Rumor: Trade Thread XVI: Callahan looking for $6.85M+ AAV?

[Trxjw]

Happiness?

There's more to life than money. I'm not saying that making more money in a different city won't make him happier than less in NY, but it's a little silly to say that there's no reason why he might.

I'm not speaking in generalities. I'm talking about Callahan specifically. If he felt he would be $12M happier playing for New York for the next 5 years, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

[aufheben]

Yes that's a good point, millions of people sacrifice money to live in NYC. But in this situation, Buffalo is close to Rochester, and is in the same state as NYC. Using Buffalo as a hypothetical.

 

[Trxjw]

How about "we learned from those lessons?"

That's fine, and I hope that they did, but I highly doubt that makes Callahan drift any closer to signing with this team. If anything, I'd say it alienates him.

A guy gives his all, asks for a market rate for a UFA, and you tell him he's going to be the guy that the Rangers held fast on after giving those awful deals to other players? Talk about a kick in the balls.

 

[jniklast]

I'm not speaking in generalities. I'm talking about Callahan specifically. If he felt he would be $12M happier playing for New York for the next 5 years, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

For Cally specifically Buffalo certainly is very attractive as it is close to his home. But it probably wouldn't be quite $12M difference, as he can still get a new deal after the five years the Rangers offered (with the obvious risk of an injury).

 

[Greg02]

I'm not speaking in generalities. I'm talking about Callahan specifically. If he felt he would be $12M happier playing for New York for the next 5 years, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Fair enough; I certainly don't blame Cally for feeling that way.

 

[Thirty One]

That's fine, and I hope that they did, but I highly doubt that makes Callahan drift any closer to signing with this team. If anything, I'd say it alienates him.

A guy gives his all, asks for a market rate for a UFA, and you tell him he's going to be the guy that the Rangers held fast on after giving those awful deals to other players? Talk about a kick in the balls.

Knowing Callahan, he'll probably be out 4-6 with swollen balls.

 

[LORDE]

All I said was that having someone in your office who is overpaid isn't the same thing as what Callahan is facing.

This franchise has built Callahan up as the "heart and soul" of the team. They've marketed him as the definition of hard work and effort. It's very hard to do that and then turn around and say, "Sorry, we don't think you're worth what we gave to Brad Richards, Chris Drury, Scott Gomez, or Wade Redden." The fact of whether or not Callahan actually deserves that money isn't really relevant, it basically boils down to "When it comes to writing a check, we valued these other guys more than we valued you." We can put all of the injury risk and age spin on it we want, but this team has a serious history of throwing money around at lesser players than Callahan.

That doesn't mean that I think he's worth $6M per year for 7 years, but I'm also not the one who signed Richards, Redden, etc.

I don't get how it's different. It's part of life. Everywhere you go there is a cab driver who makes more than the best cab driver in his/her cab company. It happens. It's how businesses are run. It's smarter if you can pay X less than Y even tho X does better work for you.

What you don't want to do is to fully know that Y is worse than X and still pay Y more.

Look I like Cally and want him here for his career, just not at that price.

So instead of "When it comes to writing a check, we valued these other guys more than we valued you." I'm hoping Sather says something more along the lines of "In the past we've made mistakes when signing Drury, Gomez, Richards and Redden... we're not going to repeat those mistakes"

Again, I'm all for Cally going out and signing for 7/6M. Good for him!

A wise man once said "In this world, you gotta look out for #1... and try not to step in #2"

As long as it's not with NYR.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Is Callahan's agent really crying about us paying free agents?

When Callahan puts up 80 points consistently and wins a cup and Conn Smythe then his camp has a right to *****. Until then, ****. Unreal

That's like me going to work and demanding more salary than someone who's more senior, produces more, and has been the best in the industry at one point. Funny joke

 

[Trxjw]

Good for him. He has priced himself out of the rangers plans. $6 million for his style of play and production is absurd.

Move on. This rangers team this year will make the playoffs with or without him. You can't pay that much money to him. Look at other players in this league. He wants Lucic money. He is not as productive and effective as Lucic. He just isn't. Bergeron will make $6.5 million next year. Does he produce like Bergeron? Marchand makes 4.5, Eriksson 4.25. Callahan is delusional. We made the mistake of paying for intangibles once. Not going to make it again.

Marchand's deal is a 2nd contract, and was though by just about everyone to be an overpayment at the time.

Eriksson's deal included 2 RFA years. He didn't have the option to test the market.

