Rumor: Trade Thread XVIII: Brace Yourselves. Friday Is Coming.

[TheTakedown]

I've made this point before, that's not exactly the case. It's a group effort. If their #1c is below average but their #2 and #3 are above average they have a chance of being an above average group.

Stastny would be a below average offensive 1c.

Stepan would be an above average offensive 2c.

Brassard would be an above average 3c.

They are plainly building around the a bruins mold. It's obvious. Size and speed on the wings. 2way play at center.

Stewart and Stastny actually make some sense.

Stewart and Statsny does make sense, I agree. I like the 1/2/3 punch up the line. Which brings me to my next point as why the center depth NEEDS to be something similar to:

Statsny
Stepan
Brassard
D. Moore

This is dependent on Richards being bought out, which we do not know if that's happening yet.

So... where does that put Miller then?

I would much prefer a Legwand signing over a Stastny acquisition. He's no gamebreaker but he could be a cheap servicable 2/3 line center as a stopgap to let Miller/Stepan develop more.

Again, Miller is NOT ready, and I'm doubting he will be ready for the beginning of next season. Want to be realistic? Let's think about how well he could actually be developing..

He plays on the WORST in the league AHL team, continually tries to do too much for his own handle, gets called up and looks lost... As much as I want Miller to "step in" and take that spot the day camp opens, there's a VERY small chance he can do that. You'd be better off putting him in a spot when someone gets hurt. If he can't outperform that person, then he does not deserve that spot, plain and simply.
That's how Callahan, McDonough, Zucc, and Girardi got their spots. Miller needs to do the same.

Some other things I found:
http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...buzz-could-the-pack-line-reunite-in-columbus/
Could it be? Callahan for Gabs and a pick?




Anyway, I'm playing around on Capgeek...

- If we go for Statsny at $7M per year, we are in cap hell... I added Stewart as a placeholder since he's been blabbed about a lot in the last 2 weeks...
- We end up with just over $6M in cap space if Stewart is NOT here and Callahan walks (or is traded for non-NHL assets).
- Boyle is NOT there for cap purposes, so the 4th line is Carcillo-Moore-Dorsett (nice that all of them are playing their natural positions on that line).
- All RFA's and UFA's are signed for MODEST raises
- Zucc @ 3.75
- Krieder @ 2
- J. Moore @ 1.5
- D. Moore @ 1.1
- Pouliot @ 1.5
- Stralman @ 3
- Basically, we won't have cap space to go after someone like Vanek unless we start stripping our depth

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Rick Nash ($7.800m) / Paul Stastny ($6.800m) / Chris Stewart ($4.150m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Chris Kreider ($2.000m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.750m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Dominic Moore ($1.000m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($3.000m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,120,833; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,979,167

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Brassard could probably get us an A-level prospect like Miller plus a B-level prospect like Hrivik.

Miller is just not an A-level guy... he is for our prospect pool, which is at it's worst in about 10 years, IMO. He might become a 2C... Hrivik for that matter, I don't think is B-level but C-level.

We seem to have one party that thinks we need to import everything via trade or UFA. On the other hand there's a group that thinks we have all the necessary pieces within, and we simply don't.

Unfortunately, we're a team in limbo, and we have been for about 8 years. YES, it's because of a half-assed re-build. But the **** is about to hit the fan. We're risking the loss of the biggest part of the "core." They're the first generation of our new identity, and things are gonna change.

Problem is, the timing is off--we're a pretty good team. So, I agree it's not time for a real re-build, although we didn't do it right the first time.

Someone convinced me, recently, that we have to see what AV can do for us in the playoffs--we've improve our other playoff problems in years prior, so let's have hope.

BUT the core is about to change dramatically, 'cause we can't afford both at 13zM. If we don't win the Cup, then I'd say blow it up, start over, but do it after next season is underway. It's going to mean tanking for a good 3-5 years. Make Henrik, McDonagh, MZA the untouchables and build out. A new core, a new identity. Guys who are hard-working two-way players BUT ALSO have the skill, not just the will to win.

