Speculation: Trade Thread Part XI: New year...no trades.
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Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Just because they are dealt doesn't mean that it would have to be Lindberg taking their place.
Definitely? Moore is a better asset than Boyle and I don't think Moore can get a 3rd unless right at the deadline and the team is awful on draws. They are throw in types and guys you move for a 5th or 6th.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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I can. His ability to handle, pass and shoot the puck are poor. His skating and balance in general is poor. His vision in the offensive zone is non-existent; no playmaking skills whatsoever. His shot is weak and inconsistent (surprisingly his backhand is his only NHL level shot). His size is wasted except when attempting to block a shot.
He can win faceoffs and block shots; that's it. Everything else he does is AHL caliber at best.
His effort is fine as his lockerroom presence, but he is absolutely "tremendously flawed" as an NHL player. Seems like a nice guy though.
I think Boyle is viewed as a better asset than Moore. Really both are solid PKers and the types of players contenders will deal for at the deadline.
Boyle is overpaid but not as a rental
After watching this team for a half a season, it's pretty obvious we're not a contender. HOWEVER, we are a much better team than the standing show. We have a ton of guys that are either injuried, not playing up to their capabilities, or both. That has been our biggest problem. If this team as currently constructed was firing on all cylinders, we're easily a 4-6 seed in the East.
Lunqvist has been average. Nash has been average. Stepan has been average. Richards is better than last year but still below the standard of a $7.5M player. Callahan and Staal have been banged up. These are our main issues. Guys like Pouliot, Hagelin, Kreider, Moore etc. have picked up their game tremendously recently. Zuccarello has been our best forward. If our big guns could get going, this team would be in decent shape.
That being said.. there's definitely moves that need to be made. I'd honestly like to see Girardi moved at the deadline. He has some tremendous value and we have defensemen in the pipeline that will make losing him a bit more bearable. I have a really hard time seeing them trading Callahan; Sather doesn't have the nads to do it and I'd rather keep him to be honest. He's a gritty heart and soul player that has a tremendous impact on a game when he's 100%.
My formula would be to trade Girardi and MDZ at the deadline for the best possible returns and see where we're at. I'm also extremely open to buying out Richards, trading Stepan and signing one of the UFA centers this summer. The return from MDZ, Girardi and Stepan could be immense and exactly the re-tool this team needs without completely gutting everything as I think we have a good foundation
Lunqvist has been average. Nash has been average. Stepan has been average. Richards is better than last year but still below the standard of a $7.5M player. Callahan and Staal have been banged up. These are our main issues. Guys like Pouliot, Hagelin, Kreider, Moore etc. have picked up their game tremendously recently. Zuccarello has been our best forward. If our big guns could get going, this team would be in decent shape.
That being said.. there's definitely moves that need to be made. I'd honestly like to see Girardi moved at the deadline. He has some tremendous value and we have defensemen in the pipeline that will make losing him a bit more bearable. I have a really hard time seeing them trading Callahan; Sather doesn't have the nads to do it and I'd rather keep him to be honest. He's a gritty heart and soul player that has a tremendous impact on a game when he's 100%.
My formula would be to trade Girardi and MDZ at the deadline for the best possible returns and see where we're at. I'm also extremely open to buying out Richards, trading Stepan and signing one of the UFA centers this summer. The return from MDZ, Girardi and Stepan could be immense and exactly the re-tool this team needs without completely gutting everything as I think we have a good foundation
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Yeah, I don't see it happening again, however. His scoring rate compared to years he was traded for a 2nd:
ESP/60
2008-09 2.09
2009-10 1.67
2011-12 1.14
2013-14 1.03
You can throw in Sam Gagner in there as well. All the same type of players, same draft status. None are a part of a winning cause, but out of all of them Kadri is the most insulated with a bunch of scoring wingers.