Only one of those guys signed a deal that prevented him from testing the market that summer, and that's Bergeron. In fact, he does produce very similar numbers to Bergeron. He's a very good two way player like Bergeron. He's a good leader like Bergeron. Is he as good? No, but he's certainly not far off.

And I don't give a crap about what Brad Richards makes. When we signed him we had a desperate NEED at center. Richards produced over his career. A stanley cup and conn smythe winner. Callahan has not been on that level and he is replaceable. I like Callahan, but I hate to break it to the fans here who think they can't live without him...he is indeed replaceable.

That's all well and good, but he's not asking to be paid more than Richards. He's asking for term, and the Rangers gave Richards a 9 year deal when he was 31 years old and are refusing to give Callahan a 7 year deal at 28 because his body might break down. Do you see the difference?

I haven't made one mention about not being able to live without him, so don't lump me in with people who do.

Girardi re-signs. RHD, 1st pair-2nd pair defenseman.
Callahan traded. RWer, 2nd line on a good year, but in reality a 3rd liner who PKs.

In reality, he's been a 2nd line RW for most of his career with this team. The numbers prove that.

And I'm also tired of hearing about how he needs to set up his future. $5.5 million/5 years/ $27.5 million can't set your family up for your future? Even with taxes? Get someone to manage your damn money if you have expensive tastes/

So you're telling me you'd be okay taking $27.5M instead of $42M? It's easy to say ridiculous things like that when you're not on the receiving end of the paycheck.

 

[RGY]

Marchand's deal is a 2nd contract, and was though by just about everyone to be an overpayment at the time.

Eriksson's deal included 2 RFA years. He didn't have the option to test the market.

Only one of those guys signed a deal that prevented him from testing the market that summer, and that's Bergeron. In fact, he does produce very similar numbers to Bergeron. He's a very good two way player like Bergeron. He's a good leader like Bergeron. Is he as good? No, but he's certainly not far off.



That's all well and good, but he's not asking to be paid more than Richards. He's asking for term, and the Rangers gave Richards a 9 year deal when he was 31 years old and are refusing to give Callahan a 7 year deal at 28 because his body might break down. Do you see the difference?

I haven't made one mention about not being able to live without him, so don't lump me in with people who do.



In reality, he's been a 2nd line RW for most of his career with this team. The numbers prove that.



So you're telling me you'd be okay taking $27.5M instead of $42M? It's easy to say ridiculous things like that when you're not on the receiving end of the paycheck.

Eriksson, regardless, is a better player than Callahan. Marchand, has at times, been on par with callahan's point production.

Bergeron is by far a better overall hockey player and its not even close. That is a slap in the face to Bergeron to say Callahan is "not far off." 468 points vs 250 points...

It's not about age between richards and callahan. The bottom line is in the article today an agent is complaining the rangers pay more for strangers than family. Who's agent do you think said that? Callahan? Girardi? My guess would be Callahan. Regardless of age, Callahan does not deserve $6 million. Richards signed his deal before the last lockout. You are not going to see 8-9 year deals anymore. Callahan wants 7 years. That is crazy for the type of game he plays. And $6 mil AAV is just as crazy.

In reality he has been a 2nd line RW during his career on teams that didn't have better options than him. 2nd/3rd line tweener in his career who over this next contract will solidify himself as a 3rd liner.

$27.5 million over 5 years. He wants $42 over 7 years. You speak as if I came up with a contract that was the same term. If callahan produces enough and stays healthy, who's to say he wouldn't get another contract at 33 years old that was $4 million per year? Then it becomes $35.5 over 7 years vs $42 million over 7 years. Look at what Doan got this late in his career. $6.5 million is going to stop him from living a comfortable life? Unreal.

 

[NY Lito]

Like a few people have already said, I think both parties knew how this would end last summer. We should've moved him then instead of having this turn into a mini-circus.

 

[The Gloaming]

Bergeron and Callahan are close? Funny joke.

 

[jniklast]

That's all well and good, but he's not asking to be paid more than Richards. He's asking for term, and the Rangers gave Richards a 9 year deal when he was 31 years old and are refusing to give Callahan a 7 year deal at 28 because his body might break down. Do you see the difference?

The Rangers (and most likely Brad himself as well) never intended Richards to play out his contract. The last three years are just tacked on for cap circumvention. You have a valid point that the Rangers were ready to sign Richards until he's 37 and refuse to sign Cally until he's 35, but Richards' production was vastly superior and as was said often enough here, Cally's playing style and injury history is more worrying.

 

[Cassano]

Bergeron and Callahan are close? Funny joke.

