Rumor: Trade Thread XVI: Callahan looking for $6.85M+ AAV?

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So many people in 11-12 were sure that that team would win the cup all season. This year people think this team's mediocre. Do you guys really think this team is that much worse? The D is practically the same, hell Staal, Stralman, and McDonagh are all playing a lot better than they were that season (at least in that regular season for Staal). Lundqvist is rounding back into form. So it the forwards? Are we really missing Gaborik that much? Granted that team had a good defensive system and good defensive forwards. I just don't get how everyone was so sure that season we were winning the whole thing and this season we're a mediocre team that might beat another mediocre team in the playoffs but will be demolished by anyone respectable. I think either this team is getting underrated or that team was overrated, or both.
 
Been there done that. If I can improve the team for years going forward I gladly trade a series win for that. The goal is to win a championship, not upset a higher ranked team en route to another playoff exit. Nobody remembers the teams that had one or two good series.

I really enjoyed 11-12. Two really hard fought series that felt great when we won.

Each to his own I guess.
 
I think we're really undervaluing Callahan if we don't think he'll get a top-six roster plaer, top-six prospect and a 1st... clearly not CGY or EDM or BUF's 1st. I saw someone get shut down with the idea of Cogliano, Etem and a 2nd, which, to me, is very plausible. You guys are forgetting how trades work--it doesn't matter if a guy is an impending UFA. You're crazy? If I'm a contender, i have tunnel vision, and if I want a guy that I think will get me there, I'll spend a lot on him. Then consider that Anaheim, like most other teams, has no Callahan. Then consider that Cogliano is only now a difference maker, and probably not even a big one for them. Perreault is just as good.

The value of Callahan is that he'll do everything you want your whole bottom-6 to do, while scoring at a 2nd line pace. That's as hard to find as a Backes or Getzlaf, it is. Now, with the direction the organization has said we need to move in, Callahan doesn't have as much value to US. he doesn't factor in to that direction, but team's WILL see value in him, and if you settle for **** like Ott, Foligno and a 2nd, you get what you deserve.

From STL, I want Stewart, Jenner and a 1st.

I agree that his value is maximized getting traded to a contender, but it absolutely does matter that he's an impending UFA. In the cap world, contract status is a huge hurdle to any kind of trade negotiation.

Also Jenner is a CLB prospect.
 
There is 0 reason for the Sabres to give up assets for Callahan right now. They can just politely wait until July 1st, and if he's available they can go after him.

Right now Callahan would only be attractive to a team looking to make a Stanley Cup run and needing that final piece. Or a team that knows they can sign him right away.

Right, but they'll have to be fine knowing he may very likely not be available come July 1.
 
Even if Cally stays, Rangers will make a minor move. Similar to the Niemenan for a pick and then flip that pick for Ozolinish, Sather will try and catch lightning in a bottle. Sometimes it works (Tikkanen for the Caps in 98, Thomas and Oates for the Ducks in 03, etc.) usually not.

I still think it's going to involve Dorsett getting flipped for a pick, and then that pick or another getting flipped for some veteran.
 
I really enjoyed 11-12. Two really hard fought series that felt great when we won.

Each to his own I guess.

Sure, it felt great at the time. But now we're past that that and are looking for even better results. Will winning two series again make you feel just as good this time around? The organization has the same goal every year...to win it all. If we aren't going to get there this season we need to start looking to next year.
 
I think we're really undervaluing Callahan if we don't think he'll get a top-six roster plaer, top-six prospect and a 1st... clearly not CGY or EDM or BUF's 1st. I saw someone get shut down with the idea of Cogliano, Etem and a 2nd, which, to me, is very plausible. You guys are forgetting how trades work--it doesn't matter if a guy is an impending UFA. You're crazy? If I'm a contender, i have tunnel vision, and if I want a guy that I think will get me there, I'll spend a lot on him. Then consider that Anaheim, like most other teams, has no Callahan. Then consider that Cogliano is only now a difference maker, and probably not even a big one for them. Perreault is just as good.

