JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
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People who actually watch Hartford play would disagree with you pretty heavily on that one.
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People who actually watch Hartford play would disagree with you pretty heavily on that one.
Clown Fiesta
Registered User
Tackla
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2013
- 413
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I personally tend to think Callahan gets under-rated here. Not singling you out, but in general I think he is a much better player than most think he is. I notice a bit that folks here tend to compare players to elite players, and will say such and such isn't a first liner or second liner, but will compare said player to very elite players who don't represent actual production or skillsets of what the average first or second line player actually looks like. But Callahan is, in my observation at least, a lot stronger player than he seems to credit for.
Consider his offensive production the past three seasons, apples to apples, which is against other RWs. Points per game for the combined seasons of 2010-11 to 2012-13:
St. Louis 1.13, Giroux 1.05, Kane .96, Perry .94, Hossa .89, Iginla .89, Selanne .85, Gaborik .79, Pominville .79, Ryan .75, Callahan .73
He is 11th in PPG the last 3 combined seasons and among petty solid company. In goals per game among RWs, he is tied for 4th over the past 3 combined seasons:
Perry .50, Iginla .43, Gaborik .39, Hossa .38, Callahan .38
And over 71.4% of his points are coming ES, so he does score 5 on 5. But he brings so much more to the game than points and scoring: defense, PK, energy, hitting. I'm not going to get into a debate of who is better between Callahan and Zuke, it's senseless to me as Callahan has done it over multiple full seasons and MZA hasn't done that yet. But in addition to being the far more proven entity in full NHL seasons, Callahan's overall game and solid offensive output among RWs are a lot better than I think he gets credit for.
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
I regularly attended weekend Hartford games as much as possible when I was living in NY. I continue to watch them. Dylan may have elevated his positional play but boy, if you guys are ready to hand him regular minutes get ready for him to get burned by speed. His foot speed is non existant and he will get caught flat footed quite a bit.
Clown Fiesta
Registered User
Kakko
Formerly Chytil
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
hey, aparrently you love making up stories?
If they give Dylan a callup and he holds his own I"ll be the first to proudly have crow.
No. Rangers need a goal scorer. Purcell gets points but not because he is a sniper that nets 25-30.
Plus i don't want to see DZ in the East if we trade him.
What type of forward do you think we'll be getting for a healthy scratched defenseman? DZs value is probably at its lowest right now. The Rangers would be lucky to get a Purcell type player. He's young and very underrated in the shadow of MSL and Stamkos. He's put up 51, 65 and 38 (48 GP) points respectively the last 3 seasons and is money on the PP. Would I prefer a Vrbata type finisher? Obviously. But there's not many guys out there that DZ could realistically get us without us adding a lot
The market is extremely tough, but we would get a very good forward. MSG don't determine a players value. MDZ is a very good D and I bet you that there are a bunch of teams, GMs, scouts out there who are big fans of him.
MDZ is more or less Stepan on defense, but he got two guys infront of him which is not good for a D. That's like playing inbetween the 4th line and the 3rd line as a forward.
Look we are not getting full value here like when Pitt moved Jordan Staal. Maybe we should have dealt MDZ this off-season when people still had him playing in a top 4 role due to Staal and McDs injuries fresh in their memories. But we would definitely get good value for MDZ.
I've actually liked what I've seen out of Falk so far, and McIlrath has looked impressive to say the least in Hartford. He looks just about ready to take the leap and play bottom pairing minutes. I think he'd fit will alongside Moore too.
Blue Blooded
Most people rejected his message
Giroux hasn't played RW in years, but I agree that Callahan produces enough points to play in the top 6 of most teams.
He is 149th among forwards in 5v5 P/60 over these three seasons 2010-2013, which makes him an average to below average 2nd liner with regard to points. But so is Backes, M. Richards, R. Kesler, D. Brown, so it isn't like he is without good company in that echelon. He is actually better than Zuccarello in this regard, but the points aren't what I consider to be the problem. The problem is that he isn't at all good at driving play.
Callahan's overall possession numbers are pretty mediocre, but they go into the bad category when you remove the minutes he spent with the Rangers' top possession driver Carl Hagelin, at least when you compare them to the overall possession of the team:
2011-12
Callahan: 46.3%
Callahan with Hagelin: 52.1%
Callahan without Hagelin: 44.6%
Hagelin without Callahan: 52.5%
NYR: 47.7%
2012-13
Callahan: 51.6%
Callahan with Hagelin: 56.0%
Callahan without Hagelin: 49.6%
Hagelin without Callahan: 56.0%
NYR: 52.0%
2013-14
Callahan: 49.6%
Callahan with Hagelin: 53.8%
Callahan without Hagelin: 47.4%
Hagelin without Callahan: 61.3%
NYR: 51.3%
Zuccarello, like Hagelin, has been one of the best possession drivers in the league (albeit in a small sample) which makes them very valuable as top 6 forwards 5v5. They are the ones keeping that offensive momentum going.
So while Callahan isn't a bad top 6 option, at least as long as he gets to play with Hagelin, he shouldn't be there over Nash and Zuccarello 5v5.
I you really want to keep him up there the best option would be to shift Zucc to LW and bump Kreider down, but I don't think anyone wants that either.
