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Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VII: Shake Up

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Gary Lawless wrote a column on the Winnipeg Jets atmosphere in the room

There is a hierarchy in the Jets dressing room and at the top is a group of players who bonded together in Atlanta. Those friendships are taking precedence over results and they are rotting away any chance of success for the Jets.

Andrew Ladd, Blake Wheeler, Bryan Little, Toby Enstrom and Dustin Byfuglien. All talented, all well-paid and secure. And all at the top of an underachieving team.
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http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...-clique-too-soft-on-themselves-234867221.html

Don't forget about Kane,Pavelec and Bogosian. All of them are well paid.

Brooks wrote a column on the Rangers not having success with the Columbus players. Neil Smith once made a comment about why he traded for the Oiler guys. Those guys were winners. They came from a winning environment. Is there a major difference between the Columbus and Atlanta/Winnipeg players? Those two franchises haven't done much winning.
 
RangerBoy said:
Gary Lawless wrote a column on the Winnipeg Jets atmosphere in the room



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...-clique-too-soft-on-themselves-234867221.html

Don't forget about Kane,Pavelec and Bogosian. All of them are well paid.

Brooks wrote a column on the Rangers not having success with the Columbus players. Neil Smith once made a comment about why he traded for the Oiler guys. Those guys were winners. They came from a winning environment. Is there a major difference between the Columbus and Atlanta/Winnipeg players? Those two franchises haven't done much winning.
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Winnipeg got all their players from Chicago, though. Why aren't they winning?
 
Raspewtin said:
I really enjoy that he does that considering I'm not interested in paying for it :).

What does pro-Nash even mean?
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I think most were on board for trading for Nash with what we gave at the time. Held onto top prospects. Held onto young ELC players. Gave up guys slotted onto our 3rd line, maybe 2nd for a bonafide 1st line player and talent.

It was considered the best case scenario. Draft selection would be 30th. We were on a high from the ECF and felt based on need, lack of goals, Nash put them over the top.

Everything has gone downhill since and people link the trade to causing that. It is a series of decisions after and even before the trade that hurt. Prust was not resigned. Nobody was brought to replace him. Feds walked and Pyatt was to replace him. Kreider and Miller would replace Dubi and Artie. Trading picks for Clowe. Signing the guys we did this offseason. Retaining Richards for this season. Firing Torts. Hiring AV is not a mistake. Only thing that happened I agreed with was the Gaborik trade, he was not coming back after this season.

Torts should have gotten a full camp and at least start of the season to see if this team was regressing or if they were just off from the lockout. Beyond that, at this kind of a start, he would have been fired. Shuffle staff and try and get something rolling then. Hire interim coach and have him run out the string. Reassess after season ends with pending UFAS. Right now, they do not have that option to fire AV. His track record is not of a minor league coach. You cannot remove him 30 games into a season.
 
-31- said:
I'm not into a long-haul rebuild. Ideally (for me), they would trade Callahan and Girardi for a combination of picks/prospects and controllable roster players. Pick up drafts picks for other UFAs not in the team's plans. In the summer, move aggressively to get a PP QB. Look for undervalued UFAs.

4. Profit
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This is completely reasonable. You need to build a long lasting philosophy around asset management. "Sell everyone"/tank is a shortsighted idea that is not guaranteed to work. We do have pieces to build around.
 
-31- said:
I'm not into a long-haul rebuild. Ideally (for me), they would trade Callahan and Girardi for a combination of picks/prospects and controllable roster players. Pick up drafts picks for other UFAs not in the team's plans. In the summer, move aggressively to get a PP QB. Look for undervalued UFAs.

4. Profit
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This is pretty much where the team is at. This is the only reasonable option to improve without a full rebuild.

It has to be a combination of roster players and picks/prospects. If all they bring back is picks and prospects it is not going to do anything for this team's success. I just don't see them drafting that "out-of-the-box" NHL ready stud center or winger.
 
RangerBoy said:
Gary Lawless wrote a column on the Winnipeg Jets atmosphere in the room



http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...-clique-too-soft-on-themselves-234867221.html

Don't forget about Kane,Pavelec and Bogosian. All of them are well paid.

Brooks wrote a column on the Rangers not having success with the Columbus players. Neil Smith once made a comment about why he traded for the Oiler guys. Those guys were winners. They came from a winning environment. Is there a major difference between the Columbus and Atlanta/Winnipeg players? Those two franchises haven't done much winning.
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I don't like the term "winners". Brad Richards, Ruslan Fedotenko, and Mike Rupp were "winners". Their presence didn't win us anything. I get that you wouldn't want somebody from a losing culture, but I just want someone that hates losing. Because those guys give it their all every night.

Do we just discredit that because they haven't won a cup?
 
Raspewtin said:
I don't like the term "winners". Brad Richards, Ruslan Fedotenko, and Mike Rupp were "winners". Their presence didn't win us anything. I get that you wouldn't want somebody from a losing culture, but I just want someone that hates losing. Because those guys give it their all every night.

Do we just discredit that because they haven't won a cup?
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I would hate that loser Iginla on this team. Future first ballot Hall of Famer has never won anything besides what Rick Nash has also won. Couple of losers.
 
-31- said:
Think that would be a huge mistake.
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RangerBoy said:
Then they should be prepared to give Callahan a long-term contract for big dollars. That is what it will take to keep him from leaving as a free agent.
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Callahan is not worth the 4+ he is getting now. He has been playing at a very low level for a while but I don't see Sather doing it. He'll do his best to resign him. Which is probably a lose-lose scenario.

