Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[BertCorbeau]

He's a 2nd line center who will usually give you around 55-60 points a season with very average defensive results

I don't hate it but I don't think the Islanders should have been the team to do this, this just looks like a middling team who will remain a middling team for the foreseeable future

I'd say it's rich on AAV given he's having a peak season .. but not crippling. 8 years could hurt, but not until year 4 or 5 since he's 27 right now.

Isles are in win-now territory because they have an aging group .. But given where they are in the standings, I don't know if this move puts them over the top.

 

[LeafSteel]

You don't think Dubas and the org sets a price on players? And that he won't walk away if he can't get it for close to his valuation?

Just because you may not agree with his valuations, doesn't mean he routinely exceeds them. This isn't fantasy hockey deals.....

Based on his valuations in the Foligno trade and the Kadri trade, yes, I have some questions on the process.

Those terrible trades (from the day they happened, and not the “unforeseen” crappy outcomes) are why I have little faith in Dubas and making major deals.

My opinion and others are free to disagree as they wish.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think 8/9 AAV is probably going to be the going rate moving forward for a 2C. Isles are probably gonna want a better 1C in the future.

Horvat's caphit was a 5.5 AAV he got a 2.5 AAV raise. Was a pending UFA anyway; I suspect he would have gotten overpaid more than this in the UFA market as a center.

It is now if this is the precedent .. there's not much comparability for a 50-60 point centre getting this AAV/term in the last two years.

Horvat got a deal akin to his production right now as a near-PPG borderline #1C/high end #2C. No doubt he would have gotten this deal in free agency but if he regresses to his career norms is a pricey second line centre.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

______[''''''''''''''''']______
---------Tavares--------
|Matthews.Nylander|
Marner Chychrun

is the best PP1 in the league

 

[Gabriel426]

Pretty good deal for Horvat and the Islanders.
The rumour was 8mil for 7 years with the Nucks but Horvat didn’t extend. It might be that 8 yrs or bc of ego where the Nucks MGT choose to talk to Brock Boeser and Miller before him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'd say it's rich on AAV given he's having a peak season .. but not crippling. 8 years could hurt, but not until year 4 or 5 since he's 27 right now.

Isles are in win-now territory because they have an aging group .. But given where they are in the standings, I don't know if this move puts them over the top.

I wonder if next season his numbers reduce like we are seeing with Nazem Kadri. Last year Kadri had that career year with the Avalanche and isn't putting up close to those same numbers. This year Horvat is doing that.

The one major difference is Kadri signed as a UFA with Calgary, where as to get Horvat the Islanders gave up a 1st round pick, a top prospect, and a player off their roster. I guess with other UFA's like Kadri who didn't sign with the Islanders made Lamoriello desperate to acquire a big name and keep him.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Well, I wouldn’t say he’s a bad fit for the Leafs. I see him as more of an all around defensemen and at 24 years old, he’s only going to get better. The only worry I have about him, is his ability to stay healthy.

This is it. He’s a better all-around D-man for us, and to the extent he would improve our back end, that costs a price

 

[Fogelhund]

Update on Horvat signing...seems like it was 8 x $8.5.

""

 

[Gabriel426]

I like the idea in theory but it’s so hard to spread out minutes. We still need a shutdown type line too which if against the other teams too like will need minutes. Our strength is supposed to be our top 6…..diluting their minutes seems counter productive.

Here’s what I believe: Stack the top two lines. 3rd is shutdown mostly with ability to score. 4th is energy bang and crash line. 3rd/4th provide our PKs mostly. Top 2 lines provide our PP mostly.

Where I get messed up is Kampf. He’s our shut down center. But provides little offence. Can we surround him with two wingers to bring out some depth scoring from that line? Kampf/Jankrok/_____. Is there a single addition that can help here? Or do we need a complete change?

So top 6 LW (Meier is the dream) Stack it!
3rd line winger scorers that are also defensively responsible.

Tough calls

That’s what Keefe been doing and playoffs show that if our top 6 gets shut down, our bottom six can’t score in a 7 games series.
I think part of keeping a top 6 is for stats to justify their contracts. And also maybe the boys want to pad their stats too.
Keefe, Dubas just needs to sit them down and laid out the plan. Explain to them, your personal stats will suffer but the team will win and be better off comes playoffs and might win the Cup. And whichever line is playing well that might get a bit more mins.
But doubt that would happen though.

 

[Menzinger]

I'll give the Isles front office credit for locking in the asset, but that's an ugly aav.

He may indeed be the teams 2/3 best offensive guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's with such a high number for a guy whose likely not going to maintain his current production levels.

It'll be curious what they end up doing in the offseason

 

[ToneDog]

Lou Lam man

Pretty sure he had a deal lined up before he made the trade and waited to announce it. Should quiet the critics that said he paid too much for a rental.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Barzal Horvat is a nice 1 2

 

[BertCorbeau]

I wonder if next season his numbers reduce like we are seeing with Nazem Kadri. Last year Kadri had that career year with the Avalanche and isn't putting up close to those same numbers. This year Horvat is doing that.

The one major difference is Kadri signed as a UFA with Calgary, where as to get Horvat the Islanders gave up a 1st round pick, a top prospect, and a player off their roster. I guess with other UFA's like Kadri who didn't sign with the Islanders made Lamoriello desperate to acquire a big name and keep him.

One big difference in the Isles favour is that Horvat is 27 and Kadri was 31. Horvat is locked through his prime. Not that the offense will stay high.

Should eb interesting to see how Horvat fits int he Isles system .. I think it's good fit stylistically but that still may not translate to similar production.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Oh... $8.5 AAV now? that gets uglier

 

[ErnieLeafs]

More than sandin yes im agree but leafs can get better option than chychrun probably at a smaller price for what they need, thats my point

What is it you think they need, and who’s the upgrade that comes at a smaller price?