Craig Custance of ESPN reported in June that DZ was one of the players available at the draft. Maybe they wanted to see how Staal recovered from the eye injury. Maybe give DZ a fresh start under a new coach before trading him. AV was asked about DZ's play and he didn't answer the question. AV said DZ is working hard to get better. New coach. Contract. Many factors. AV did say he was evaluating the personnel and having discussions with management about different options.
Kakko
Formerly Chytil
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
If Slats can get either Yak or Zib for Del Zotto, I don't care if they have to throw Bickel back in on defense to replace him.
Edit: Thanks RangerBoy for the constant flow of information.
Edit: Thanks RangerBoy for the constant flow of information.
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McDonagh has replaced DZ on the first unit PP. Staal could replace DZ on the second unit. DZ isn't used on the PK. The Rangers put Staal on the PP in practice yesterday in place of DZ. He is a third pair on this team. The only reason to keep him around is as insurance in case one of the other D gets hurt. Even then Moore would get that opportunity. Time to cash in on the asset. Get good value in return. DZ will be a group II this summer. Arb eligible. Two years away from group III. *From: @AGrossRecord
Sent: Nov 15, 2013 11:28a
PP work right now, Del Zotto working with penalty killers, Staal taking his spot on the point. So signs point to DZ being a scratch tomorrow
sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/status/401386118177779712
Sent: Nov 15, 2013 11:28a
PP work right now, Del Zotto working with penalty killers, Staal taking his spot on the point. So signs point to DZ being a scratch tomorrow
sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/status/401386118177779712
I think one of girardi or Stralman will be gone due to the cap so mcilrath will get a serious look next yr but only this yr w injury
Jabroni
The People's Champ
- Jun 1, 2008
- 7,526
- 174
...Or unless DZ gets traded. I think he'll get his cup sometime starting in December, as RB mentioned.
eco's bones
Registered User
DZ is going at a 20 point pace. McDonagh is going at a 50 point pace. Not sure if McDonagh's shot is all that much better than DZ but he's more capable of finding seams in opposition defenses. He does everything with much more authority and his skating is superior to DZ's in just about every way. DZ is making $2.55 mil per--he has an RFA contract coming up and we can automatically add 10% to his present salary in order to qualify him--roughly $2.8 mil. Have to think that DZ and his agent are going to be thinking in terms of $3.5--$4mil per. That would not be a good deal for the Rangers. Term length is another problem. DZ is not likely to commit to anything over 2 years at $3 mil per and maybe not more than 1 year. I think his camp would be pretty much like 4 years for $4 mil per or 5 years for $4.5 mil per.
DZ is not Brian Leetch--not even close and he's far away from Sergei Zubov as well. Those comparisons are ridiculous. I suggested last year that his game had plateaued and a lot of people didn't like it--how can you say that about a 22 year old? He is not good enough to hold a top 4 spot just on his defensive play. McDonagh, Girardi, Staal and Stralman can. His advantage over the rest of the d-corps was always going to be putting up numbers. Since his rookie season those numbers have not really improved. 37 points in his rookie season to 41 points three years later is not much of a jump. Since then his contribution has been marginalized.
I don't like that AV has him on the right side. I think that has effected his subpar offensive stats this season in a negative way. I also think he's quite a bit better defensively on the left side. He is the smallest, the weakest--maybe the most panic prone of our defensive corps. This contract coming up with him could turn bitter because quite honestly I think $3 mil per would be the absolute limit I think the Rangers could give him. IMO if he has arbitration rights it's going to arbitration and if his team wins that there's at least a decent possibility that the Rangers would walk.
I think the Rangers could get good value for him--a young forward about his age with top two line ability--maybe even more. Trades are problematic these days because of cap issues--there is that to contend with. I also think that there are situations where Del Zotto could thrive in better than with us. I think all in all he's a pretty good player.
DZ is not Brian Leetch--not even close and he's far away from Sergei Zubov as well. Those comparisons are ridiculous. I suggested last year that his game had plateaued and a lot of people didn't like it--how can you say that about a 22 year old? He is not good enough to hold a top 4 spot just on his defensive play. McDonagh, Girardi, Staal and Stralman can. His advantage over the rest of the d-corps was always going to be putting up numbers. Since his rookie season those numbers have not really improved. 37 points in his rookie season to 41 points three years later is not much of a jump. Since then his contribution has been marginalized.
I don't like that AV has him on the right side. I think that has effected his subpar offensive stats this season in a negative way. I also think he's quite a bit better defensively on the left side. He is the smallest, the weakest--maybe the most panic prone of our defensive corps. This contract coming up with him could turn bitter because quite honestly I think $3 mil per would be the absolute limit I think the Rangers could give him. IMO if he has arbitration rights it's going to arbitration and if his team wins that there's at least a decent possibility that the Rangers would walk.
I think the Rangers could get good value for him--a young forward about his age with top two line ability--maybe even more. Trades are problematic these days because of cap issues--there is that to contend with. I also think that there are situations where Del Zotto could thrive in better than with us. I think all in all he's a pretty good player.
eco's bones
Registered User
So you keep DZ on the right side and bring up McIlrath (a rookie who is sure to have issues) to fill out the other right D slot? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
eco's bones
Registered User
In any case if the Rangers could work a deal around Zibanejad or Kane I'd be more than happy. We'd probably have to give more.
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