One question we need to consider: will Callahan even be healthy at the trade deadline? If they make the decision to move Callahan it needs to be done as soon as he puts together a string of healthy games. The possibility that Cally can get nicked up and end up on IR through the trade deadlines is extremely high.
 
-31- said:
Winnipeg got all their players from Chicago, though. Why aren't they winning?
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Exactly. I think the franchise made appropriate moves with the exception of the top flight talent. Losing Hossa (via Heatley) and Kovalchuk for essentially nothing is what killed the team, not the source of their players or the locker room. If they had Hossa and Kovalchuk with that core, they would be a significant team.

Chicago was a horrible atmosphere until their drafted pieces, following the passing of the senior wertz, hit NHL ice. The rangers' confidence, atmosphere, attitude, work ethic would be different with one or two more world class talents. One forward with Nash and an offensive guy with MCD.

Edmonton has a terrible philosophy. When you draft only offense, pay your forwards a ransom before they produce, and ignore defense and goaltending needs, you send the message that accountability and responsibility are not required.
 
The question remains, has Evander Kane ever done anything in his NHL career noteworthy?

Have his teams ever made it to the playoffs? Ever accomplished anything?

Winnipeg nearly made it to the playoffs last year. Why couldn't Kane put them over the top? Star players have the ability to do that. Why didn't he?

Another question remains. For the most part, this board has complained and complained about Sather and his inability to construct a well balanced team with an identity. There have been complaints about Sather's insistence on using bandaids and holding on to the illusion that 1 or 2 trades will make his team a cup contender.

Now the second the possibility of another shiny toy comes up and everyone is arguing about how Kane is exactly what this team needs? Isn't this exactly what has gotten us in this mess already?

He's not. He has talent. Where is his leadership? Where is his ability to turn on another level and make sure his actions lead his team to the playoffs? Someone responded to one of my posts earlier (where I said he didn't care about his team not making it into the playoffs) with "clearly you didn't see his angry tirade about continuously missing the playoffs"? What's the difference between his angry twitter tirade and the Rangers closed door meeting? Nothing. It's all talk. His actions don't back up what he has to say.

I'm absolutely NOT in favor of adding another talented poster boy who has an inability to lead and put his money where his mouth is. I don't care how talented he is. This city will eat him up. We need a specific type of player and mentality to come into this city, with all these distractions, with all this fame, and succeed.

Trading for him will only set us back further.

The plan should be, cut the dead weight. Build through strategic trades, the draft, and UFA's who will round out the identity you need to win in this city.
 
kenjets36 said:
The question remains, has Evander Kane ever done anything in his NHL career noteworthy?

Have his teams ever made it to the playoffs? Ever accomplished anything?

Winnipeg nearly made it to the playoffs last year. Why couldn't Kane put them over the top? Star players have the ability to do that. Why didn't he?

Another question remains. For the most part, this board has complained and complained about Sather and his inability to construct a well balanced team with an identity. There have been complaints about Sather's insistence on using bandaids and holding on to the illusion that 1 or 2 trades will make his team a cup contender.

Now the second the possibility of another shiny toy comes up and everyone is arguing about how Kane is exactly what this team needs? Isn't this exactly what has gotten us in this mess already?

He's not. He has talent. Where is his leadership? Where is his ability to turn on another level and make sure his actions lead his team to the playoffs? Someone responded to one of my posts earlier (where I said he didn't care about his team not making it into the playoffs) with "clearly you didn't see his angry tirade about continuously missing the playoffs"? What's the difference between his angry twitter tirade and the Rangers closed door meeting? Nothing. It's all talk. His actions don't back up what he has to say.

I'm absolutely NOT in favor of adding another talented poster boy who has an inability to lead and put his money where his mouth is. I don't care how talented he is. This city will eat him up. We need a specific type of player and mentality to come into this city, with all these distractions, with all this fame, and succeed.

Trading for him will only set us back further.

The plan should be, cut the dead weight. Build through strategic trades, the draft, and UFA's who will round out the identity you need to win in this city.
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I fail to see how an insanely talented 22 year old will set this franchise back. Leadership or no leadership.

Just like people ***** that Hank can't win this team a Stanley cup, one guy can't get Winnipeg into the playoffs.

No one's arguing that he's a damn superstar, but he's what this team needs. He scores and works hard, something we're really scarce on. So does everybody have to be Jonathan Toews on this team? Give me a ****ing break.

Leadership is so ****ing overvalued with players its horrendous. You have NO proof Kane is a lockerroom cancer, no proof he can't lead. All of this post is baseless garbage.
 
Raspewtin said:
I fail to see how an insanely talented 22 year old will set this franchise back. Leadership or no leadership.

Just like people ***** that Hank can't win this team a Stanley cup, one guy can't get Winnipeg into the playoffs.

No one's arguing that he's a damn superstar, but he's what this team needs. He scores and works hard, something we're really scarce on. So does everybody have to be Jonathan Toews on this team? Give me a ****ing break.

Leadership is so ****ing overvalued with players its horrendous. You have NO proof Kane is a lockerroom cancer, no proof he can't lead. All of this post is baseless garbage.
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Jesus christ, who do we trade for him?
 
RangersHank said:
Jesus christ, who do we trade for him?
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I'm not even suggesting we try to trade for him, I just fail to see how unless we acquire 54 players that are jack of all trades and can lead everybody we will be mediocre. He essentially wants a whole team of Jonathan Toews'.
 
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