maybe he wins the Vezina. I don't know. In 1 off-seasons from now -- Tavares is a UFA which opens up even more money to either re-sign Saros or figure something out.

 

[seanlinden]

I see a lot of people talking about defensive upgrades and I'm certainly not opposed to a top 4 upgrade but the problem with this team is scoring during the playoffs

It's ******* pathetic, tons of offensive talent and it produces jack **** when it counts and the secondary scoring is non existent

If we trade Marner I think we should prioritize a scoring center and some net front guys, those are definitely holes on the roster imo

Teams can be coached to make what should be problems appear as strengths. The problem is, it usually creates a problem in another area.

The Leafs were defensive stalwarts throughout pretty much all of games 5, 6, and 7.... the way they accomplished that is by keeping the game tight checking, clogging up the middle of the ice, and generally not over-comitting or trying to "stretch" the game out. Boston, more than happy to keep the game that way knowing that if the ice opens up, Toronto should have the advantage.

But, it's not like Jeremy Swayman was standing on his head during that those games. Yes, the leafs were outshooting them, but these weren't odd man rushes or very high percentage chances.

You look at the personnel the Leafs put out there for the majority of the series -- one of Lyubushkin, Edmundson, or Benoit on the ice at basically all times. If the Leafs can put together a D that includes player which are both big and solid defensively, but can make a solid first pass and do something at the point, it would go a long way to helping the Leafs be able to open up games a little, get odd man rushes, and make their forwards a little more effective.

Hampus Lindholm was a great addition for the Bs. He and Carlo made a perfect playoff pairing. Think McCabe-Benoit on steriods; both playing their natural sides. Brett Pesce should be at the top of the list for the Leafs this summer and an ideal partner for either Rielly or McCabe; although I don't think he'd be willing to sign in Toronto.

 

[mydnyte]

We can afford a big name goaltender if Marner is traded. The Leafs aren't completely maxed in cap space out nor do they need 30M of cap space on defense either.

If we stick to the hypothetical that Saros for Marner straight up works for both teams, Leafs opened up about 5M of cap space and secured their goaltending for at least next season. This gives you enough money to quite easily add 2 top defenseman in free agency and probably even go after a forward.

Saros is durable and consistent. He's played a ton of games there. Maybe he falters on a different team, maybe he just regresses super badly. Maybe he's just ok. Maybe he wins the Vezina. I don't know. In 1 off-seasons from now -- Tavares is a UFA which opens up even more money to either re-sign Saros or figure something out.

the only way i move Marner is for younger #1D potential dman, or a future 'star' goalie ala Askarov or Wallstedt ...Wings have 2 of the top goalie prospects (though too young for now) and a ton of young nhl ready prospects, and can be a team to target i.e. ask for Cossa and Pellikka for Marner.
We have the depth to wait, and the Wings have Augustine who may be as good or better (younger too) than Cossa ...honestly, I'd start by asking for Sieder straight up, but, Det would be nuts to do that deal

​

 

[TMLAM34]

the only way i move Marner is for younger #1D potential dman, or a future 'star' goalie ala Askarov or Wallstedt ...Wings have 2 of the top goalie prospects (though too young for now) and a ton of young nhl ready prospects, and can be a team to target i.e. ask for Cossa and Pellikka for Marner.
We have the depth to wait, and the Wings have Augustine who may be as good or better (younger too) than Cossa ...honestly, I'd start by asking for Sieder straight up, but, Det would be nuts to do that deal

​

Yeah no chance they move Seider for Marner.

 

[JKG33]

Yeah no chance they move Seider for Marner.

Reading various threads on here... there's gunna be a lot of disappointment if the reality of a Marner trade hits.

Soft wingers with a full NTC who disappear in the playoffs and only have 1 year left don't get the kind of returns a lot of people are expecting here. These valuations look to be about 5 years too late

 

[dubplatepressure]

Reading various threads on here... there's gunna be a lot of disappointment if the reality of a Marner trade hits.

Soft wingers with a full NTC who disappear in the playoffs and only have 1 year left don't get the kind of returns a lot of people are expecting here. These valuations look to be about 5 years too late

IMO its going to be a quantity-for-quality move - we aren't getting a marquee single player back. I'm fine with that.

 

[JKG33]

IMO its going to be a quantity-for-quality move - we aren't getting a marquee single player back. I'm fine with that.

Pretty much. I'd be surprised if there was a single asset as valuable as a top 10 1st or Shane Wright. It'll be a late first and prospect or two kinda trade.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Was Joshua playing C or wing?

Wing, with Lindholm.

 

[Rare Jewel]

With potentially Pesce, Chatfield, and DeAngelo leaving Carolina

A Kotkaniemi for Liljegren deal may make sense.

 

[VanW27]

Pretty much. I'd be surprised if there was a single asset as valuable as a top 10 1st or Shane Wright. It'll be a late first and prospect or two kinda trade.

I've been saying the same. Mid first and good but not top prospect is likely the area people should be looking at

May not be exactly that but that type of value.

 

[rumman]

Trade marmer. Sign Lindholm, tanev and zadorov.

Cap space can fix a lot of problems with this team, just need to trade a couple of high cap players………

 

[rumman]

Marner+ what for Pettersson? Playoff performers.

No thank you, don’t need another Nylander……..

 

[rumman]

I'd love to get Fantilli but I wonder if CBJ would want to send Laine back.

Laine’s the last guy I’d want as a return for Marner from the Blue Jackets……..

 

[SprDaVE]

With potentially Pesce, Chatfield, and DeAngelo leaving Carolina

A Kotkaniemi for Liljegren deal may make sense.

Chatfield would be an underrated pick up, especially if the Leafs move on from Liljegren.