GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[OVO16]

I generally agree with all your posts but no way in hell am I paying Marner $12+m. Ship has sailed.

As for the Panthers they got over the hump once they dumped their Marner and brought in Tkachuk.

Problem is I dont think there's a Tkachuk out there for Marner

An established player with similar talents

 

[ToneDog]

I'm more stunned too see that you are failing to see Tavares for his money and what he's provided us last season, this season and next season is the one who is destroying the cap.

They signed Tavares believing they would win a Cup within the first 4 years. He has jumped the shark but he might be resigned cheap. Marner will walk for free because they will not be extending him so you have to trade him. If you read between the lines, it is what Shanny said and what the media have been discussing since.

 

[OVO16]

If we're gonna bring it back, atleast dump Kampf and Jarnkrok. I can see the Penguins being interested in Kampf, with Jeff Carter officially retired

Bertuzzi - Mathews - Domi
Knies - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Laughton - Nylander
Trenin - Dewar - Reaves
Holmberg

That's a forward group I'd be ok with next season. God combination of Skill, size, speed and grit

 

[TheGreenTBer]

They signed Tavares believing they would win a Cup within the first 4 years. He has jumped the shark but he might be resigned cheap. Marner will walk for free because they will not be extending him so you have to trade him. If you read between the lines, it is what Shanny said and what the media have been discussing since.

If we re-sign Tavares I am going to put this forum on ignore for a few days because I would be completely insufferable otherwise. In order for the culture to truly change he is a necessary departure. The Tavares era was a failure, period.

 

[ToneDog]

Problem is I dont think there's a Tkachuk out there for Marner

An established player with similar talents

Agreed but that is no reason to keep all your money tied up in three players who have not been able to get over the hump in 8 playoffs at the cost of goaltending and defence.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't get it, are we giving him character points for accepting a higher salary than what he would have received with hiss TML extension?

I suppose he could have taken less to stick it to the Leafs?

Yeah not understanding what the 'character move' was in this situation.

 

[ToneDog]

If we re-sign Tavares I am going to put this forum on ignore for a few days because I would be completely insufferable otherwise. In order for the culture to truly change he is a necessary departure. The Tavares era was a failure, period.

Tavares might be better under Berube. Let's see how much he has left next year before we decide whether to resign him or not. Personally I have no problem with him on LW at the right number.

 

[Fogelhund]

Agreed but that is no reason to keep all your money tied up in three players who have not been able to get over the hump in 8 playoffs at the cost of goaltending and defence.

That's the bottom line. It hasn't worked out, so time for a change. Move the one who has done the least amount of growing, in the ways that you've asked... and replace them with a new cast of players.... try to improve the team overall.

Tavares might be better under Berube. Let's see how much he has left next year before we decide whether to resign him or not. Personally I have no problem with him on LW at the right number.

Or at 3C perhaps... depends on the price...

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Tavares might be better under Berube. Let's see how much he has left next year before we decide whether to resign him or not. Personally I have no problem with him on LW at the right number.

I can think of maybe a handful of assets on this team I legitimately would want to keep going forward at most. I'd dump everything else for futures if I could.

However, that's not realistic. What is realistic is moving on from 1 or 2 of them over the span of a few years. Tavares and Marner are the obvious choices because of their contract status, but also because of their play and what they represent. Tavares, being the oldest, slowest and least effective one of the group, absolutely needs to get the f*** out.

 

[Fogelhund]

I can think of maybe a handful of assets on this team I legitimately would want to keep going forward at most. I'd dump everything else for futures if I could.

However, that's not realistic. What is realistic is moving on from 1 or 2 of them over the span of a few years. Tavares and Marner are the obvious choices because of their contract status, but also because of their play and what they represent. Tavares, being the oldest, slowest and least effective one of the group, absolutely needs to get the f*** out.

What they represent to you individually is completely irrelevant. Whether players can help the team win, or not, including what their cost is... that's relevant. If Tavares can come in at a lowish cap hit, and be better than the 3C on the other team, it's a win, no matter whether that hurts your feelings or not.

