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Trade Rumors 2013 Part II

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Ziggy Stardust said:
From TFP:
https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/status/315170254387019776
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'Fairly active' would imply multiple moves. Unless they are talking dealing Bernier for who knows what, then getting a backup to replace Bernier, then doing another deal for a depth forward/D-man, it doesn't make much sense for us to be doing a bunch of moves.

All I want right now is a deal for Jagr (if Dallas falls out of the race) or something like the Bill Guerin deal between Pittsburgh and NYI.
 
Shellz said:
I don't see it. Besides.. TFP is as reliable as my cat and I mean no disrespect to my feline.
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:laugh:

That is true. They're hit or miss with a lot of rumors. I only recollect one specific Kings rumor that they had knowledge of well before the trade was executed, and that was the trade with the Islanders back in 2006 that sent Denis Grebeshkov and Jeff Tambellini to Long Island for Mark Parrish and Brent Sopel. Other than that, haven't really seen too many rumors from them on potential Kings moves. Maybe their old Kings source is no longer employed by the team?
 
Tonellisghost said:
I can expect WM to come back but I can see why other people wouldn't.

A young D in his prime that could be a long term solution as a replacement for WM or RS? Sure, as long as it was the right young guy and the right big defender in his prime but that was what I said in my post too.

I wouldn't deal any of our top prospects to get Iggy or Jagr no matter how much I would like to see either of them wearing the crown.
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who in your opinion would be this young d in your prime im curious?As usual I agree with keeping our top prospects as well
 
kingsfan said:
'Fairly active' would imply multiple moves. Unless they are talking dealing Bernier for who knows what, then getting a backup to replace Bernier, then doing another deal for a depth forward/D-man, it doesn't make much sense for us to be doing a bunch of moves.

All I want right now is a deal for Jagr (if Dallas falls out of the race) or something like the Bill Guerin deal between Pittsburgh and NYI.
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Agreed, don't know what they mean by fairly active, but making two to three moves to add a defenseman, a forward, and possibly a goalie (if Bernier is moved) may constitute that.

Like you suggested, a Guerin type move where the Kings add a veteran top six forward who could complete the forward lines would make a ton of sense. The Kings have auditioned a number of forwards on the 2nd line and would be nice knowing they have a consistent performer there. It's like what the Bruins got when they added Mark Recchi (who also happened to be 40 when he was dealt from Tampa Bay to Boston).

I could see them adding a veteran dman to replace Ellerby in the current rotation, and if they get Mitchell and/or Greene back, they can make a decision on which dman to sit based on performance as at times it seems that Martinez could use a break.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
:laugh:

That is true. They're hit or miss with a lot of rumors. I only recollect one specific Kings rumor that they had knowledge of well before the trade was executed, and that was the trade with the Islanders back in 2006 that sent Denis Grebeshkov and Jeff Tambellini to Long Island for Mark Parrish and Brent Sopel. Other than that, haven't really seen too many rumors from them on potential Kings moves. Maybe their old Kings source is no longer employed by the team?
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Who knows. I feel like that guy gives himself way too much credit though. But, Kings fans seem to love him. So, I think that's why he's been sticking around for so long.

I will give him credit when it's due, but I have yet to see anything worth believing.

damacles1156 said:
I just want Lombardi to add another Big Minute eating Defender.

I would be happy with that.
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Yes. That's all I'm looking for come trade deadline. I'm sure Dean is working his hardest to find it too.
 
RonSwanson said:
You're a little late to the discussion, but Toffoli won't be playing in the playoffs barring injuries, and therefore I would prefer the player that helps us win again this year.
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That reeks of desperation to me. We are not at the point where our window is closing, we will need talented prospects on ELC's to help fill out our roster for playoff runs over the next five years. I'm not one of those who thinks Toffoli is untradeable, I just think he's untradeable for a 35 year old UFA who we would have serious cap problems trying to re-sign. A player like Toffoli should only be moved in a package for a player in his late 20's at the oldest who will be a important piece to the franchise for many years to come, not a rental.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Then what happens if they don't win the Cup? No Toffoli and no Iginla and an asset lost. It's recycling the same mistake they made when they dealt Grebeshkov and Tambellini for Parrish and Sopel.

The problem wasn't just trading youth for prospects, but trading them for a player who will be rented for a few months makes absolutely no sense unless it assures you a Stanley Cup, and Iginla is not that player. He's not the same player he used to be.

A more sensible move involving the trading of prospects and future assets was like the one the Ducks made to acquire Chris Pronger (trading Lupul, Smid and two 1sts) or something along the lines of the Mike Richards trade. You're adding a pivotal player who will be around for more than just a season with a move like that.

If the Kings are going for a rental, why give up Toffoli? They'll be kicking themselves if they don't win a Cup and Toffoli turns into a 30 goal scorer that the Kings will be looking for after their rental player (and Penner) depart, leaving a hole in their top six. It just creates more problems if you apply logic and think things through.
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Grebeshkov and Tembellini busted. I'm not crying over that one.
 
Shellz said:
I don't see it. Besides.. TFP is as reliable as my cat and I mean no disrespect to my feline.
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What kind of cat? Tabby , Calico?

