GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Martin Skoula]

I wouldn't be so quick to identify Marner as a problem. It was kind of the opposite of his current perception before his signed his extension. Unless they fully explore that and try to fix it, I don't think it's a good idea to to scapegoat him.

If his dad wants to be a bitch and make this into a whole drama, then I'm with you. But if he's willing to quietly sign a Nylander extension then I think he offers a lot of value.

The thing is he needs usage that only a handful of wingers like Kane, Panarin, Kucherov get to be effective. If he was used like Rantanen he’d be an 80-something point guy, very few wingers are the focal point of the breakout, the ozone structure, the powerplay, the PK, etc. You can’t hide Marner on a middle 6 line and have him burn secondary defensive pairings like you can with a Nylander or a Kessel, he needs a very specific and expensive set of factors designed around his game to be effective. Nylander is going to get 20 goals worth of breakaways no matter who he’s with or who’s getting the most touches, Marner needs to be The Guy on the Xs and Os with the right kinds of linemates. When the playoffs roll around and he inevitably starts playing scared, all those systems that depend on him crumble and we lose the special teams battle and his line can’t set up offensively at ES.

We depend on him for too many elements of our game, but if we didn’t depend on him so much his contributions would be worth 9mil max, it’s a bit of a double edged sword. If you keep using him in a way that makes his contract worth it, you keep running the risk that the other team intimidates him in the playoffs and neutralizes both special teams + 20 minutes of ES a night.

 

[LaPlante94]

I remember the good old days when you couldn't win with 4 forwards taking to much of the cap

Now I've noticed it's migrated to 3 highly paid forwards?

Can someone tell me when we've actually tried having only 3 highly paid forwards because over the last half a decade we've tried it with 4 of them not 3

In fact we haven't even tried 3 yet so I'd like to know why everybody is certain it just won't work? Or is it just Marner is a p***y and has to go because obviously somebody needs to be scapegoated?

I mean we have 20M to spend this off-season, Tavares is gone next off-season and we have guys like Cowan, Grebyonkin, Minten, Hildeby and Niemela coming to join the likes of Knies, McMann, Holmberg and Robertson who are young and cheap

That doesn't look that bad to me if you are looking to build a deep team who doesn't rely on its stars as much

We have tried with 3. Matthews, Marner and Tavares. Nylander isn't a highly paid forward. He will be starting next season and if we keep Marner we will be playing with 4 players making 11+ mil. It's been a disaster and the biggest waste of this core playing with 3 guys making 11 mil so why would we want to run it back and try again with 4 guys doing it? It's been said many times Marner is not a scapegoat, he's just simply in the last year of his deal and his value is much more than Tavares and easier to move. If this core actually made improvements and had some playoff success I doubt this is as big of an issue, but they can't even escape the 1st round and Marner becomes a ghost when the series gets past games 3-4. If Marner was a C maybe people wouldn't have issues with it, but having 2 wingers making 11+ mil is just not a recipe for success.

It's time to start spending money on our defence and depth scoring. Lili is the same age now that Dunn started to really breakout so I wouldn't mind if we signed him long term so we can finally get someone on a long term deal that's a steal. Can see him scoring 10+ goals and being a 40-50 point guy soon. Got a few FA defenders we should be targeting also to pair with Rielly and maybe Lili if they want to keep Benoit and McCabe together on the 3rd pair.

 

[Kiwi]

We have tried with 3. Matthews, Marner and Tavares. Nylander isn't a highly paid forward. He will be starting next season and if we keep Marner we will be playing with 4 players making 11+ mil. It's been a disaster and the biggest waste of this core playing with 3 guys making 11 mil so why would we want to run it back and try again with 4 guys doing it? It's been said many times Marner is not a scapegoat, he's just simply in the last year of his deal and his value is much more than Tavares and easier to move. If this core actually made improvements and had some playoff success I doubt this is as big of an issue, but they can't even escape the 1st round and Marner becomes a ghost when the series gets past games 3-4. If Marner was a C maybe people wouldn't have issues with it, but having 2 wingers making 11+ mil is just not a recipe for success.

It's time to start spending money on our defence and depth scoring. Lili is the same age now that Dunn started to really breakout so I wouldn't mind if we signed him long term so we can finally get someone on a long term deal that's a steal. Can see him scoring 10+ goals and being a 40-50 point guy soon. Got a few FA defenders we should be targeting also to pair with Rielly and maybe Lili if they want to keep Benoit and McCabe together on the 3rd pair.

