Rumor: Trade Thread XVII: Callahan's Reckoning.

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

With the way our defense has been playing for the last 20 or so games and years prior, I truly think we have one of the best defenses in the league. We may not have a Suter/Weber/Keith. But we have a McDonagh. When you have two LDs who could play in the #1 spot, you are doing something right.

I was saying that, in the event they trade Cally for futures, Fast/Miller might come up and play on the 3rd line and perform lights out like Krug et. al. came up and performed lights out for Boston last year. Not guaranteeing it, but it's certainly possible. (And if they don't, I don't think it's a big deal to give them sheltered minutes and have Nash/Zucc play more.)

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Rangers have not had that in a while. for this team its not easy to find.

Because Sather doesn't look in the right places for longer term solutuons.

But to say we haven't had them is just wrong. Kreider, Pouliot, Pyatt, Nash.

Size and being a bully are two different things. You don't need to be a bully to be successful. Simply having that reach and ability to protect the puck makes a difference.

Instead of acquiring journeymen, Sather could target long-term solutions.

Stewart isn't a long-term solution. Is Pouliot?

The coaching staff putting individuals in situations they can succeed in, is also part of it.

 

[Giglio NYR15]

Would you make the trade if you could resign Moulson?

ehhh no...moulson isnt vanek or a stastny. Moulson has shown hes good but not as good without tavares and not worth a huge hit contract, wouldnt pay it.

 

[NYR Viper]

Would you make the trade if you could resign Moulson?

Absolutely not. Moulson will want big money too. 6 million for 6-7 years.

 

[OverTheCap]

Brooks is all over the place with his analysis. Last week he was advocating trading Callahan and now he wants to keep him as a "rental." Brooks may have good sources but when it comes to editorializing he is horrible.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

I should have been more specific. Win now as within the next few years. What if Miller isn't ready? Yeah he is tearing up the AHL but that has not amounted to much in the NHL yet. Forcing a kid in like that could ruin him.

Explain why Brassard should go?

Isn't one of the debates going on "don't keep or overpay a player just because there is no immediate replacement".

If Miller is ready, you get a cheap stop gap.

 

[NYR Viper]

Because Sather doesn't look in the right places for longer term solutuons.

But to say we haven't had them is just wrong. Kreider, Pouliot, Pyatt, Nash.

Size and being a bully are two different things. You don't need to be a bully to be successful. Simply having that reach and ability to protect the puck makes a difference.

Instead of acquiring journeymen, Sather could target long-term solutions.

Stewart isn't a long-term solution. Is Pouliot?

The coaching staff putting individuals in situations they can succeed in, is also part of it.

And yet you want to put rookies as the 2C and 3C spots and expect to compete?

 

[Gardner McKay]

I was saying that, in the event they trade Cally for futures, Fast/Miller might come up and play on the 3rd line and perform lights out like Krug et. al. came up and performed lights out for Boston last year. Not guaranteeing it, but it's certainly possible. (And if they don't, I don't think it's a big deal to give them sheltered minutes and have Nash/Zucc play more.)

What worries me is that Miller hasn't looked ready in his outings so far. You don't want your horses burning out on you by playing them too much (Zucc/Nash). Remember what happened to McDonagh + Girardi when they were playing 27+ minutes nightly under torts? You could tell against the Devils they had lost some muster.

I want as much depth as possible. If Miller/Fast aren't ready and someone gets hurt, what do you do then?

 

[Trxjw]

Such is the problem with trading a player who is so emotionally engrained in the culture of the team and the fans. All it takes is one big game, and one heart tugging moment, and suddenly it starts to change people's views from realistic, to overly optimistic. Notice how all of the comments allude to us being just a notch below the "best of the East". No mention of the West that is rolling over everyone.

Hence the reason waiting until the last minute gets you nowhere.

 

[LORDE]

On the SJ comparable, I personally think Fast and Miller are ready right now to be our 3rd best RWs. They aren't PUSHING per se, but they're ready to step in.

