Trade Rumours and Proposals: Part XXXIV

[Benjamin]

The problem isn't minutes, its numbers.

The Sens have Spezza, Turris, Smith, DaCosta, Grant, JOB, and Zibanejad who are natural centers.

JOB and Zibby have both been moved to the wing, leaving five.

IMO if Murray believes ROR is as good as the hype, then the right package includes Turris or DaCosta as the center piece.

Now enter my subjective opinion.

I think Zib is going to be a good player in the NHL. Even if his detractors are right about his lack of hockey IQ, he has the size speed and shot to be a top six winger.

At 19 years he is bigger and stronger than Turris and as he matures this will only be magnified.

So IMO a deal that makes sense for Ottawa includes Turris and a draft pick or prospect, but not Wiercoich for reasons I have explained in earlier posts.

Im sure a few of the centers could take turns on wing. Default to Spezza, ROR, Smith, JOB down the middle. Go from there depending on whos playing good, chemistry, opponent, injuries etc.

Murray wouldn't trade Turris after extending him and I doubt the Avs want the centerpiece of the deal to be a center.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

You have to give to get.

Murray gave up a top prospect (Rundblad) and a 2nd round pick for an unproven Kyle Turris. If I'm Greg Sherman I look at that deal, and ask for a lot more than Zibanejad and Greening for a Selke-nominated, 55 point, 22 year old centermen.

Don't forget the fact that more than half the league is calling Sherman trying to get this guy. We're not Sherman's only option, if we don't overpay we won't get him.

I agree if I was Sherman the asking price would be for more than Zib and Greening.

However if half the GMs are calling and yet no deal, it strongly suggests Sherman isn't going to get his asking price.

On the other hand if I was Murray, Smith is a non-starter. I realize you have to give to get so I would offer Turris for ROR.

PS Comparing one player to another or one deal to another is like stapling jello to a wall.. pointless.

Did you consider Murray felt Rundblad wasn't going to adjust to the NA game, where he just may believe Zib is a future top six?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Im sure a few of the centers could take turns on wing.

Murray wouldn't trade Turris after extending him and I doubt the Avs want the centerpiece of the deal to be a center.

The object is to make the Sens better, nothing more.

If ROR is what people say he is, then there is no question he replaces Turris.

Murray didn't sign Turris for 5 years to be a top six winger, he signed him to play behind Spezza and grow into the #1 guy.

I have read Sherman doesn't want a center in return, but on the other hand he needs to improve his team and Turris would help.

The fans of Colorado are already getting antsy due to the team's performance, the pressure is only going to grow.

 

[YNWA14]

I agree if I was Sherman the asking price would be for more than Zib and Greening.

However if half the GMs are calling and yet no deal, it strongly suggests Sherman isn't going to get his asking price.

I could just be that no GM is going to make a move for O'Reilly until his healthy? He has an ankle injury right now and isn't fit to play. No point in making a move for someone that can't play for you right now anyway. Not only does it give you a chance to make sure that ROR can come back fully healthy, but it also gives you a better chance to evaluate your team and what you would be willing to part with for him.

The object is to make the Sens better, nothing more.

If ROR is what people say he is, then there is no question he replaces Turris.

Murray didn't sign Turris for 5 years to be a top six winger, he signed him to play behind Spezza and grow into the #1 guy.

The fans of Colorado are already getting antsy due to the team's performance, the pressure is only going to grow.

Murray signed Turris to make the team better in the same way that if he trades for O'Reilly it is to make the team better. Sending Turris the other way would not make the team better by much. If they move for O'Reilly they have a plan in mind and Turris would be part of it. Whether that's running them at 3 centres or moving one of them to the wing (likely Turris as he has played there before).

Why are people so opposed to moving Turris to Spezza's wing if O'Reilly is acquired? It's mind boggling really. It wouldn't even be an issue for most of this season.

 

[Cornelius Brover]

Turris would be sniping his wrist shots more easily picking steam on the wing or sliding into open spaces anyways. RoR would be one the best two-way #2 C in the league if not the best and guess what, we have the pieces to make a move for him.