 

[rumman]

Tavares might be better under Berube. Let's see how much he has left next year before we decide whether to resign him or not. Personally I have no problem with him on LW at the right number.

forget his salary, JT can't be on the first two lines this upcoming season............

 

[SprDaVE]

Maybe they won't want to trade Wright... that's possible... but then their roster was ok to begin with, and trading Wright and a pick doesn't affect their roster at all... no subtractions, just additions. Trading Oleksiak, Larsson, etc... some of the other names listed... well that leaves a hole in their roster, and this doesn't.... of course, it takes away futures for sure... but for a team that would like to make an impact now, in a new city.... this is definitely a help now move, with no negatives to the roster.

Here is a Seattle fans blog, specifically talking/debating about trading for Marner, Wright and the 1st....

Sound Debate - Should the Seattle Kraken trade for Mitch Marner? - Sound Of Hockey

With rumors swirling in Toronto of a potential shake up, John and Darren discuss the potential for the Kraken to pursue Mitch Marner.

soundofhockey.com

Which ever way to go I think they are a great partner for this kind of trade. Not sure if Ron Francis is the kind of aggressive GM to pull it off, but maybe with his seat getting hot he might be willing to risk adding a star player for more than we're expecting.

Also free agency is right around the corner, and they have plenty of cap even if they add Marner. They can put that out to free agents like "Hey, we're going for it -- good opportunity here" etc.

 

[pspot]

I just listened to the Berube presser , I don't think they are moving anyone big now

 

[Mickey Marner]

On a guy like Wright, have you even paid attention to what he did last year, or???

15 points in his last 16 AHL games, 5 points in 8 NHL games?

The perception issue on Wright, is that he was long thought of as the #1 OA player in his draft. So people compare him to that expectation, which he's never going to live up to. But, he's likely going to be a decent 2C in the NHL, and the last half of the year, his play really picked up.

We could really use a future 2C... and Seattle absolutely needs an elite winger.

You trade for Wright, and their 2024 1st... likely pick up Sam Dickinson 6'3" LD from London.

You've got two very good cost controlled assets, for a decade.. Wright steps in next year. Dickinson within a year or two. You've cleared cap room, and can address other areas of the roster.





The foundation of Dickinson’s game is his mobility. It’s rare to find a defender who moves as well as Dickinson does at 6’3. It was no surprise to see him dominate the on-ice testing at the CHL Top Prospect’s Game; he’s a spectacular athlete. Thanks to his effortless skating stride, Dickinson is an impactful player at both ends of the ice and is able to play aggressively, with and without the puck.

Scout's Analysis: Prospects of interest at the Memorial Cup

London, Drummondville, Moose Jaw and host Saginaw will compete at the Memorial Cup beginning on Friday. Scout Jason Bukala will be there, and writes about a few prospects he's most interested in viewing.

www.sportsnet.ca

Sam Dickinson, D, 6-foot-3, 199 pounds
Draft Eligible: 68GP-18G-52A | Playoffs: 18GP-4G-9A

Dickinson is one of the top ranked defencemen for the 2024 NHL Draft. He's a player who doesn't look like is moving quickly, but it's due to his effortless stride. He brings a combination of size, skill, and open ice transitional pace.

Dickinson logged a ton of ice time for the London Knights in regular season play and the playoffs. He's deployed in all situations. Despite his stature he isn't overly physical. He's more of a "bumper" than a "punisher". He can be elusive walking the offensive blue line and directing pucks on net or joining the rush as an extra layer.

NHL Projection: Top pairing defenceman

They’re not going to trade Wright and 8th overall though. Maybe you get one of them, more likely 8th. Guys like Rehkopf and Firkus are both 1st round talents in a re-draft, but won’t be valued as high because they were second round picks, so the initial investment to get them was smaller.