I doubt the biggest Cally fanboys even think that.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

All I said was that having someone in your office who is overpaid isn't the same thing as what Callahan is facing.

This franchise has built Callahan up as the "heart and soul" of the team. They've marketed him as the definition of hard work and effort. It's very hard to do that and then turn around and say, "Sorry, we don't think you're worth what we gave to Brad Richards, Chris Drury, Scott Gomez, or Wade Redden." The fact of whether or not Callahan actually deserves that money isn't really relevant, it basically boils down to "When it comes to writing a check, we valued these other guys more than we valued you." We can put all of the injury risk and age spin on it we want, but this team has a serious history of throwing money around at lesser players than Callahan.

That doesn't mean that I think he's worth $6M per year for 7 years, but I'm also not the one who signed Richards, Redden, etc.

But Drury was 5 years wasn't he? Which they're offering him.Only Drury actually won championships was coming off a huge season and played C. The team's reported offer of 35 mil over 5 years to Callahan is a very good offer and more than comparable to what they gave other guys

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

This agent's comments are odd. Considering we just re-signed the most important part of the "family" in Lundqvist to an 8.5x7 contract that is by far the highest paid goalie in the league. If we played hardball with Hank and said we wouldn't go above 7.5 for him, maybe this guy would have a point. His argument is shaky at best.

And the Rangers offered Cally 6 mil per for 5 years. That would be an over payment as it is. They just don't want to go longer on the term. His argument makes no sense because the money being offered is an over payment already. If Cally were smart he'd take the 6x5 contract. Then when it ends and he's 34, if he's still in good shape he could probably get 5x3 or even 6x3 on a final contract, giving him more money.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

That's fine, and I hope that they did, but I highly doubt that makes Callahan drift any closer to signing with this team. If anything, I'd say it alienates him.

A guy gives his all, asks for a market rate for a UFA, and you tell him he's going to be the guy that the Rangers held fast on after giving those awful deals to other players? Talk about a kick in the balls.

I don't think they said that specifically. However, that's the message you can infer from what he was (reportedly) offered (which, frankly, is more than I think they should give him for the player he is).

I don't have a problem with what either side is doing. Cally should get what he can - he's essentially looking to find a Rangers for his Drury. The Rangers - who as we, the league and pretty much every fan in the NHL knew by the end, should never have given Drury that contract - are looking to be Calgary to his Iginla. Everyone's doing what they should be.

The fact that this gets covered by the media, and that both sides have learned to leverage that fact, leads to these unfortunate quotes, which are just irritating.

Honestly, I just wish it were over already. I worry that BRB's got it right and it will extend beyond the freeze.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

This agent's comments are odd. Considering we just re-signed the most important part of the "family" in Lundqvist to an 8.5x7 contract that is by far the highest paid goalie in the league. If we played hardball with Hank and said we wouldn't go above 7.5 for him, maybe this guy would have a point. His argument is shaky at best.

His agent gets a % of Callahan's contract. The bigger the contract, the more the agent makes. He's going to make whatever argument he needs to make in order to increase his own payday. He could care less if Callahan plays in bum**** Buffalo, or bum**** Alberta if it maximizes the contract.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers are the only team which has a majority of their players living in Manhattan. Callahan would save money playing for the Panthers. No state income tax. Washington state is another no state income tax state. When Cano signed with the Mariners,the Yankees would have needed to surpass $240M to match the offer in real dollars. Something like $25M more.

 

[Trxjw]

Eriksson, regardless, is a better player than Callahan. Marchand, has at times, been on par with callahan's point production.

Bergeron is by far a better overall hockey player and its not even close. That is a slap in the face to Bergeron to say Callahan is "not far off." 468 points vs 250 points...

It doesn't matter if they're better players. What matters is the circumstances surrounding the deal they signed. Again, completely different situations.

A slap in the face? Hardly. Over the last four years their production has been similar and both players have been playing similar roles on their respective teams. To use career point totals is ridiculous. Bergeron had two PPG seasons that he hasn't come close to replicating and has simply played more games than Callahan. Is he as good as Bergeron? No, but he's certainly no slouch.

It's not about age between richards and callahan. The bottom line is in the article today an agent is complaining the rangers pay more for strangers than family. Who's agent do you think said that? Callahan? Girardi? My guess would be Callahan. Regardless of age, Callahan does not deserve $6 million. Richards signed his deal before the last lockout. You are not going to see 8-9 year deals anymore. Callahan wants 7 years. That is crazy for the type of game he plays. And $6 mil AAV is just as crazy.