 

[CarknerCountry]

Most 22 years olds are more advanced than a 19 year old, it just the way things are, so any comparison between ROR and Zib is just foolish.

I have no issue with trading for ROR and giving up a quality piece to acquire him, if he solved the biggest hole the Sens currently have at a reasonable price.

IMO he doesn't meet the criteria I have at the moment. While his salary demands may change, I don't believe Turris moving to the wing is the answer to the Sens biggest weakness.

While you did supply some evidence that Turris has played on the wing, there is really nothing that suggests he would be a consistent contributor as a top six winger based on such a small sample size.

Regarding Subban, if you haven't noticed this board suffers from "player envy". Any and every player that is having contract issues, placed on waivers or are subject of trade talks, a percentage of posters want Murray to go get them.

Then try and peddle Silf i hate this age crap...If Zib becomes ROR id be happy as hell...ROR can still improve..

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I think Zib is going to be a good player in the NHL. Even if his detractors are right about his lack of hockey IQ, he has the size speed and shot to be a top six winger.

At 19 years he is bigger and stronger than Turris and as he matures this will only be magnified.

He needs to actually use that size to be effective.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I could just be that no GM is going to make a move for O'Reilly until his healthy? He has an ankle injury right now and isn't fit to play. No point in making a move for someone that can't play for you right now anyway. Not only does it give you a chance to make sure that ROR can come back fully healthy, but it also gives you a better chance to evaluate your team and what you would be willing to part with for him.

If a GM has the opportunity to get a 22 year old center with #1 potential at a fair price he doesn't wait, he gets medical opinions and if they pass the muster he pulls the trigger.

Murray signed Turris to make the team better in the same way that if he trades for O'Reilly it is to make the team better. Sending Turris the other way would not make the team better by much. If they move for O'Reilly they have a plan in mind and Turris would be part of it. Whether that's running them at 3 centres or moving one of them to the wing (likely Turris as he has played there before).

I honestly can't believe you wrote this.

Why are people so opposed to moving Turris to Spezza's wing if O'Reilly is acquired? It's mind boggling really. It wouldn't even be an issue for most of this season.

I am opposed to it because Spezza needs a big, strong winger that can retrieve pucks, be a net presence and be physically strong enough to battle to get to scoring areas.

This is in addition to Michalek.

IMO Turris doesn't fit that bill at all, actually Greening is a better fit.

Murray needs to give his most effective points producer proven wingers to play with, or this team isn't going to be a true contender.

I realize trying anything this year isn't really a problem, but acquiring ROR isn't just about this year.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

In our current state, ROR is a better #1 center option than Turris. Now that Turris is drawing the opponents' best match up, he's struggled. I think ROR could get better results subbing as a #1 center as of now.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

He needs to actually use that size to be effective.

He does and he is improving.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

He does and he is improving.

At times, but needs to do it consistently.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Which is totally fine since, unlike with Turris, 2C isn't a pressing need

If we have to overpay for anything, I want a 1st line winger or a legit #3D-man.

You're focused too much on position, instead of the player. O'Reilly is a 55 point, Selke nominee that has many, many years left at 22 years of age. He's Patrice Bergeron in the making. He's worth overpaying for, even if he is a centerman.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

You're focused too much on position, instead of the player. O'Reilly is a 55 point, Selke nominee that has many, many years left at 22 years of age. He's Patrice Bergeron in the making. He's worth overpaying for, even if he is a centerman.

Bergeron is way more offensively skilled than O'Reilly.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Then try and peddle Silf i hate this age crap...If Zib becomes ROR id be happy as hell...ROR can still improve..

If you hate the age crap then I guess you think the draft is only to acquire prospects to fill out an AHL roster or trade away.

Why peddle Silf, he is playing quite well, adjusting well to the NA game, now being asked to adjust to his off wing. He set up two nice goals in the last two games and scored a beauty in the shootout.