There will be an unusual amount of fluctuation in the 2021 & 2022 drafts because almost everybody missed a year of hockey. In a 2021 redraft Johnston and Stankoven are probably both top-10 picks, but Dallas drafted them at 23 and 47. Meanwhile Columbus took Johnson, Sillinger and Ceulemans at 5, 12 and 25 and they’re all struggling to justify their draft position. Two years ago everyone would take the Columbus trio over the Dallas duo, but today you’d be mocked for doing so.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

If we don't bring back Bertuzzi, I want Debrusk

Fast, good hands, can score, plays a feisty game, good on PK

I would be okay with this too. Another guy is Brandon Saad. Berube liked him on the Blues so I wouldn't be shocked if he wants him here too. Scored 26 last year. He's still a feisty, net-front presence. His cap hit is 4 million. Probably a little less than Debrusk and Bert. I feel as though the Blues may trade him because they're rebuilding and may want a cheaper player with potential (e.g., Robinson or Lily).

 

[TheGreenTBer]

What they represent to you individually is completely irrelevant. Whether players can help the team win, or not, including what their cost is... that's relevant. If Tavares can come in at a lowish cap hit, and be better than the 3C on the other team, it's a win, no matter whether that hurts your feelings or not.

If I'm being too emotional, you're being too simplistic and neglecting context.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[SprDaVE]

If we don't bring back Bertuzzi, I want Debrusk

Fast, good hands, can score, plays a feisty game, good on PK

I have strong Josh Anderson vibes from DeBrusk. He seems to show up against the Leafs but typically he's pretty average. Not the most feisty or physical player either. It would really depend on the contract but based on our needs -- he'd be far down my list of priorities.

 

[pspot]

I have strong Josh Anderson vibes from DeBrusk. He seems to show up against the Leafs but typically he's pretty average. Not the most feisty or physical player either. It would really depend on the contract but based on our needs -- he'd be far down my list of priorities.

agree, but still think Leafs will overpay him. Type of player they need, second generation guy

My guess now is we don't see any big moves, will probably trade Lil and then move the chairs around again with FA signings, something like

DeBrusk, Jake	5	$5,250,000
Pesce, Brett	5	$5,000,000
Edmundson, Joel	3	$2,850,000
Brossoit, Laurent	3	$1,850,000
Domi, Max	5	$3,550,000

 

[Dion TheFluff]

I just listened to the Berube presser , I don't think they are moving anyone big now

what'd he say?

 

[pspot]

what'd he say?

he basically chose the leafs job cause they have great players

 

[Torontonian]

Problem is I dont think there's a Tkachuk out there for Marner

An established player with similar talents

The other issue everyone seems to ignore, players like Tkchuck are limited.

Brady Tkchuck
Matt Tkchuck
Tom Wilson.

Thats the list of players like them in the NHL that were/are good and how they play.

Agreed but that is no reason to keep all your money tied up in three players who have not been able to get over the hump in 8 playoffs at the cost of goaltending and defence.

Toronto isn't tied up in three players only though. Can Toronto win with big money tied up to 3 people? (34,16,88). It's possible, can they win with the money tied up how it is currently, doesn't look like it (34,88,91,16)

Having Tavares on the roster with what he brings, (I agree Toronto needed to win in the first 4 years of his deal) is truly the killer. We are paying our 2nd line center 6m over what a normal second line center makes, That extra 6m is essentially another top 6F, or a top 4dman, or a good starting goalie.

Shipping Marner out because of the Tavares issue doesn't make sense when the Tavares issue is gone after this upcoming season. I will maintain Toronto should extend Marner, ride out the season (they'll still make the playoffs) and then use the 11m to change the team once Tavares is FA.

 

[Fogelhund]

Shipping Marner out because of the Tavares issue doesn't make sense when the Tavares issue is gone after this upcoming season. I will maintain Toronto should extend Marner, ride out the season (they'll still make the playoffs) and then use the 11m to change the team once Tavares is FA.

The Leafs have identified player(s) who haven't moved the ball forward enough..... they will likely be moved, if they can.... Speculation is that's Marner.



Brendan Shanahan

Our playoff results have not been good enough. That is on me. The results that we have had in the playoffs—our players know, I know, we know—are unacceptable. They are unacceptable to our fans. They are unacceptable to all those who support the Toronto Maple Leafs.

We analyze at the end of every season. We look at our team, and we look forward. We look for ways to be better. We do that every year. In the past, I believe that there are times when you talk about patience. I still believe there are times when patience is the suitable call. However, when you see patterns persist, and the results don’t change, you have to adjust the way you think about things.