Hold up, it's always been our cap allocation to the big 4 up front, we can't sink that much cap % on 4 guys in the one area of the team

That was pretty much always the argument so let's not play pretend now
We had 4 guys making over 50% of the cap

Tavares is going to be gone or taking a massive paycut soon, we have 20M to spend right now and another huge whack of money next off-season, the cap is rising and we actually have a decent number of young cheap reinforcements coming

The Marner stuff just looks like scapegoating to me, fine get rid of him for penny's on the dollar but just remember things can be much much worse than this

 

[Jozay]

I remember the good old days when you couldn't win with 4 forwards taking to much of the cap

Now I've noticed it's migrated to 3 highly paid forwards?

Can someone tell me when we've actually tried having only 3 highly paid forwards because over the last half a decade we've tried it with 4 of them not 3

In fact we haven't even tried 3 yet so I'd like to know why everybody is certain it just won't work? Or is it just Marner is a p***y and has to go because obviously somebody needs to be scapegoated?

I mean we have 20M to spend this off-season, Tavares is gone next off-season and we have guys like Cowan, Grebyonkin, Minten, Hildeby and Niemela coming to join the likes of Knies, McMann, Holmberg and Robertson who are young and cheap

That doesn't look that bad to me if you are looking to build a deep team who doesn't rely on its stars as much

The problem with this is that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander arent good enough.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I'm also pre-worried about the 2025 draft. It's sad to see we've mortgaged all of our picks and don't have anything to show for it. Hope we can recover at least a 2nd or something so it's not a lost draft

 

[pspot]

Matthews, marner , nylander
#1 d , Reilly
#1 goalie

Is something you could build a contender around

 

[rumman]

Sign Brownie in the offseason and bring him home.

You can never go home………

 

[TheShape]

I'm also pre-worried about the 2025 draft. It's sad to see we've mortgaged all of our picks and don't have anything to show for it. Hope we can recover at least a 2nd or something so it's not a lost draft

Premature, but we'll recoup a 1st by then, one is definitely coming in any Marner return. Do we spend that acquired 1st by 2025 is the real question.

 

[rumman]

Probably sign Kapanen for the same money or less and he's a better player, not that I want him either

They need to find new faces who can help, not retreads that didn’t make a difference when they were here imo…….

Seems like a great market for him. Solid team with some upside, friendly fans, low pressure, golf year round. Next to Vegas might be the best market for him.

Might even get a shot at a guest appearance on Hee Haw………

 

[rumman]

Leafs need a:

Williams
Tucker
Corson
Roberts
or dreaming
Clark

I’d counter they are in more need of a:
Rouse
Glennie
Lefebvre
Brewer
Or dreaming
Salming

 

[TMLAM34]

If there is any truth to the Marner to Vegas rumours, hopefully we can try and pluck one of their center prospects like Matyas Sapovaliv.

To Toronto: Shea Theodore + Logan Thompson + Matyas Sapovaliv

To Vegas: Mitch Marner + Noah Gregor

Good opportunity to flip a winger for a solid center prospect.

 

[Tony Romo]

Guys as much as we need to improve the defence and goaltending... You still need to score in games to win. So trading Marner for a dman is great and all, but you can't replace him even with his flaws with Nick Robertson on the 2nd line

 

[ULF_55]

I’d counter they are in more need of a:
Rouse
Glennie
Lefebvre
Brewer
Or dreaming
Salming

I think the top 3-4 are doable, the last would be close to a miracle.

I'd take Prime Salming over several of the recent winners this list.

NHL James Norris Memorial Trophy Winners | NHL.com

Award for best defenseman first presented in 1954

www.nhl.com

 

[ULF_55]

Guys as much as we need to improve the defence and goaltending... You still need to score in games to win. So trading Marner for a dman is great and all, but you can't replace him even with his flaws with Nick Robertson on the 2nd line

I'm hoping no one is thinking Robertson is going to replace marner's contributions.

Fractions can be many sizes, so fractionally he might, just trying to determine that fraction, 57-61% with increased opportunity? The issue is Matthews would need a veteran on his left wing, and not sure who that would be? I feel, Robertson would get eaten alive against top defensive lines.

I don't see top line talent in Robertson, more middle 6 sheltering.

I've see, Bertuzzi-Matthews-Domi proposals, but I don't see Bertuzzi and Domi being first line players, even though they've seen time there.

