Rumor: Trade Rumour Thread II: TraDe for Every111!!

[Kershaw]

This made me laugh way harder than it should have.

lol.

I'm sorry, but I'm always gonna refer to this whenever Stepan has a good game. Too hilarious.

 

[HonestGabe]

What happens when Cally and Kreider return to the lineup? I think Boyle plays MUCH better in a checking line role like he did tonight with Asham and Halpern which is in theory the perfect 4th line. I want to see the Rangers make a move for Stephen Weiss. Probably would cost them a good prospect and 2nd/3rd pick. It would balance out the lineup and give us more possibilities and combinations to work with. I'd like to see if we could get Weiss and the lines would look like this...

Gaborik Richards Nash
Kreider Weiss Callahan
Hagelin Stepan Pyatt
Halpern Boyle Asham
Ferreiro

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Del Zotto
Stralman Gilroy
Eminger

Me gusta.

Much better and stronger IMO.

 

[Leetch3]

What happens when Cally and Kreider return to the lineup? I think Boyle plays MUCH better in a checking line role like he did tonight with Asham and Halpern which is in theory the perfect 4th line. I want to see the Rangers make a move for Stephen Weiss. Probably would cost them a good prospect and 2nd/3rd pick. It would balance out the lineup and give us more possibilities and combinations to work with. I'd like to see if we could get Weiss and the lines would look like this...

Gaborik Richards Nash
Kreider Weiss Callahan
Hagelin Stepan Pyatt
Halpern Boyle Asham
Ferreiro

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Del Zotto
Stralman Gilroy
Eminger

Me gusta.

Much better and stronger IMO.

the price for weiss will likely be too high but damn this would be nice

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

What happens when Cally and Kreider return to the lineup? I think Boyle plays MUCH better in a checking line role like he did tonight with Asham and Halpern which is in theory the perfect 4th line. I want to see the Rangers make a move for Stephen Weiss. Probably would cost them a good prospect and 2nd/3rd pick. It would balance out the lineup and give us more possibilities and combinations to work with. I'd like to see if we could get Weiss and the lines would look like this...

Gaborik Richards Nash
Kreider Weiss Callahan
Hagelin Stepan Pyatt
Halpern Boyle Asham
Ferreiro

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Del Zotto
Stralman Gilroy
Eminger

Me gusta.

Much better and stronger IMO.

Dream lineup that could go to battle against the best in the league in a 7 game series. Interested to see the reaction of the other armchair GMs since I got ridiculed for proposing the exact same move but for pieces that would cost significantly less than Weiss. Cue the "51 pointZzzz! Stepan is not a 3Comg!!?!

 

[Kershaw]

I'd rather get a competent defenseman to patrol the 3rd pairing. That's our biggest need right now.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I'd love to know who those 4 "regular" posters are....this conversation about stepan has become disturbing.

On a side note, Stepan looked much, much better

Probably just a few of the 15 or so regulars who hit me up to support my opinions every time I post something that's met with massive disapproval. Really, an unbeatable defense. Oh yeah? Well, even though everyone has disagreed with me in this thread, I know I'm right because of all the private messages that you can't see telling me I'm special. Bravo.





As if it was necessary

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

I'd rather get a competent defenseman to patrol the 3rd pairing. That's our biggest need right now.

hmm really? im fine with gilroy - stralman as the 3rd pairing so long as theyre matched up well in limited minutes. Which is the case as we all know Torts likes to ride his horses. Eminger can play as well should someone get injured

 

[Kershaw]

hmm really? im fine with gilroy - stralman as the 3rd pairing so long as theyre matched up well in limited minutes. Which is the case as we all know Torts likes to ride his horses. Eminger can play as well should someone get injured

limited minutes, that's a problem.

You roll 2 defense pairings and our biggest components to our team is gassed in time for the playoffs.

 

[Leetch3]

limited minutes, that's a problem.

You roll 2 defense pairings and our biggest components to our team is gassed in time for the playoffs.

23-25 minutes per game isn't alot for top dmen and is about what our top 4 should be getting...you run into a problem when mcdonagh and girardi are playing 29-30 minutes...

top 2 pairs at 24 minutes each with the 3rd pair that can give us 12 solid minutes is a nice split for this team.