The value of Callahan is that he'll do everything you want your whole bottom-6 to do, while scoring at a 2nd line pace. That's as hard to find as a Backes or Getzlaf, it is. Now, with the direction the organization has said we need to move in, Callahan doesn't have as much value to US. he doesn't factor in to that direction, but team's WILL see value in him, and if you settle for **** like Ott, Foligno and a 2nd, you get what you deserve.

From STL, I want Stewart, Jenner and a 1st.

It's not nearly as hard to find a Ryan Callahan as it is a David Backes, let alone Ryan Getzlaf (!!). Seriously, Backes plays against tougher competition than Callahan, is significantly outscoring him and is better defensively. Ryan Getzlaf is arguably a top 5 center in the league. It's much easier to find a Ryan Callahan than either of those players, especially Getzlaf. Honestly, that is overvaluing Callahan.

Jenner also plays for Columbus.
 
I think we're really undervaluing Callahan if we don't think he'll get a top-six roster plaer, top-six prospect and a 1st... clearly not CGY or EDM or BUF's 1st. I saw someone get shut down with the idea of Cogliano, Etem and a 2nd, which, to me, is very plausible. You guys are forgetting how trades work--it doesn't matter if a guy is an impending UFA. You're crazy? If I'm a contender, i have tunnel vision, and if I want a guy that I think will get me there, I'll spend a lot on him. Then consider that Anaheim, like most other teams, has no Callahan. Then consider that Cogliano is only now a difference maker, and probably not even a big one for them. Perreault is just as good.

The value of Callahan is that he'll do everything you want your whole bottom-6 to do, while scoring at a 2nd line pace. That's as hard to find as a Backes or Getzlaf, it is. Now, with the direction the organization has said we need to move in, Callahan doesn't have as much value to US. he doesn't factor in to that direction, but team's WILL see value in him, and if you settle for **** like Ott, Foligno and a 2nd, you get what you deserve.

From STL, I want Stewart, Jenner and a 1st.

Your not going to get all of that. They will probably have an option for an NHL ready player or a higher valued prospect. Depending on who that is that will decide the draft pick.

If people are expecting us to completely fleece another team; your not living in reality. Girardi, on the other hand, would have possibly had a higher return. But, it looks like he is going to be resigned.
 
I think that until this situation is resolved/the olympic roster freeze is in effect, I will refrain from posting or looking at this trade thread.

So long guys. Talk to you in a few.
 
So many people in 11-12 were sure that that team would win the cup all season. This year people think this team's mediocre. Do you guys really think this team is that much worse? The D is practically the same, hell Staal, Stralman, and McDonagh are all playing a lot better than they were that season (at least in that regular season for Staal). Lundqvist is rounding back into form. So it the forwards? Are we really missing Gaborik that much? Granted that team had a good defensive system and good defensive forwards. I just don't get how everyone was so sure that season we were winning the whole thing and this season we're a mediocre team that might beat another mediocre team in the playoffs but will be demolished by anyone respectable. I think either this team is getting underrated or that team was overrated, or both.

Personally I think that team was overrated. We were a shot blocking machine that did a great job stifling our opponents...but we weren't exactly an offensive dynamo. I'll give you that we still have the same top flight D and goaltending, but while this current group is pretty good, I don't see how people can say it's at the same level as the elite teams.
 
Stewart gets flak because he might be their worst top 9 player. But that speaks volume about the Blues roster to begin with.

I'd say he gets flack because he's absurdly inconsistent and he floats more often than not despite having a huge frame that should be able to do damage.

Trading Callahan for Stewart is trading a guy who is a current very real leader on this team for a guy who has motivation problems. It's not a good deal off of paper IMO. Stewart is the last kind of player this team needs at all, let alone in exchange for Callahan.
 
Again, I don't know what gives you the impression he's being traded as a UFA when it's more than likely that a trading team will require an extension.

But I guess the key to happiness is lowering the bar, right? Unhappy? Lower your expectations completely, and you'll be happy.

I guess that's the mindset everyone is using for this trade.

Also - Stewart + second for Cally is pretty bad. Trade our most consistent player in terms of motor and work ethic and leading by example for an inconsistent malcontent who is not only buried on the 3rd line of a team that is in a similar position to our team, but has also worn his welcome with his fans. And also get a 2nd which might as well be a 3rd with how late they'll be picking in it.