We're not going to see 8 year deals anymore? Might want to double check that.

Again, they gave Richards that deal as an older player coming off significant concussion issues. You can pretend that the age isn't a factor here, but it clearly is. $6M per year is market value for a UFA of Callahan's caliber. Especially with the cap projected to go up.

In reality he has been a 2nd line RW during his career on teams that didn't have better options than him. 2nd/3rd line tweener in his career who over this next contract will solidify himself as a 3rd liner.

Ah yes, the "no better options" excuse. Was Gaborik not a better option? He certainly played him out of town pretty effectively. So now you're projecting him to be a 3rd liner. Pretty big difference between "has been" and "will be".

$27.5 million over 5 years. He wants $42 over 7 years. You speak as if I came up with a contract that was the same term. If callahan produces enough and stays healthy, who's to say he wouldn't get another contract at 33 years old that was $4 million per year? Then it becomes $35.5 over 7 years vs $42 million over 7 years. Look at what Doan got this late in his career. $6.5 million is going to stop him from living a comfortable life? Unreal.

Again, you're expecting the guy to do the team a favor and screw himself out of a ton of money. Meanwhile, the team isn't willing to return the favor. Who's to say Callahan doesn't have a freak injury in the third year of his deal and his career is over? You act like it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be around for another deal once this one is done. That's not how this league works.

You can make up all the hypothetical situations you like, but the reality of the situation is very clear. He wants 7 years. He wants $42M. He knows someone will give it to him. So, again, there is no reason for him to take less money. Rangers fans being petty about a professional athlete wanting money isn't a valid reason for him to take a lesser deal.

 

[Trxjw]

The Rangers (and most likely Brad himself as well) never intended Richards to play out his contract. The last three years are just tacked on for cap circumvention. You have a valid point that the Rangers were ready to sign Richards until he's 37 and refuse to sign Cally until he's 35, but Richards' production was vastly superior and as was said often enough here, Cally's playing style and injury history is more worrying.

Plenty of people saw Richards' game taking a nose dive and had concerns about him coming off of multiple concussions. The Rangers obviously did not have that concern, and now he's heading towards a buyout anyway.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

The Rangers are the only team which has a majority of their players living in Manhattan. Callahan would save money playing for the Panthers. No state income tax. Washington state is another no state income tax state. When Cano signed with the Mariners,the Yankees would have needed to surpass $240M to match the offer in real dollars. Something like $25M more.

I always thought that teams should be able to match post-tax dollars. States with a low tax burden have a big advantage in UFA, since teams from high tax states have a larger % of their cap eaten up by taxation.

 

[Trxjw]

I don't think they said that specifically. However, that's the message you can infer from what he was (reportedly) offered (which, frankly, is more than I think they should give him for the player he is).

I don't have a problem with what either side is doing. Cally should get what he can - he's essentially looking to find a Rangers for his Drury. The Rangers - who as we, the league and pretty much every fan in the NHL knew by the end, should never have given Drury that contract - are looking to be Calgary to his Iginla. Everyone's doing what they should be.

The fact that this gets covered by the media, and that both sides have learned to leverage that fact, leads to these unfortunate quotes, which are just irritating.

Honestly, I just wish it were over already. I worry that BRB's got it right and it will extend beyond the freeze.

I don't have a problem with what either side is doing either. I simply take issue with the fans who leap to the side of "Callahan is just being a greedy *******!" and fail to see the bigger picture. Sure, a fan might forfeit $12M and 2 years for a chance to play with the Rangers, but that's not the same situation.

GM's always overpay for these players. If Callahan didn't already know a team was willing to give him that kind of deal, he probably would have signed with the Rangers by now. It's just d*** waiving at this point.

 

[Riverdale]

I don't have a problem with what either side is doing either. I simply take issue with the fans who leap to the side of "Callahan is just being a greedy *******!" and fail to see the bigger picture. Sure, a fan might forfeit $12M and 2 years for a chance to play with the Rangers, but that's not the same situation.

GM's always overpay for these players. If Callahan didn't already know a team was willing to give him that kind of deal, he probably would have signed with the Rangers by now. It's just d*** waiving at this point.

Equally as bad as the people who are freaking out and saying that we are all "bad" Ranger fans for abandoning Callahan.

It is a business. No more no less.

 

[BLOCKERSAVE]

If we re-sign Girardi

Then I hope we strongly consider moving Staal while he's actually healthy & playing well.

Why do we need to move Staal?