 

[Kershaw]

23-25 minutes per game isn't alot for top dmen and is about what our top 4 should be getting...you run into a problem when mcdonagh and girardi are playing 29-30 minutes...

top 2 pairs at 24 minutes each with the 3rd pair that can give us 12 solid minutes is a nice split for this team.

We have yet to find this 3rd pair.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

limited minutes, that's a problem.

You roll 2 defense pairings and our biggest components to our team is gassed in time for the playoffs.

In a 48 game season? Our top 4 were gassed last year because of 82 games + 2 7-round series and another 6 in the ECF. Not really realistic for them to be gassed in a 48 game season

23-25 minutes per game isn't alot for top dmen and is about what our top 4 should be getting...you run into a problem when mcdonagh and girardi are playing 29-30 minutes...

top 2 pairs at 24 minutes each with the 3rd pair that can give us 12 solid minutes is a nice split for this team.

This

We have yet to find this 3rd pair.

Dare I say it but Gilroy looks really good. Like I said theres always Eminger who has proven he can be steady down the stretch. Its really too early to tell if our 3rd pair needs help..dont see how you could consider it our biggest need at the moment

 

[Kershaw]

In a 48 game season? Our top 4 were gassed last year because of 82 games + 2 7-round series and another 6 in the ECF. Not really realistic for them to be gassed in a 48 game season

Still, I would like actual NHL players that can make simple plays to get out of our own end to play here. And you can't have too much depth. What if Staal hurts his head again? Girardi blocks a shot to his foot and leaves like Callahan vs. Chara? Relying to heavily on the top 4 will inevitably screw us over if any of them get hurt. It doesn't hurt to acquire a Jordan Leopold, who can adequately play top 4 minutes like he has throughout his career to fill in a big role if one of the defenders do get hurt.

Dare I say it but Gilroy looks really good. Like I said theres always Eminger who has proven he can be steady down the stretch. Its really too early to tell if our 3rd pair needs help..dont see how you could consider it our biggest need at the moment

I'm a big fan of Gilroy, but he's had his like 3rd good game in 100_ attempts with the Rangers. He also only played 9 minutes, so he's hardly gained Torts' trust. Eminger lacks footspeed and has no trust with Torts since last year. Both are far from locks as regulars, but are great 7-8 defensmen. Adding a competent player to that 3rd pairing with Stralman won't gas out our players.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Still, I would like actual NHL players that can make simple plays to get out of our own end to play here. And you can't have too much depth. What if Staal hurts his head again? Girardi blocks a shot to his foot and leaves like Callahan vs. Chara? Relying to heavily on the top 4 will inevitably screw us over if any of them get hurt. It doesn't hurt to acquire a Jordan Leopold, who can adequately play top 4 minutes like he has throughout his career to fill in a big role if one of the defenders do get hurt.



I'm a big fan of Gilroy, but he's had his like 3rd good game in 100_ attempts with the Rangers. He also only played 9 minutes, so he's hardly gained Torts' trust. Eminger lacks footspeed and has no trust with Torts since last year. Both are far from locks as regulars, but are great 7-8 defensmen. Adding a competent player to that 3rd pairing with Stralman won't gas out our players.

I hear you. Another solid 3rd pairing D is always good but I wouldn't want to give up anything of significance.

How about:

to NYR:

J. Jokinen
J. McBain

to CAR:

B. Boyle
S. Bickel
2013 3rd

if healthy leaves you with

Gaborik - Richards - Nash
Hagelin - Jokinen - Callahan
Pyatt - Stepan - Kreider
Rupp - Halpern - Asham
Ferriero

Girardi - McDonagh
Staal - DelZotto
Stralman - McBain
Gilroy/Eminger

CAR needs a 3C (Boyle) and we get our bottom pairing d-man and an offensive upgrade in Jokinen. The 2nd and 3rd lines can be flip-flopped depending on opposing team/performance etc as they are basically 2 second lines.. extremely deep. Not to mention the inevitable shootout points you potentially get with Jokinen

And for all the NHL scouts here that think Jokinen can't play center, here's a post I found from a Hurricanes fan (which happened to be followed by more of the same):

Quote:
Originally Posted by iiTzLaMia View Post
No he is LW

He plays both. He's playing center right now.