Oh and also did I mention that trading our captain symbolizes throwing in the towel to a season that has actually started to look very promising?

You know what, this would definitely be the conservative and safe move. We would throw in the towel, put Stewart on our 3rd line, draft the safe pick with our newly acquired 2nd round pick... And well be much further from the cup than we are now.

Maybe I don't operate like you. But I'm the fan of a team that I have no financial stake in, that my life or job doesn't depend on their success. Watching them gives me a catharsis from work and studies and other trivial day-to-day problems I may want to distract myself from. In the end I want a team I've grown to like, a team that gives me excitement watching. Over the last 5 years, Cally and his mindset full of "unquantifiable intangibles" has given me excitement and even happiness when watching him and his team play. I understand that this is a business and that his demands are unacceptable for this team moving forward. But for a player that is so important to this team, for a player that embodies not only what this team has become but the ethos of a city where hard work and then some is necessary to be successful, for a player that had single handedly (on many nights) given me 2-3 hours of pure and unabated joy to watch... Trading him for the "safe" and conservative package will not fly. **** Chris Stewart and **** the St. Louis 2nd round pick. If Callahan is to be traded it better be for a package that can deliver the same excitement in the future. Otherwise, compromising the team's success this year, compromising the excitement around the team for the rest of the season for MANY fans, is not worth this sucky and conservative return just for the point of saving face.

Tiny point of clarification, the 2nd that everyone is referring to is Edmonton's (for the Perron deal). So a VERY early 2nd.
 
I'd say he gets flack because he's absurdly inconsistent and he floats more often than not despite having a huge frame that should be able to do damage.

Trading Callahan for Stewart is trading a guy who is a current very real leader on this team for a guy who has motivation problems. It's not a good deal off of paper IMO. Stewart is the last kind of player this team needs at all, let alone in exchange for Callahan.

Depends on what they add for Stewart. Even Blues fans were saying it wouldn't be a 1-to 1 swap.
 
I agree that his value is maximized getting traded to a contender, but it absolutely does matter that he's an impending UFA. In the cap world, contract status is a huge hurdle to any kind of trade negotiation.

Also Jenner is a CLB prospect.

Oooh, well that option is out lol...

It doesn't matter for the Ducks or CHI... they're renting, they'll spend regardless, it has always been this way.
 
I'd say he gets flack because he's absurdly inconsistent and he floats more often than not despite having a huge frame that should be able to do damage.

Trading Callahan for Stewart is trading a guy who is a current very real leader on this team for a guy who has motivation problems. It's not a good deal off of paper IMO. Stewart is the last kind of player this team needs at all, let alone in exchange for Callahan.

He gets flak because he's not really a good hockey player for the Blues. But yeah, inconsistency plays a huge role for that flak too. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Give me one of their top prospects or get Atkinson from the Jackets.

Edit: Wow looked at Atkinson's stats. Yeah, I doubt the Jackets move him for a rental Callahan. Best time would've been to acquire him last offseason.
 
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People are thinking Callahan is going to return more than a rental Vanek, Lol.

He'll also get a lot.. if the Isles were smart they'd trade him for Quincey/
Kindl or even Kronwall, the PF prospect who's name I forget, and a first?

Is he really that good though? No.
Is Callahan as good as Stoll, Toffoli and a 1st? No. Nor Cogliano, Etem and a 2nd (we might have to add like Duclair or McIlrath in that case). No?

But all three are feasible.
 
Again, I don't know what gives you the impression he's being traded as a UFA when it's more than likely that a trading team will require an extension.

But I guess the key to happiness is lowering the bar, right? Unhappy? Lower your expectations completely, and you'll be happy.

I guess that's the mindset everyone is using for this trade.

Also - Stewart + second for Cally is pretty bad. Trade our most consistent player in terms of motor and work ethic and leading by example for an inconsistent malcontent who is not only buried on the 3rd line of a team that is in a similar position to our team, but has also worn his welcome with his fans. And also get a 2nd which might as well be a 3rd with how late they'll be picking in it.