 

[TheTakedown]

Miller is just not an A-level guy... he is for our prospect pool, which is at it's worst in about 10 years, IMO. He might become a 2C... Hrivik for that matter, I don't think is B-level but C-level.

We seem to have one party that thinks we need to import everything via trade or UFA. On the other hand there's a group that thinks we have all the necessary pieces within, and we simply don't.

Unfortunately, we're a team in limbo, and we have been for about 8 years. YES, it's because of a half-assed re-build. But the **** is about to hit the fan. We're risking the loss of the biggest part of the "core." They're the first generation of our new identity, and things are gonna change.

Problem is, the timing is off--we're a pretty good team. So, I agree it's not time for a real re-build, although we didn't do it right the first time.

Someone convinced me, recently, that we have to see what AV can do for us in the playoffs--we've improve our other playoff problems in years prior, so let's have hope.

BUT the core is about to change dramatically, 'cause we can't afford both at 13zM. If we don't win the Cup, then I'd say blow it up, start over, but do it after next season is underway. It's going to mean tanking for a good 3-5 years. Make Henrik, McDonagh, MZA the untouchables and build out. A new core, a new identity. Guys who are hard-working two-way players BUT ALSO have the skill, not just the will to win.

Ah yes, that was me haha.

The timing is off, yes, but in this case it isn't so bad, because we're not starting from the bottom of the barrel like a team like Florida or Buffalo is.
We're a middle of the road team with an OK prospect pool and a better than average NHL roster (albeit how incomplete some saw it to be earlier this season). We're in the perfect spot for what we need, a RETOOL...

We don't need to trade for a NEW core, we're building a new core from within the current core that we ALREADY HAVE, and that's our key here (this is NOT to be confused because with influxing "youth" from the Wolf Pack, that's just careless toss-in's that will never improve the team)

You have an untouchable set of guys in:
Zucc
Stepan
Nash
Kreider
McD
J. Moore
Stralman
Klein
Lundqvist
Talbot

That's 4 high end forwards (one on his way there), 4 elite defensemen (Klein arguably just a good defenseman, but on a very good contract), and 2 solid goaltenders, all that are on better than usual contracts that you see in this sham of a league (You could argue Nash's contract is not worth that high AAV, but it wasn't signed by us. You could also argue that Hank is a bit overpaid, but I'd rather have $8.5 in Hank than $6 in Corey Crawford)

Regardless, this core is PLENTY to build out from

 

[ArPanet]

What would it take to get Glencross on this team in place of Dors/Carc?

If Washington had been offered Erat or (healthy) Glencross for Forsberg...there's no doubt who would have been the far superior option, imho...Glencross gets moved this summer...if his longish term health is not completely ruled out...or I'm wrong...why would Calgary want to hold on to him? (Ok little drunk here sorry for the babbling)

 

[Raspewtin]

We dont want to overpay Callahan (our captain and homegrown) but we want to overpay for Stastny?

Shiny new toy syndrome strikes again.

Good going looking at this in the worst kind of vaccum.

Callahan is an injury prone, breaking down, 2nd-3rd line RW. Probably the least important position in hockey. Stastny is the same age, hitting the UFA market, has a few 70 point seasons under his belt, is an overall better player than Callahan, and plays the much more important position of center.

Maybe you just over value players because they are homegrown?

(I am not a proponent of signing Stastny).

 

[Raspewtin]

What would it take to get Glencross on this team in place of Dors/Carc?

Lol Glencross is not a 4th liner.

Calgary wont move him barring an overpayment.

 

[RangerBoy]

No idea why Panthers would be interested in Callahan. Giving up a good prospect and/or a pick and then watching him leave in free agency is such a Panthers move.

Free agency. Panthers owner Vinny Viola was a Rangers season ticket holder until he bought the Panthers. There is no state income tax in Florida. Callahan will be a rental wherever he goes until the summer. Dale Tallon built the Black Hawks Cup team in 2010. Viola will spend the bucks. The Panthers have many good young players. That could be a quick turn around deal.