Jussi is a pretty versatile player. When he was put on the top line with Staal, he produced very well. When he was asked to play with Skinner and Ruutu on the 2nd line, it was the Canes most effective line. This season, they pretty much asked him to "take one for the team". They didn't have a viable 3C so have him playing that role in a defensive manner without any offensive wingers (Bowman and Dwyer are his wingers tonight).

People will look at his stats and under-rate him because of this, but he's a pretty skilled guy who can play a skilled game and a defensive game depending on what you need from him.

 

[bernmeister]

I agree. I'm worried. He's starting to look like he's declining. Hope not.

Don't believe he's declined THAT much in recent years, he has enough in the tank to be likely valued for 3, maybe 4 years, then likely opt out of smaller contract.

But that is not the key issue for us.
We will need lots of ability to sign our core in about 2-3 years.
At that point, diminishing cap + big contract = huge problem.

So we either hold on to Richards and dump him with the buyout at the last possible moment (otherwise a foregone conclusion)
or
we trade him, try to get something for him even if we are not upgrading, and retain a potentially useful buyout,

it's expensive, but it does allow us to keep Gaborik, and sign McD, etc.

 

[RGY]

Dream lineup that could go to battle against the best in the league in a 7 game series. Interested to see the reaction of the other armchair GMs since I got ridiculed for proposing the exact same move but for pieces that would cost significantly less than Weiss. Cue the "51 pointZzzz! Stepan is not a 3Comg!!?!

You need to pay attention more when people respond to you.

People are not saying Derek Stepan is the next Brad Richards or even that he is going to be a better NHLer at the end of his career than say....Patrick Sharp. But the way you go after him is disgusting, it is quite honestly painful reading your posts. He is 22 years old. No one (at least I wasn't) as adamantly opposed to a Jussi Jokinen or an Antropov (though again they would not even be my 3rd choice) but you were the one bringing stepan into the debate for no reason. You were trying to justify how they would be upgrades over Stepan when they simply are not. They aren't. And they are much older players with more years in this league to boot. No one here is giddy over stepan because he put up 51 points. Read the damn posts. People here are simply saying you have stepan on an ELC who's stats have increased from year one to year two, he is 22 years old, with leadership qualities, has been successful on multiple levels, good playmaking ability, a pretty smart player overall, responsible, and fits the rangers system to a T. Yes he has struggled but there should not be one fan here packing his bags in a trade. He has a lot of promise. You were the one who brought up antropov and jokinen's stats. The posters here simply mentioned the 51 points in addition to all the other benefits listed above to stepan's game to disprove you that there is no upgrade with the players you so desire.

And thus far:

Stepan: 5 points in 8 GP

Antropov: 3 points in 8 GP
J.Jokinen: 0 points in 7 GP


What's the excuse this year? Because in the last two pages you proclaimed he rode "shotgun" to gaborik last season (when he absolutely did not). And that's with young Derek struggling. (Yes I'm going to call him young derek just to make you feel even more like an imbecile). He played with Pyatt and Hagelin tonight. Is he riding "shotgun" to them? Just stop. Give another topic a try to gain back some credibility of knowledge and respect. And I'm being serious with that, been around here for years, it's okay to admit you're wrong, it is more respectable than fighting a fight that you will not win endlessly.

 

[RGY]

I hear you. Another solid 3rd pairing D is always good but I wouldn't want to give up anything of significance.