Oh and also did I mention that trading our captain symbolizes throwing in the towel to a season that has actually started to look very promising?

You know what, this would definitely be the conservative and safe move. We would throw in the towel, put Stewart on our 3rd line, draft the safe pick with our newly acquired 2nd round pick... And well be much further from the cup than we are now.

Maybe I don't operate like you. But I'm the fan of a team that I have no financial stake in, that my life or job doesn't depend on their success. Watching them gives me a catharsis from work and studies and other trivial day-to-day problems I may want to distract myself from. In the end I want a team I've grown to like, a team that gives me excitement watching. Over the last 5 years, Cally and his mindset full of "unquantifiable intangibles" has given me excitement and even happiness when watching him and his team play. I understand that this is a business and that his demands are unacceptable for this team moving forward. But for a player that is so important to this team, for a player that embodies not only what this team has become but the ethos of a city where hard work and then some is necessary to be successful, for a player that had single handedly (on many nights) given me 2-3 hours of pure and unabated joy to watch... Trading him for the "safe" and conservative package will not fly. **** Chris Stewart and **** the St. Louis 2nd round pick. If Callahan is to be traded it better be for a package that can deliver the same excitement in the future. Otherwise, compromising the team's success this year, compromising the excitement around the team for the rest of the season for MANY fans, is not worth this sucky and conservative return just for the point of saving face.

I find it difficult to believe that teams, right now, are lining up to give Callahan a 7 or 8 year contract. I dont think the whole "sure, go talk to other teams" was as much about a sign and trade as it was about Sather letting Callahan and his agent get a bit of a reality check.
 
Hey if callahan brings in a 1st line center prospect (a legitimate one) I'll be happy. Highly thought of guys like Schenn don't always match the billing but this team certainly has no shot at a top line center right now via the pipeline or FA.

They can survive without Callahan and even thrive without him. 7 years is very hard to swallow.

What if the team goes for something with ridiculous cash like a 3 year 24 mil deal? Guys like Hank and Crosby get 7.5/8 per year but they also get that for 8-10 years.

I don't know if it works in the cap so I'm going to go through the process for fun

Hank, cally, Nash, Girardi (assumin 7 mil) - 31.3 mil.
McD, Staal, Step, Klein, Hags - 12.2 mil
So that takes up 43.5 mil.

Leaves a good 24 mil (probably more like 28) leftover going into next season. STralman, MZA and Brass will prob be back. I think they should keep Brass for a 2 year deal similar to Steps.

Those three guys (if they all stay) will prob cost about 10 mil combined so that leaves 14 mil left.

I'll be super generous and give CK 4 mil. This leaves the team with 10 mil.

Kreider- STep- Nash
Hags- Brass- Cally
MZA-

Mcd- Girardi
Staal - Stral
Klein


Hank
Talbot

So the team has 10 mil to play with (again prob more like 13-16)

Dorsett, Carcillo, J. Moore, Falk, D. Moore, Boyle, some random FA.
Dors is already signed at 1.6 so that leaves us with 8.4 mil
Between UFA, Boyle, D Moore, Carcillo, Fasth, Lindberg, Those 3 guys will take up 5 mil at most. 3.4 mil left

Miller takes up 900K. Talbot with a mere 600k
This leaves a shade under 2 mil (likely 4-7) for the final spot on the third line and some 7th D man.

I had fun doing this and understand if it's a steaming pile of goat sh**.

In the next 2 years they could also trade Callahan, Brass, Girardi, Stralman. by then especially if someone like Kristo, McI, Allen, Skjei, Fasth, Lindberg has stepped up and made them expendable. I see Girardi as the hardest to replace though by far


In reality Callahan will likely get something for 6 or 7 years and be a 6 mil cap hit or we'll lose him and get nothing for it. If it's a 7 year 5.5 per deal I'd have to be pretty damn happy even though I feel 100% sure by year 5 I'll want to kill Callahan

Girardi will be about the same although I see him as getting around 7 mil.