We will look at everything this summer. We will consider everything this summer. All with the intention of the one thing we are here for — to make the Maple Leafs better and to win.

Brendan Shanahan on whether core changes to the Maple Leafs' roster will be considered this offseason: "There is a time for preaching patience, and there is a time when you have to examine the patterns that persist... Everything will be on the table"

At Friday’s press conference, Maple Leafs President and Alternate Governor Brendan Shanahan discussed the firing of Sheldon Keefe, another disappointing playoff showing from his team, and whether he is going to revisit his commitment to his core players. Opening Statement on the dismissal of...

mapleleafshotstove.com

 

[1specter]

The Leafs have identified player(s) who haven't moved the ball forward enough..... they will likely be moved, if they can.... Speculation is that's Marner.



Brendan Shanahan

Our playoff results have not been good enough. That is on me. The results that we have had in the playoffs—our players know, I know, we know—are unacceptable. They are unacceptable to our fans. They are unacceptable to all those who support the Toronto Maple Leafs.

We analyze at the end of every season. We look at our team, and we look forward. We look for ways to be better. We do that every year. In the past, I believe that there are times when you talk about patience. I still believe there are times when patience is the suitable call. However, when you see patterns persist, and the results don’t change, you have to adjust the way you think about things.

We will look at everything this summer. We will consider everything this summer. All with the intention of the one thing we are here for — to make the Maple Leafs better and to win.

Brendan Shanahan on whether core changes to the Maple Leafs' roster will be considered this offseason: "There is a time for preaching patience, and there is a time when you have to examine the patterns that persist... Everything will be on the table"

At Friday’s press conference, Maple Leafs President and Alternate Governor Brendan Shanahan discussed the firing of Sheldon Keefe, another disappointing playoff showing from his team, and whether he is going to revisit his commitment to his core players. Opening Statement on the dismissal of...

mapleleafshotstove.com

Agreed. He was also asked about the core multiple times and danced around it basically saying everything short of explicitly stating 'we're not running it back with this group'. It's clear they're at least going to try and shake things up and by process of elimination Marner is pretty much the only guy who realistically goes.

 

[meefer]

If we re-sign Tavares I am going to put this forum on ignore for a few days because I would be completely insufferable otherwise. In order for the culture to truly change he is a necessary departure. The Tavares era was a failure, period.

If you think these years have been the "Tavares era", when would you expect the Matthews era to begin? I do understand your frustration, I feel it as well. But, nobody after AM's 2nd year felt anything other than this is 'our guy'. JT was always going to be the second chair. An overpaid 2nd chair, as was expected as the contract aged, but a 2nd chair nonetheless.

I'm not trying to build Tavares up to being something he isn't, but our expectations were built on the young players leading us to the Cup. JT's role was to solidify with expected solid first line numbers, but not elite numbers, that was for Matthews, Marner and Nylander. For the most part, I think JT held up his end of the bargain, for as long as we rightfully should have expected him to be able to do so. That the others have underperformed relative to our expectations, and their paychecks is what we've been stuck with.

He ain't the player he once was, but I'll plant my flag here in saying JT gave/gives a more honest effort on a night to night basis than any of the three other 'stars'. I'd resign him after next year if the number was right, and he was properly positioned: 2nd line LW/3C. Heck, some here are talking Bert at 5, Domi at 4, and JT outscored both by around 20 points, and on a P/60 basis, and while following Domi at ESP/G he did outpace Bert with the same measure. He was 4th amongst F in hits trailing Reaves, Gregor and Knies, and he's not bad at faceoffs.

Of course, JT could collapse next year, and then all bets are off. But, if he's able to produce at a respectable rate/expectations, and he's willing to give a little discount 'for the team', heck ya I'd sign him to a 3x3. JT is, to me, a 'professional'. He may not be the best, he may not inspire, he may be overpaid, he may be in decline, but I know he know's the game and I know he's going to give it his best. I can spend 3.4% of the cap on that.

 

[Budz]

Would Seattle consider, Wright for Rielly?