How about:

to NYR:

J. Jokinen
J. McBain

to CAR:

B. Boyle
S. Bickel
2013 3rd

if healthy leaves you with

Gaborik - Richards - Nash
Hagelin - Jokinen - Callahan
Pyatt - Stepan - Kreider
Rupp - Halpern - Asham
Ferriero

Girardi - McDonagh
Staal - DelZotto
Stralman - McBain
Gilroy/Eminger

CAR needs a 3C (Boyle) and we get our bottom pairing d-man and an offensive upgrade in Jokinen. The 2nd and 3rd lines can be flip-flopped depending on opposing team/performance etc as they are basically 2 second lines.. extremely deep. Not to mention the inevitable shootout points you potentially get with Jokinen

And for all the NHL scouts here that think Jokinen can't play center, here's a post I found from a Hurricanes fan (which happened to be followed by more of the same):

Jim Rutherford picks up the phone, chuckles, and asks is this really Glen Sather? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee.

But seriously, Bickel and Boyle for two players that outweigh there value? What do you think this is? And to be honest, Torts loves Boyle, which, makes me love these countless proposals that involve Boyle as if he has value in the eyes of other NHL teams. He is a former first round pick who can barely put up 30 points. He fits the rangers system and thats why we would give him more credit but geez stop trying to put him in proposals for players who either have had better NHL careers or are just starting their career with more potential. Plus again Boyle is a Tort's guy.

 

[bernmeister]

Many of the issues people are calling out have existed for much longer than these 7 games. That said, the people in the trade Stepan and fire Torts crowds need to step back from the ledge a bit. It has been said for years, however, that this system stifles creativity. It doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it is a valid criticism of the Torts brand of hockey we have. However, saying "this team" was in the ECF last year and first in the East is a fallacy. Only in name is it true. There has been a good amount of roster turnover; this team hasn't proven anything. The team that made it to the ECF was actually a deeper team than this one, and it had a much stronger identity and played a specific system to near perfection. The reason it didn't make the SCF is probably because it ran out of gas by burning out its top players, especially on defense, with huge minutes down the stretch. That's an issue that looks not only to continue this season, but actually be worse as we are thinner up front and we're still playing our top two pairings 50 minutes a night. But this team not only lacks depth, it lacks that adhesion to the system that made it successful in years past. Yes, absolutely, part of that is the new pieces needing time to pick it up and perfect it. But part of it was that the pieces were the right pieces last year. Asham is never going replace Prust. Pyatt's role is different from any role that was played last year. This is not the same team that was so close to the SCF; all bets are off.

And moreover, it's more than likely, and I have been suggesting from the get go, that while this team IS a good hockey team, we over-performed last season. Hagelin is not going to produce at the rate he did last season. Callahan had a career year; I will bet someone a Rangers jersey that when Callahan retires we will look back on '11-12 as his best offensive season. Dubinsky, who people were happy to be rid of, had a career worst year. Yeah, now he's in Columbus, it will be hard to judge his offensive stats and he may continue not to produce, but he had been a very strong contributor for us every year until last. Kreider still has every chance in the world to be a good player for us, not just in the future, but later this year when he's healthy. That said, he's not going to light up the world like we hoped and he's not really as ready as we thought. I'd like to see him get legitimate top-six minutes because I think that's the only way to gauge if he's really going to be effective this year or not; playing him on the third line, as it's assembled, is a waste. That all said, Richards is a year older and, while still plenty good, we can hardly expect him to get better. Some of our guys over-performed and other guys (Dubi) we underestimated the importance of because they under performed. We lost center depth, and overall forward depth, and we have some unresolved issues that really should have been addressed in the off-season.

After the playoff game where Bickel played 3 minutes in a night where Girardi and McDonagh were forced to play over 50 each (OT game in round 2) it should have been clear and obvious that we would be adding a d-man in the offseason. Somehow, we didn't. Why? Rupp and Asham put forth noble efforts and Rupp is a likable guy and probably a great teammate, but both are past their sell-by dates. Signing Brashear was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Boogard, which was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Rupp, which was a mistake and he's still here and somehow we signed Asham but not that important #6 dman. Why? None of them panned out. It should be obvious that the Prust/Ferriero mold (younger, faster) is what works for Torts' system and the old, slow guys are not a solution for us but it, apparently, isn't. Why? There are genuine issues that exist with this team. I hear you when you say you can't stand our fanbase right now and people are crazy. But that's also not to say you can dismiss some of the genuine arguments that are being made and that have been presented going back to last year and beyond.

great post agree with much of it.

couple of points:
fire torts is required due to lack of creativity, but more important excessive wear and tear of 'overemphasized d first so evident last year

Trade Stepan is less a dump on DS than it is that he is really the only marketable NHL experienced asset we have available for potential upgrade. We don't want to discount our top prospects or trade our top guys.
Any one I've overlooked, feel free to call me out on it.