The obvious assumption is booting BR. But if everything went as swell as possible they'd keep him, sign everybody and still have about 1 mil leftover. But BR has to f***ing go before Cally or Girardi do
 
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It's going to be a first and an interesting prospect unless he get's shipped off with a contract - and most of the teams who would be willing to give him the money he wants aren't in a position to move picks and prospects.
 
Hey if callahan brings in a 1st line center prospect (a legitamate one) I'll be happy. Highly thought of guys like Schenn don't always match the billing but this team certainly has no shot at a top line center right now via the pipeline or FA and I think it's the team's biggest flaw right now and going forward. They can survive without Callahan and even thrive without him (although he helps them thrive more of course). But he's going to be losing his physical abilities within the first few years of a deal and if it's a 7 year deal...oh boy.

What if the team goes for something with ridiculous cash like a 3 year 24 mil deal? Guys like Hank and Crosby get 7.5/8 per year but they also get that for 8-10 years. Callahan should be happy with a mega bucks deal that leaves him with the chance to sign ANOTHER contract in 3 years while he's still a viable player. The Rangers keep the still useful capt around but don't commit for any length of time.

I don't know if it works in the cap so I'm going to go through the process for fun

Hank, cally, Nash, Girardi (assumin 7 mil) - 31.3 mil.
McD, Staal, Step, Klein, Hags - 12.2 mil
So that takes up 43.5 mil.

Leaves a good 20 (Prob more like 24 mil if the cap goes up. Capgeek has it at 71. If that's the case then they'd have 27 or 28 mil. I'll pretend it will only be 24 mil leftover though just for the sake of fun) mil leftover going into next season. STralman, MZA and Brass will prob be back although Brass isn't needed and I can easily imagine him being traded. I think they should keep him for a 2 year deal similar to Steps. But Brass isn't bringing anything that is that great and if they want to they can jet his ass outta town this off season and replace him with a cheaper option.

Those three guys (if they all stay) will prob cost about 10 mil combined so that leaves 14 mil left.

Kreider will get what 2-3 mil on his initial RFA contract? Let's be super generous and put him at 4 mil. This leaves the team with 10 mil.

Kreider- STep- Nash
Hags- Brass- Cally
MZA-

Mcd- Girardi
Staal - Stral
Klein


Hank
Talbot

So the team has 10 mil to play with, they have 6 spots to fill (LD, the 4th line and two 3 line spots) and all the following guys to split it between.

Dorsett, Carcillo, J. Moore, Falk, D. Moore, Boyle, some random FA.
Dors is already signed at 1.6 so that leaves us with 8.4 mil and three spots to fill on the 4th line. Between UFA, Boyle, D Moore, Carcillo, Fasth, Lindberg, Those 3 guys will take up 5 mil at most leaving 3.4 mil.

Miller takes up 900K. Talbot with a mere 600k
This leaves a shade under 2 mil for the final spot on the third line and some 7th D man.

The 4th line could also easily only cost 3.5 mil. kreider could also only get 2.5 or 3 mil. If that's the case the team would have an extra 3 or 4 mil to play around with for the 4th line. Stralman doesn't necassarily have to be brought back for 3-4 mil or at all really. But I was trying to use extremes on several guys just to see if the cap would work under the utmost extremes. I had fun doing this and understand if it's a steaming pile of goat sh**.

Based on cap increases if next year really i 71 mil than based on what I put down the team would actaully be under the cap by 4 or 5 mil with every spot filled. If the cap goes up AGAIN the next year they'd have enough to re-sign Staal. They could also trade Callahan, Brass, Girardi, Stral. by then especially if someone like Kristo, McI, Allen, Skjei, Fasth, Lindberg has stepped up and made them expendable.


In reality Callahan will likely get something for 6 or 7 years and be a 6 mil cap hit or we'll lose him and get nothing for it.

Girardi will be about the same although I see him as getting around 7 mil.

If the season ended tomorrow I really think MZA would get 4.5 X 4 years. First year UFA at maybe 3... Brassar maybe 4 but no less than 4 years, IMO. His first run at UFA, and some desperate team might go as high as 5M. Every year has a wildcard, and Brassard will likely fit that category. Talbot has to be re-signed at 1.2-1.5.
 
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