If anyone can predict the future I sure as hell haven't heard about this person. No one knows for certain what the limits for ROR or Zib are, its all just predictions based current performance and demonstrated learning curve over time.

IMO, Zib will probably improve significantly more than ROR over the next 3 years, but does that mean Zib will be equal to or better than ROR? No one knows for sure.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

At times, but needs to do it consistently.

No disagreement, but how many 19-24 years old players are consistent?

The Sens currently have 10 guys 24 years old or younger on the roster, none of them have been overly consistent.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

After reading O'Reilly's dad open letter and subsequently reading some of his twitter posts I don't think I'm very comfortable with the idea that we might have to pay a high price to get this kid: he's his own man and all but I have a hard time seeing RoR not being a complete tool if he was raised by this nujob.

 

[Ohhh Franco]

San Jose is in need of a shake up. Would they be willing to part with Dan Boyle? Could be a short term/two year fix...or more? Sens certainly have the cap space and a local, free wheeling DMan would probably make Murray/MacLean hard!

2013-2014 D Depth

Karlsson - Methot
Boyle - Cowen
Wiercioch - Phillips
Benoit, Gryba, Boro

 

[trobby]

After reading O'Reilly's dad open letter and subsequently reading some of his twitter posts I don't think I'm very comfortable with the idea that we might have to pay a high price to get this kid: he's his own man and all but I have a hard time seeing RoR not being a complete tool if he was raised by this nujob.

I agree...keep RoR and his DaD away from here...

 

[SensHero]

If a GM has the opportunity to get a 22 year old center with #1 potential at a fair price he doesn't wait, he gets medical opinions and if they pass the muster he pulls the trigger.

He does if his team is already depleted and ROR is still weeks away. It would be like throwing in the towel on the season.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

No disagreement, but how many 19-24 years old players are consistent?

The Sens currently have 10 guys 24 years old or younger on the roster, none of them have been overly consistent.

Physicality is something you can do consistently at any age.

 

[Smitty26]

boyle would be nice, but ottawa wont give what san jose will ask for.

 

[Benjamin]

San Jose is in need of a shake up. Would they be willing to part with Dan Boyle? Could be a short term/two year fix...or more? Sens certainly have the cap space and a local, free wheeling DMan would probably make Murray/MacLean hard!

2013-2014 D Depth

Karlsson - Methot
Boyle - Cowen
Wiercioch - Phillips
Benoit, Gryba, Boro

Nothing. Sens are rebuilding.

 

[YNWA14]

Taking Turris out of the line-up and putting O'Reilly in right now isn't going to help us that much. Yes, O'Reilly is a better player, but Turris is offensively talented and defensively sound right now also. We would be getting O'Reilly to complement Turris not to replace him.

We figure out the middle situation when Spezza gets back. Until then we ride two young very talented centres, a responsible defensive core and the hottest goaltender in the league.

O'Reilly right now could be a key pick up if this organization wants to win a Stanley Cup. I can't be the only person that has question marks about Zibanejad (hence why we would have to add Wierchioch to the deal). I like Zibanejad's tools and maybe one day that switch turns on in his head, but it's so hard to count on that when you have an option like ROR in front of you.

I won't be upset if we don't make the deal...maybe a little disappointed, but I would be ecstatic if we did make it.

Physicality is something you can do consistently at any age.

This. It's been shown quite a few times that generally physicality can't be taught. It's just something you have ingrained at an early age. Obviously there are exceptions, but ultimately there are very few examples of players that become physical when they weren't before.

 

[TrueGrit]

Physicality is something you can do consistently at any age.

Disagree, establishing a consistent presence game in, game out at the NHL level takes time. Mika has never faced competition or a schedule of this difficulty in his career

 

[Holdurbreathe]

He does if his team is already depleted and ROR is still weeks away. It would be like throwing in the towel on the season.

So now the only place ROR can be traded is to the Senators??

Sather was willing to part with a solid package for ROR, waiting a few weeks didn't seem to be a concern.