Chychrun improves a lot for us, gives us offense on the 2nd pairing that makes us that much more potent in any situation. He’s a big body who can handle himself anywhere on the ice, and he and Liljegren will compliment well, allowing the other to do what they do best. He fits the mold at 25yo going forward, and pushes Giordano down to the 3rd pairing, where he and Holl can be at hole with effective minutes.

I’m all ears on this. I’d like Gavrikov, ideally, but Chychrun is one hell of a consolation prize

 

[PromisedLand]

It is now if this is the precedent .. there's not much comparability for a 50-60 point centre getting this AAV/term in the last two years.

Horvat got a deal akin to his production right now as a near-PPG borderline #1C/high end #2C. No doubt he would have gotten this deal in free agency but if he regresses to his career norms is a pricey second line centre.

Depends how the cap allocation ends up being for the Isles after this season.

We have JT as a 2C and his 11 AAV ranks 3rd among all the centers in the league while he is 18th in the league in terms ppg.

Isles still have about 5 million in capspace and 8M for the TDL according to cap friendly; given that Canucks retained on the salary; I don't think Isles are done yet. They are gonna go for it.

Also varlamov is off the cap as a UFA after this season (5 AAV); depending on how the isles invest that moving forward.

below are the centers who are currently b/w 6 to 8 AAV; not an easy comparable IMO given he is a pending UFA and 27

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Barzal Horvat is a nice 1 2

Sure, if this is the real Horvat. Not if he drops back down to a ~50 point poor defensive player like he's always been. Too bad the Islanders don't exactly get the most out of their players offensively. Personally I'd rather not be the team paying over 17 million for those two

 

[LeafsNation75]

One big difference in the Isles favour is that Horvat is 27 and Kadri was 31. Horvat is locked through his prime. Not that the offense will stay high.

Should eb interesting to see how Horvat fits int he Isles system .. I think it's good fit stylistically but that still may not translate to similar production.

I forgot about their age differences. However, it's still true that previous UFA's like Kadri, Panarian, and John Tavares all refused to sign or re-sign with the Islanders since Lamoriello has been in their GM.

In the case of Kadri he played in Toronto when Lamoriello was the Leafs GM and Tavares had played his whole career with the Islanders.

So that makes me think Lamoriello was desperate to get a big name player.

 

[PromisedLand]

Pretty good deal for Horvat and the Islanders.
The rumour was 8mil for 7 years with the Nucks but Horvat didn’t extend. It might be that 8 yrs or bc of ego where the Nucks MGT choose to talk to Brock Boeser and Miller before him.

didn;t know nucks offered him 8AAV for 7 yrs. Thats interesting!

 

[BertCorbeau]

Depends how the cap allocation ends up being for the Isles after this season.

We have JT as a 2C and his 11 AAV ranks 3rd among all the centers in the league while he is 18th in the league in terms ppg.

Isles still have about 5 million in capspace and 8M for the TDL according to cap friendly; given that Canucks retained on the salary; I don't think Isles are done yet. They are gonna go for it.

Also varlamov is off the cap as a UFA after this season (5 AAV); depending on how the isles invest that moving forward.

below are the centers who are currently b/w 6 to 8 AAV; not an easy comparable IMO given he is a pending UFA and 27
View attachment 646052

It is tough to find a direct comparison. Here is a list of all centre signing in the last 2 years for a min term of 7 years and AAV greater than $4 mill:

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Hertl, Zibanejad, Hintz, and Couturier are probably all the best given their age. I think Z, Hertl, and Couts all were more established and proven.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Gabriel426]

I'll give the Isles front office credit for locking in the asset, but that's an ugly aav.

He may indeed be the teams 2/3 best offensive guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's with such a high number for a guy whose likely not going to maintain his current production levels.

It'll be curious what they end up doing in the offseason

I don’t think giving Bo a 8/8 contract is bad. Bc he will end up signing something like that in the offseason with any teams. That’s probably the going rate for a 2C that plays in the PP and PK-sometime, and also win you draws with solid defence.
What I noticed about Bo this season is that he cherry picked quite a bit, he is often the first one out of the Dzone and the last one to leave the Ozone. Prior to this season, he is always a responsible 200ft player and seems to be the most noticeable forward(in a good way) when the Nucks struggled.

 

[Gabriel426]

I forgot about their age differences. However, it's still true that previous UFA's like Kadri, Panarian, and John Tavares all refused to sign or re-sign with the Islanders since Lamoriello has been in their GM.

In the case of Kadri he played in Toronto when Lamoriello was the Leafs GM and Tavares had played his whole career with the Islanders.

So that makes me think Lamoriello was desperate to get a big name player.

didn;t know nucks offered him 8AAV for 7 yrs. Thats interesting!

That’s the rumor from Nucks

 

[PromisedLand]

It is tough to find a direct comparison. Here is a list of all centre signing in the last 2 years for a min term of 7 years and AAV greater than $4 mill:

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Hertl, Zibanejad, Hintz, and Couturier are probably all the best given their age. I think Z, Hertl, and Couts all were more established and proven.

probably have to wait and see for this contract.

Nucks have been a shitshow for a while so not sure how much "team effects" would have been the case for horvat. Boudreau's run and gun system may have helped Bo's offensive production; will be interesting to see how it pans out with the Isles.

Regardless Isles now have some form of top6 center that may actually help them from offensive pov I suppose

 

[Gallagbi]

Someone was going to give Horvat that type of aav

Makes sense for a team needing offense and lacking top 6 centres would be the one to do it, especially when they gave up the package in the first place.

I dont mind the deal, i just wonder if it moves the needle for them in results