On Ola's point that "7-year deals are the going rate for your best players these days," I agree - about your best players. Despite being the captain, a fan favorite and a team leader, CALLAHAN IS NOT ONE OF OUR BEST PLAYERS. The fact that Callahan came up through the system, epitomized hard work and helped turn the organizational culture around does NOT make him an equivalent to a Getzlaf or a Perry. We DID give our one home-grown elite player one of those deals - Hank just signed it a month or so ago, remember? If and when we have a true first line forward, and not a hard-working guy who's the 3rd best RW on the team, that is in a similar situation, I promise you that he too will get close to a max deal. But you DON'T give 7x7 to "intangibles" guys. Clarkson and Brown are making MILLIONS less and they're already looking like bad deals.

And as to the question of the message that it sends to other players that come up through the system: what kind of precedent does it set if you DO give him this ridiculous deal? If we drafted you, we'll be terrified of lockeroom backlash if we don't cave so 7-year deals for everyone who isn't a 4th liner/6th defenseman? Craziness. We paid Hank; Cally we offered a very good deal (which frankly was too much and I didn't like), but will be traded if he wants much more than he's worth. You will be dealt with according to your worth, as should be the case. THAT is the message.

Move him. It's in the best long-term interest of the team. And I frankly don't think it hurts that much this year - outside of last night, he hasn't been nearly as important as half the other guys on the team to the team's success.

Best post of the thread.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Isn't one of the debates going on "don't keep or overpay a player just because there is no immediate replacement".

If Miller is ready, you get a cheap stop gap.

Overpaying Brassard? The debate is for Callahan because he wants a laughable amount of money (nearly 7 million). I don't want a cheap stopgap. I want the better #2 center playing there. Trading Brassard because he is going to want a few million is an NHL 14 mentality. If you can sign Brassard for 4 million for a few years you absolutely do it. Trading him and throwing Miller in on the second line would almost be as bad as not trading Callahan in hopes you win the cup this year. It is a gamble that more likely than not, won't pay off.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Such is the problem with trading a player who is so emotionally engrained in the culture of the team and the fans. All it takes is one big game, and one heart tugging moment, and suddenly it starts to change people's views from realistic, to overly optimistic. Notice how all of the comments allude to us being just a notch below the "best of the East". No mention of the West that is rolling over everyone.

Hence the reason waiting until the last minute gets you nowhere.

We have beaten two of the better two teams in the West. Colorado and Chicago. SJS & Anaheim were early in the season when we were being steamrolled by the entire league. Id like to see what happens if we play them again right now.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

And yet you want to put rookies as the 2C and 3C spots and expect to compete?

Did the Bruins not have rookie defensemen (plural) in their lineup when they reached the Stanley Cup Finals?

The Rangers have one of the top defense corps and goaltending tandem in the league. They have a 1B center, an elite winger, a top young winger, and plenty of depth up front to fill roles.

If they need to be a little patient with the center position, thats fine.

Over paying Brassard just because Miller may or may not be ready isn't smart, either.

Sign a cheap stop gap.

This is problem Sather created by continually trying to buy the center position (the most important forward position) rather than growing the position like everyother successful franchise.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Did the Bruins not have rookie defensemen (plural) in their lineup when they reached the Stanley Cup Finals?

The Rangers have one of the top defense corps and goaltending tandem in the league. They have a 1B center, an elite winger, a top young winger, and plenty of depth up front to fill roles.

If they need to be a little patient with the center position, thats fine.

Over paying Brassard just because Miller may or may not be ready isn't smart, either.

Sign a cheap stop gap.

This is problem Sather created by continually trying to buy the center position (the most important forward position) rather than growing the position like everyother successful franchise.

They had a rookie who was playing sheltered minutes and getting PP time. Not playing prime 2C minutes against the best competition in the league.