Trading Richards is also not let's show him the door for the sake of change, but is driven by salary and cap realities. If we are keeping Gabby, Nash, Hank, we have no other big salaries to consider.

 

[bernmeister]

I think Gabby & Richards have NTC's ...so they are here to stay . Probably means Gabby walks away at next season end and we get nothing for him at the trade deadline .

I believe Richards has a limited one, at a certain point he has to provide short list of teams he would consider move to. Note this is from memory, I am not sure.

Richards can't hold vs, us and we have no need to apologize for the CAB which changes the dynamic of our being able to afford him + guys coming off ELC or cheaper contracts.

So he might accept a deal if it were a good situation, maybe sooner than later.

If not we have to use our remaining buyout on him. We can't afford his deal now.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I don't understand the inclusion of Stu in trades. His value has to be hovering just above zero.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

You need to pay attention more when people respond to you.

People are not saying Derek Stepan is the next Brad Richards or even that he is going to be a better NHLer at the end of his career than say....Patrick Sharp. But the way you go after him is disgusting, it is quite honestly painful reading your posts. He is 22 years old. No one (at least I wasn't) as adamantly opposed to a Jussi Jokinen or an Antropov (though again they would not even be my 3rd choice) but you were the one bringing stepan into the debate for no reason. You were trying to justify how they would be upgrades over Stepan when they simply are not. They aren't. And they are much older players with more years in this league to boot. No one here is giddy over stepan because he put up 51 points. Read the damn posts. People here are simply saying you have stepan on an ELC who's stats have increased from year one to year two, he is 22 years old, with leadership qualities, has been successful on multiple levels, good playmaking ability, a pretty smart player overall, responsible, and fits the rangers system to a T. Yes he has struggled but there should not be one fan here packing his bags in a trade. He has a lot of promise. You were the one who brought up antropov and jokinen's stats. The posters here simply mentioned the 51 points in addition to all the other benefits listed above to stepan's game to disprove you that there is no upgrade with the players you so desire.

And thus far:

Stepan: 5 points in 8 GP

Antropov: 3 points in 8 GP
J.Jokinen: 0 points in 7 GP


What's the excuse this year? Because in the last two pages you proclaimed he rode "shotgun" to gaborik last season (when he absolutely did not). And that's with young Derek struggling. (Yes I'm going to call him young derek just to make you feel even more like an imbecile). He played with Pyatt and Hagelin tonight. Is he riding "shotgun" to them? Just stop. Give another topic a try to gain back some credibility of knowledge and respect. And I'm being serious with that, been around here for years, it's okay to admit you're wrong, it is more respectable than fighting a fight that you will not win endlessly.

Certainly not.. I want Stepan on my team. I like his game and he's only going to get better. There's no shame in saying that Stepan is not a 2C on an elite team at 22 RIGHT NOW. The difference in opinions here I think is what type of 2C would benefit the team more. I would prefer an offensively gifted player at 2C over a defensive minded player. Considering who is in our division I don't think this is an unrealistic request. If you think that Stepan has a better offensive skillset than the (2) players I mentioned than I don't know what to say to you.

As far as the tail end of this gem of a post. I appreciate you looking out for me, since you've been here so long, but the gum on my shoe means more to me than what you or anyone else anywhere in the world thinks. Also, since you obviously know Torts personally, could you ask him who else he loves next time you see him? My vote goes to Bickel

Jim Rutherford picks up the phone, chuckles, and asks is this really Glen Sather? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee.

But seriously, Bickel and Boyle for two players that outweigh there value? What do you think this is? And to be honest, Torts loves Boyle, which, makes me love these countless proposals that involve Boyle as if he has value in the eyes of other NHL teams. He is a former first round pick who can barely put up 30 points. He fits the rangers system and thats why we would give him more credit but geez stop trying to put him in proposals for players who either have had better NHL careers or are just starting their career with more potential. Plus again Boyle is a Tort's guy.