 

[Raspewtin]

With Leo Komarov coming back the NHL next season, anybody want to sign him? Would love him on the team. Hard worker, big hitter, PKer, could replace Boyle if he leaves.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers will look like fools holding the line on Callahan(which they should)and turning around to sign Stastny to a 7 year contract worth $7M-$8M. That will feed the perception about the Rangers paying strangers and asking family to take less.

 

[darko]

Free agency. Panthers owner Vinny Viola was a Rangers season ticket holder until he bought the Panthers. There is no state income tax in Florida. Callahan will be a rental wherever he goes until the summer. Dale Tallon built the Black Hawks Cup team in 2010. Viola will spend the bucks. The Panthers have many good young players. That could be a quick turn around deal.

Gotcha. Thought you meant that Panthers would be keen to trade for Callahan. Chasing him in free agency makes sense for them, he's the type of player they desperately need. Leadership qualities and would improve worst PK in the league.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

If we don't get a already nhler back in a trade for cally which prospect will get the roster spot?

 

[darko]

If we don't get a already nhler back in a trade for cally which prospect will get the roster spot?

Fast would be my guess.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Stastny hasn't hit 70 points since 2010. 5 seasons ago. On the 6th best offense in the league he is scoring at a 65 pt pace. He is a significantly worse player than Brad Richards, who has a $6.7M cap hit and is now a buyout.

I honestly can't believe some people still want to go down the big ticket UFA road.

 

[Raspewtin]

Stastny hasn't hit 70 points since 2010. 5 seasons ago. On the 6th best offense in the league he is scoring at a 65 pt pace. He is a significantly worse player than Brad Richards, who has a $6.7M cap hit and is now a buyout.

I honestly can't believe some people still want to go down the big ticket UFA road.

I completely disagree, but the point stands that he's not worth what he'll get in UFA.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Good going looking at this in the worst kind of vaccum.

Callahan is an injury prone, breaking down, 2nd-3rd line RW. Probably the least important position in hockey. Stastny is the same age, hitting the UFA market, has a few 70 point seasons under his belt, is an overall better player than Callahan, and plays the much more important position of center.

Maybe you just over value players because they are homegrown?

(I am not a proponent of signing Stastny).

This seems to be the crux of your argument, and I'd love to know what its based on. I don't view Stastny as much of an all-around player. His offensive #'s have also taken a dive since signing a large contract. Hope I dont get to see what happens after he signs a bigger one.

For the record, I hope the Rangers stay away from both on the UFA market.

 

[Raspewtin]

This seems to be the crux of your argument, and I'd love to know what its based on. I don't view Stastny as much of an all-around player. His offensive #'s have also taken a dive since signing a large contract. Hope I dont get to see what happens after he signs a bigger one.

For the record, I hope the Rangers stay away from both on the UFA market.

Stastny has a better hockey sense (Callahan really lacks there, in my opinion), is a better passer by a considerable margin, and is a tad less effective than Callahan at penalty killing, as he's slower than him.

It also can't be ignored that he plays a much more important position.

The point again stands that I don't want Stastny. He has been declining, either way.

If I HAD to pick a player to sign to 7 x 7, it'd be Stastny.

 

[nyr2k2]

Stastny hasn't hit 70 points since 2010. 5 seasons ago. On the 6th best offense in the league he is scoring at a 65 pt pace. He is a significantly worse player than Brad Richards, who has a $6.7M cap hit and is now a buyout.

I honestly can't believe some people still want to go down the big ticket UFA road.

I don't think that Stastny is significantly worse. In fact, I think he's better. Stastny is scoring at a slightly better rate than Richards, despite only starting in the offensive zone on about 46% of his shifts. By contrast, Richards starts in the offensive zone on nearly 70% of his shifts. Stastny outscores Richards while playing better defensively and against far better competition--check out the Corsi--and he's more than four years younger.