This is 100% a recipe for disaster. You have yet to explain where overpaying Brassard is coming into play?

Also this is hilarious. You bash rather for not trying to grow the position. Yet you want to trade a young Center for an even younger one who is not ready? Stepan, Brassard, Miller, Boyle, Moore, Lindberg are all guys that were either drafted by us or traded for when they were still young. Most are still young.

 

[AHB*]

Such is the problem with trading a player who is so emotionally engrained in the culture of the team and the fans. All it takes is one big game, and one heart tugging moment, and suddenly it starts to change people's views from realistic, to overly optimistic. Notice how all of the comments allude to us being just a notch below the "best of the East". No mention of the West that is rolling over everyone.

Hence the reason waiting until the last minute gets you nowhere.

We are certainly below Boston and Pitt, but I'm not sure of anyone else, especially with this recent stretch. We've won 15 of our last 21, that's significant, especially when you understand the beginning of this season was more a reflection of the change in style and adapting to a new system, then of the actual roster as constructed.

Sure we have a few major holes but how are we not a notch below the best of the east? And sure, the West is clearly better, but often we see them go through the rounds, get beat up by beastly western teams and are more worn down than the Eastern teams. The measuring stick is the East, that's all that matters. Beat the East and if we make it to the finals, we worry about the west.

I don't think we're cup contenders, but we are a good team.

 

[Let Blaine Die]

Did the Bruins not have rookie defensemen (plural) in their lineup when they reached the Stanley Cup Finals?

The Rangers have one of the top defense corps and goaltending tandem in the league. They have a 1B center, an elite winger, a top young winger, and plenty of depth up front to fill roles.

If they need to be a little patient with the center position, thats fine.

Over paying Brassard just because Miller may or may not be ready isn't smart, either.

Sign a cheap stop gap.

This is problem Sather created by continually trying to buy the center position (the most important forward position) rather than growing the position like everyother successful franchise.

That has more to do with the fact that you don't get a #1 Centre unless you have a top 5 pick or you get extremely lucky (i.e. Giroux falling to the Flyers, and even then they were more smitten with Sangunetti). Sather trying to buy the centre position is more of a response to the Rangers never sucking enough to get a guy like Tavares, Stamkos or MacKinnon.

 

[Doctyl]

getting rid or Brassard right now does more harm than good. yea hes a streaky player but when hes on hes dominant. also i kind of want to see him in another playoffs, if he can keep up his playoff play then he is absolutely worth 4 million.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

We are certainly below Boston and Pitt, but I'm not sure of anyone else, especially with this recent stretch. We've won 15 of our last 21, that's significant, especially when you understand the beginning of this season was more a reflection of the change in style and adapting to a new system, then of the actual roster as constructed.

Sure we have a few major holes but how are we not a notch below the best of the east? And sure, the West is clearly better, but often we see them go through the rounds, get beat up by beastly western teams and are more worn down than the Eastern teams. The measuring stick is the East, that's all that matters. Beat the East and if we make it to the finals, we worry about the west.

I don't think we're cup contenders, but we are a good team.

I tend to agree.

But I think its shameful that management continues to let this reality be a driving force for poor decisions and/or inaction.

The Rangers can be a good team without Callahan too, without risking him simply walking away in July.

 

[Bardof425*]

Yeah the Rangers need to out possess the other team to win games. Teams don't have to out skill you to out possess you, they can just throw it on the boards and engage in board battles and dominate a smaller team physically.

Those games are tighter checking games. A guy like Derek Dorsett hurts you in a game like that. It's why guys like Winnik, Reeves, Fistric, and Bollig play in this league, they are all less skilled than Brian Boyle, but do their part in helping a team win.

The Rangers are small and undersized. I am not expecting a team of this build to make the conference finals any time soon.