Help me out then dawg. What would we need to add? My proposal was more of a starting point

 

[RGY]

Certainly not.. I want Stepan on my team. I like his game and he's only going to get better. There's no shame in saying that Stepan is not a 2C on an elite team at 22 RIGHT NOW. The difference in opinions here I think is what type of 2C would benefit the team more. I would prefer an offensively gifted player at 2C over a defensive minded player. Considering who is in our division I don't think this is an unrealistic request. If you think that Stepan has a better offensive skillset than the (2) players I mentioned than I don't know what to say to you.

As far as the tail end of this gem of a post. I appreciate you looking out for me, since you've been here so long, but the gum on my shoe means more to me than what you or anyone else anywhere in the world thinks. Also, since you obviously know Torts personally, could you ask him who else he loves next time you see him? My vote goes to Bickel



Help me out then dawg. What would we need to add? My proposal was more of a starting point

Don't be a wise ass here. No one has time for it. I gave you a substantial response as to why you were wrong, or let's say the majority here disagree with you, but in a more humane way; and you ignored a lot of the facts and reasoning behind those facts. You want to live on fantasy island, by all means go for it. But like many have suggested already, this is the NHL of 2013, not a decade ago or two decades ago. 51 points is a more than serviceable 2nd line center. To think stepan is more defensive minded is quite baseless. He may favor the defensive game but many of the rangers players do because that is how Torts runs his team. You can bring in a Jokinen or an Antropov and they could end up looking just as defensive....or they end up getting little ice time because they are not playing the "team" game. And I am not here saying Torts is wrong. I like the way he coaches. But you are looking at these names thinking they will come here and do these wondrous things that for some reason our current players just can't do. Take the blinders off. And not every team has a Crosby and Malkin as a 1-2. Look around at the other ECF teams. Look at the #2 center. Now there will be teams with a better one than Stepan, BUT not many. You talk about our own division, what #2 center is so drastically better than stepan on the devils, islanders, and flyers? Do tell.

But either way after you wrote "dawg" in your post to cover up how piss poor your trade proposal was this is the last time I will try to find the common ground with you, and not so much for me but for the rest of the members here that tried so hard to explain to you the discrepancies in your thought process. Enjoy the season.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

What happens when Cally and Kreider return to the lineup? I think Boyle plays MUCH better in a checking line role like he did tonight with Asham and Halpern which is in theory the perfect 4th line. I want to see the Rangers make a move for Stephen Weiss. Probably would cost them a good prospect and 2nd/3rd pick. It would balance out the lineup and give us more possibilities and combinations to work with. I'd like to see if we could get Weiss and the lines would look like this...

Gaborik Richards Nash
Kreider Weiss Callahan
Hagelin Stepan Pyatt
Halpern Boyle Asham
Ferreiro

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Del Zotto
Stralman Gilroy
Eminger

Me gusta.

Much better and stronger IMO.

So the Rangers are acquiring Weiss without giving up an NHL roster player? Thats a nice world you live in.

 

[Vitto79]

Would love Weiss but he will cost alot. Lets get Kreider back next game and see what he can do. Calmly will be back pretty soon. I am for the dman rental for a 3rd and either gilroyvor eminger

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

great post agree with much of it.

couple of points:
fire torts is required due to lack of creativity, but more important excessive wear and tear of 'overemphasized d first so evident last year

Trade Stepan is less a dump on DS than it is that he is really the only marketable NHL experienced asset we have available for potential upgrade. We don't want to discount our top prospects or trade our top guys.
Any one I've overlooked, feel free to call me out on it.

Trading Richards is also not let's show him the door for the sake of change, but is driven by salary and cap realities. If we are keeping Gabby, Nash, Hank, we have no other big salaries to consider.

And no other centers, whoops.

 

[HonestGabe]

So the Rangers are acquiring Weiss without giving up an NHL roster player? Thats a nice world you live in.

You think the Panthers wouldn't accept a return of JT Miller and a 2nd? Or McIlrath + Fast + 2nd?