Skating is an issue. So is physical maturity, all of these guys are shifty playmaker types that don't play three zones, aren't strong or willing enough to check, and their size and speed quotient isn't enough to allow them to win battles and score.
Add to that the mentally soft game, and inconsistency, you get an organization that will not win when counting on players like this to be difference makers. Guys like these do show nothing, and do it often.
- Sep 17, 2007
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Pshaw! It just took him some time to get going after a year off. He's a PPG player in January! That's 4.99 ESP/60!
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Pretty much my feelings on the subject. They're not the type of players you win championships with. Especially if a lot is expected of them. I'd still swap Kadri and Brassard.
I wouldnt consider one team's idiocy as the market.
Much in the same way I don't consider Dom Moore fetching 2nd rounders years ago to have a bearing on the here and now.
Give it a rest. Isn't it crystal clear he was vindicated with the Jeff Halpern vs. Brian Boyle debate of last year?
I wonder... hypothetically, if you were to trade Moore for a 4th and then ship Boyle out with that 4th for a 1st... would you do it?
I think we should keep Boyle, just wondering if you think that's fair value, undervalue, or over value for those 2 players.
I dont think it helps the team all that much given their utter failure in developing bottom 6 forwards.
I think Hagelin and Miller are 2/3 of a decent 3rd line (checking line). I think Boyle is 1/3 of a decent 4th line.
In place of Poo I think you need a bigger and relatively speedy (as fast as JT is, which is average NHL speed) winger, who is physical and hits hard. Someone like Markus Foligno.
On the fourth line, Dorsett could suffice if there was someone like a Shawn Thornton on the other wing. A younger Mike Rupp if you will. We need grit and toughness. Someone who doesn't take **** from anyone but also has some semblance of hockey skill. Rupp could handle the puck. Thornton can handle the puck. I'm not in favor of a Colton Orr or Donald Brashear... but if theres a similar guy to Rupp or Thornton available he could round out that bottom line nicely.
Then we need a 1/2 c depending on what you view Stepan as and another top 6 winger... Kristo can maybe fill that role next year and beyond.
I don't think Moore should be anything more than a 13th forward. He adds no substantial element to the team. He's not fast, he's not a goal scorer, he's not physical, he's average on face offs, and he's good on pk's. We trained Zucc to be good on the pk... I think they could live w/o Moore.
I think his value to another club would be a 4th (fair value) and a 3rd as an over payment if a team gets desperate.
Boyle on the other hand I think we should keep. I think he means more to this locker room than a 2nd.
If he keeps playing at this level his stock will definitely rise. That's a if though and something we'll get to in March when the possibility of trading him becomes more tangible.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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I think that's overvaluing Boyle. Boyle's only on pace for 19 points this year (http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/boylebr01.html). Sure that's only 2 less than Gaustad the year he fetched a 1st, but GMs likely valued Gaustad more BC JAM.
They likely valued Gaustad because he played well on the pk, he was one of the best on face-offs, could play well on the 3rd or 4th line, and was a good team player.
Boyle is average on face-offs, he's a good pk'er, he can play well on the 4th line and depending on his linemates he could play adequately on a 3rd line, and is definitely a good locker room guy. I think they should technically have somewhat similar values. Teams overpay for veteran leadership... especially for the playoff push. I hope we don't give Boyle up but if we did a 2nd wouldn't be out of order I don't think. Him and a 4th should be able to get us a 1st like Gaustad got the Sabres.
He's still another year out. I think he's out. Richards will be bought out. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on Sather's radar already.
Personally, I hope we trade Girardi for Silfverberg/Etem and Ana's 1st. That solidifies our top 6 wingers.
After that I wouldn't mind trading DZ and Brassard for a top 4 rhd. Keep Miller up as the 3c, let him develop in that role.
Get a top 5 pick and draft DelColle. That leaves about 36 mill in cap space (maybe more) this offseason. Don't spend it like an idiot and there should be a lot of money left over for Stamkos next year.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
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