The guys you mention are absolutely positives for their teams and Winnick and Bollg are more skilled than you state.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

getting rid or Brassard right now does more harm than good. yea hes a streaky player but when hes on hes dominant. also i kind of want to see him in another playoffs, if he can keep up his playoff play then he is absolutely worth 4 million.

Never have thought of Brassard as a dominant player. Never will either.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I tend to agree.

But I think its shameful that management continues to let this reality be a driving force for poor decisions and/or inaction.

The Rangers can be a good team without Callahan too, without risking him simply walking away in July.

I agree. Under Torts, trading/losing Callahan would have been devastating. Akin to trading/losing Zucc under AV. Zucc wasn't anything special under Torts and Callahan (despite his nice performance last night) isn't anything specially under AV.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I agree. Under Torts, trading Callahan would have been devastating. Akin to trading Zucc under AV. Zucc wasn't anything special under Torts and Callahan (despite his nice performance last night) isn't anything specially under AV.

If management is going to continue going in this direction regarding the style of play (always a mystery year after year, admittedly), it makes even MORE sense to deal Callahan.

 

[Trxjw]

We have beaten two of the better two teams in the West. Colorado and Chicago. SJS & Anaheim were early in the season when we were being steamrolled by the entire league. Id like to see what happens if we play them again right now.

Colorado is not a team that is going to make a deep run to the playoffs. They're a rebuilding team that has drastically overachieved. Their defense is a joke. They also played the night before after flying two thirds of the way across the country.

One game doesn't mean you're better than the other team, or even at the same level. There's a reason that the best teams almost always make it to the cup finals. A 7 game series weeds out the outliers. Winnipeg spanked Anaheim the other night. Are they suddenly a playoff team? No, of course not. I can appreciate the streak this team is on, but Lundqvist is absolutely on fire, and the team is getting a **** ton of fortunate and downright lucky bounces in their favor as well.

Hell, even on this hot streak, look at the results against teams who are actually legitimate playoff contenders. We've been beating up on lesser teams.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Overpaying Brassard? Where does that even come from. I don't want a cheap stopgap. I want the better #2 center playing there. Trading Brassard because he is going to want a few million is an NHL 14 mentality. If you can sign Brassard for 4 million for a few years you absolutely do it. Trading and throwing Miller in on the second line would almost be as bad as not trading Callahan in hopes you win the cup this year. It is a gamble that more likely than not, won't pay off.

Brassard's cap hit is 3.2 now. What makes you so sure he'd sign for 4 million, that you'd start posting wise crack comments?

What are other #2 centers in the league earning? Does he have arbitration rights? Why wouldn't his side be asking 5+ million? Tyler Bozak 4+ under the old CBA. Brassard could easily command 5+, especially knowing he will be the Rangers "only option at #2".

There is an awful lot of contradiction going on.

It's not ok to suggest trading Derick Brassard, but it is to suggest trading Dan Girardi, when there is no replacement for the 20 minutes he provides against top competition.

Same arguments were being made as to why they should pay and keep Cullen. Because Dubinsky "wasn't ready".

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Because Sather doesn't look in the right places for longer term solutuons.

But to say we haven't had them is just wrong. Kreider, Pouliot, Pyatt, Nash.

Size and being a bully are two different things. You don't need to be a bully to be successful. Simply having that reach and ability to protect the puck makes a difference.

Instead of acquiring journeymen, Sather could target long-term solutions.

Stewart isn't a long-term solution. Is Pouliot?

The coaching staff putting individuals in situations they can succeed in, is also part of it.

Pouliot and Pyatt have size but use their size.. Nash, rarely throws his body. having size does not mean much if you dont use it to your advantage. not only being physical but using the size down low and in front of the net for a big guy Nash rarely screens the goalie.... Rangers need guys like Lucic, Horton, Hartnell, Benn, Chiasson, Backes. its not hard to find guys like these, Rangers just think a big guy is gonna overpower someone because they have size : Poti, Malakhov, Boyle, Malik, Pyatt. all big guys that rarely play aggressive...