Bertuzzi's 30 goal season seems like an aberration not expectation. He's a middle 6 player.
Domi's a setup man, so maybe that works with Matthews, but is Knies ready for 1st. line duty?

I don't see marner leaving anyway, so moot point.

 

[TMLAM34]

Guys as much as we need to improve the defence and goaltending... You still need to score in games to win. So trading Marner for a dman is great and all, but you can't replace him even with his flaws with Nick Robertson on the 2nd line

Let’s say Marner is a 100 point player, you’d be getting Theodore who can contribute 50% of Marner’s offensive point production already from a position of weakness within the roster. You’d be getting a number 1 goaltender to form a pretty damn good tandem with Woll for years to come so your GAA will hopefully go down. You get almost 5 million in cap space to be able to re-sign Bertuzzi who could give you 50 points a season. Replacing Marner’s offensive production shouldn’t be too big of an issue. His defensive side of the game is the harder part to replace IMO.

 

[Tony Romo]

Let’s say Marner is a 100 point player, you’d be getting Theodore who can contribute 50% of Marner’s offensive point production already from a position of weakness within the roster. You’d be getting a number 1 goaltender to form a pretty damn good tandem with Woll for years to come so your GAA will hopefully go down. You get almost 5 million in cap space to be able to re-sign Bertuzzi who could give you 50 points a season. Replacing Marner’s offensive production shouldn’t be too big of an issue. His defensive side of the game is the harder part to replace IMO.

We average a goal a game in elimination games. We could have peak Dominik Hasek in net and it still wouldn't be good enough to win games with how we score.

Don't think trading Marner for Theodore, adding a #1 goalie and bringing back Bertuzzi, helps our scoring issues.

 

[TMLAM34]

We average a goal a game in elimination games. We could've have peak Dominik Hasek in net and it still wouldn't be good enough to win games with how we score.

And can you tell me what Marner has done in those elimination games?

 

[Tony Romo]

And can you tell me what Marner has done in those elimination games?

All I said is you can't trade Marner and not look to seriously upgrade the forward core.. With Marner or without marner the issue will still be scoring in the playoffs unless you expect your newly acquired goalie to pitch a shutout every game.

 

[ULF_55]

So why is Theodore always injured?

 

[TMLAM34]

All I said is you can't trade Marner and not look to seriously upgrade the forward core.. With Marner or without marner the issue will still be scoring in the playoffs unless you expect your newly acquired goalie to pitch a shutout every game.

Why are you completely disregarding the fact you’re getting one of the better offensive defencemen in the league?

Not to mention the extra 5 million in cap space you now have? I already mentioned re-signing Bertuzzi with that money but you can go out and sign Stephenson and address the second line center position now too.

I know I’d rather have Theodore, Stephenson and Thompson over Marner for an extra million or two towards our cap.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The problem with this is that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander arent good enough.

Exactly.

It's not just that they take up too much of the cap. It's that they take up too much of the cap *AND* they are massive underachievers.

 

[ULF_55]

All I said is you can't trade Marner and not look to seriously upgrade the forward core.. With Marner or without marner the issue will still be scoring in the playoffs unless you expect your newly acquired goalie to pitch a shutout every game.

Leafs draft players every year.

Berube didn't have any issue playing youngsters in his previous stops.

They need to get some offense out of all their lines, not just from 3 players (Nylander, Matthews and Tavares).

 

[ULF_55]

The problem with this is that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander arent good enough.

The problem is Nylander, Tavares and Matthews can't be the only goal scorers.

Leafs need a threat from some other players, and it hasn't happened. Stop those 3 and there are no goals.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Hot take: all of the Leafs’ issues to make the a perfect contender can’t be fixed in one offseason.

What they can do is still put together a competitive team that might make a run, while also positioning themselves to leverage Tavares and Marner’s contracts off the books next offseason.

They need to avoid bogging the cap down with mediocre players on poor mid to long term contracts.

What the Leafs do have in house are some nice forward prospects on the wing. Plan to reallocate money into the blue line, with another top 9 centre, and goaltending.

 

[shortfuze]

All I said is you can't trade Marner and not look to seriously upgrade the forward core.. With Marner or without marner the issue will still be scoring in the playoffs unless you expect your newly acquired goalie to pitch a shutout every game.

The coach relied on the stars to much and they failed, badly. My opinion it isn’t and offence issue it’s bad coaching when you continuosly send those guys out on the power play and they flop, as example. A few key moves and Toronto is right there.