Now, that's not necessarily a justification for signing Stastny to a huge deal. I don't think he's worth what he'll get (and Richards isn't worth what he already has). However, to say that Richards is significantly better isn't really supported by much in the way of facts.

 

[RGY]

Good going looking at this in the worst kind of vaccum.

Callahan is an injury prone, breaking down, 2nd-3rd line RW. Probably the least important position in hockey. Stastny is the same age, hitting the UFA market, has a few 70 point seasons under his belt, is an overall better player than Callahan, and plays the much more important position of center.

Maybe you just over value players because they are homegrown?

(I am not a proponent of signing Stastny).

Nor am I a proponent of overpaying for Callahan. I have made that clear the last few weeks. I was making a point.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Stastny has a better hockey sense (Callahan really lacks there, in my opinion), is a better passer by a considerable margin, and is a tad less effective than Callahan at penalty killing, as he's slower than him.

It also can't be ignored that he plays a much more important position.

The point again stands that I don't want Stastny. He has been declining, either way.

If I HAD to pick a player to sign to 7 x 7, it'd be Stastny.

I find bashing Callahan's hockey sense to be a strange argument. I think its one of his best attributes. Hes got a very high IQ.

 

[NYR Viper]

With Leo Komarov coming back the NHL next season, anybody want to sign him? Would love him on the team. Hard worker, big hitter, PKer, could replace Boyle if he leaves.

Yes, I would be interested. I don't know how much he wants though. Probably too much.

Stastny hasn't hit 70 points since 2010. 5 seasons ago. On the 6th best offense in the league he is scoring at a 65 pt pace. He is a significantly worse player than Brad Richards, who has a $6.7M cap hit and is now a buyout.

I honestly can't believe some people still want to go down the big ticket UFA road.

I haven't seen too many people high on signing Stastny for 7+ million. But the point remains, he's a good player. At least for myself, that is all I am defending.

I don't think that Stastny is significantly worse. In fact, I think he's better. Stastny is scoring at a slightly better rate than Richards, despite only starting in the offensive zone on about 46% of his shifts. By contrast, Richards starts in the offensive zone on nearly 70% of his shifts. Stastny outscores Richards while playing better defensively and against far better competition--check out the Corsi--and he's more than four years younger.

Now, that's not necessarily a justification for signing Stastny to a huge deal. I don't think he's worth what he'll get (and Richards isn't worth what he already has). However, to say that Richards is significantly better isn't really supported by much in the way of facts.

Exactly.

 

[nyr2k2]

I find bashing Callahan's hockey sense to be a strange argument. I think its one of his best attributes. Hes got a very high IQ.

That's always been the great equalizer for him, and what allows him to "play above" his pure skill level. If he didn't possess good hockey sense, he'd just be your run-of-the-mill third line grinder. The good hockey IQ makes him a potential 25-25 guy.

 

[Raspewtin]

I find bashing Callahan's hockey sense to be a strange argument. I think its one of his best attributes. Hes got a very high IQ.

Agree to disagree here. I think he lacks it.

 

[NYR Viper]

I find bashing Callahan's hockey sense to be a strange argument. I think its one of his best attributes. Hes got a very high IQ.

High hockey IQ and high end motor for sure. Especially defensively.

 

[DudMan28]

Seems like the general consesus is that most of us dont want to sign Statsny. If we buy out Richards, going into the season with Miller penciled in at 3C isn't the smartest decision. Who are some guys we could target via FA to fill that 3C role?

 

[NYR Viper]

That's always been the great equalizer for him, and what allows him to "play above" his pure skill level. If he didn't possess good hockey sense, he'd just be your run-of-the-mill third line grinder. The good hockey IQ makes him a potential 25-25 guy.

It's a bit funny because while he possesses a good hockey IQ, he lacks the pure skill that would make him effective over a long career. Most of the time good hockey IQ means you will be able to play longer.