I don't trust Cornish Rexes. Not cat should look like Corduroy

braviout.cornish.rex.cat.jpg
 
RonSwanson said:
Grebeshkov and Tembellini busted. I'm not crying over that one.
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That, IMO, is irrelevant. At the time of the trade, those two had decent value and were given away for a UFA to be in Parrish and a depth guy in Sopel. We could have recieved more for them if we had dealt them for something else, such as picks/prospects.

Additionally, even if they busted, they would have provided more to us if we had kept then than what we got for them in that trade. Parrish and Sopel played a combined 74 games for the Kings, while Tambellini and Grebeshkov played a combined 453 games after the trade. Grebeshkov even had a really good year in 2008-2009 and netted a 2nd round pick the following year in a trade.

Point is, even 'busts' can in the long-run give you a lot more than the rental guys you get at the trade deadline. That will likely go double/triple for deals involving the likes of Iginla, as we'd have to give up even more assets/players to get him.
 
kingsfan said:
That, IMO, is irrelevant. At the time of the trade, those two had decent value and were given away for a UFA to be in Parrish and a depth guy in Sopel. We could have recieved more for them if we had dealt them for something else, such as picks/prospects.

Additionally, even if they busted, they would have provided more to us if we had kept then than what we got for them in that trade. Parrish and Sopel played a combined 74 games for the Kings, while Tambellini and Grebeshkov played a combined 453 games after the trade. Grebeshkov even had a really good year in 2008-2009 and netted a 2nd round pick the following year in a trade.

Point is, even 'busts' can in the long-run give you a lot more than the rental guys you get at the trade deadline. That will likely go double/triple for deals involving the likes of Iginla, as we'd have to give up even more assets/players to get him.
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I wasn't very high on either of those players when they were dealt, and I suspect not many GMs around the league were either. Classic case of players being overvalued by their fanbase.
 
RonSwanson said:
I wasn't very high on either of those players when they were dealt, and I suspect not many GMs around the league were either. Classic case of players being overvalued by their fanbase.
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How did I over value them? I didn't even put a value on them. I simply said we could have dealt them for draft pick/prospects or kept them, both of which would have given us a better return than what Sopel or Parrish did.
 
Some links referencing to the past two trade deadlines. I'll highlight some of the moves that may indicate the type of transactions we could/should expect to see in a couple of weeks.

2012 NHL Trade Deadline:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=70000

-Greg Zanon from MIN to BOS for Steve Kampfer
-Brian Rolston & Mike Mottau from NYI to BOS for Yannick Riendeau & Marc Cantin
-Sami Pahlsson from CBJ to VAN for two 4th round picks
-Johnny Oduya from WPG to CHI for 2nd & 3rd round picks
-Mike Commodore from TBL to DET for a conditional 7th round pick
-Andrei Kostitsyn from MTL to NSH for a 2nd round pick & conditional 5th round pick
-Ben Bishop from STL to OTW for a 2nd round pick
-Antoine Vermette from CBJ to PHX for Curtis McElhinney, a 2nd round pick & 5th round pick
-Wojtek Wolski from NYR to FLA for Michael Vernace & a 3rd round pick
-Pavel Kubina from TBL to PHI for Jon Kalinski, a conditional 2nd round pick & 4th round pick
-Hal Gill & a 5th round pick from MTL to NSH for Blake Geoffrion, Robert Slaney, and a 2nd round pick
-Nicklas Grossman from DAL to PHI for 2nd & 3rd round picks


2011 NHL Trade Deadline:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=67765

-Anton Khudobin from MIN to BOS for Jeff Penner & Mikko Lehtonen
-Brad Winchester from STL to ANA for a 3rd round pick
-Chris Higgins from FLA to VAN for Evan Oberg and a 3rd round pick
-Chris Campoli and a 7th round pick from OTW to CHI for Ryan Potulny and a 2nd round pick
-Dennis Wideman from FLA to WSH for Jake Hauswirth and a 3rd round pick
-Brad Boyes from STL to BUF for a 2nd round pick
-Bryan McCabe from FLA to NYR for Tim Kennedy and a 3rd round pick
-Cory Stillman from FLA to CAR for Ryan Carter and a 5th round pick
-Alex Kovalev from OTW to PIT for a conditional draft pick
-Eric Brewer from STL to TBL for Brock Beukeboom and a 3rd round pick
-Ian White from CAR to SJS for a 2nd round pick
-Jarkko Ruutu from OTW to ANA for a 6th round pick
-Tomas Kaberle from TOR to BOS for Joe Colborne, a 1st round pick & conditional 2nd round pick
-Paul Mara from ANA to MTL for a 5th round pick
-Chris Kelly from OTW to BOS for a 2nd round pick
-Kris Versteeg from TOR to PHI for a 1st & 3rd round picks
-Mike Fisher from OTW to NSH for a 1st & conditional draft pick
-Al Montoya from PHX to NYI for a 6th round pick
 
kingsfan said:
How did I over value them? I didn't even put a value on them. I simply said we could have dealt them for draft pick/prospects or kept them, both of which would have given us a better return than what Sopel or Parrish did.
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I didn't say you overvalued them.

I think a lot of fans at the time expected to get more for those two in a trade, and were disappointed when they only got Sopel and Parrish.
 
Grebeshkov/Tambellini for Parrish/Sopel was a different ball of wax. That Kings team was tumbling down the mountain at the time, and Taylor was trying to save his job. Lombardi may have been trying to save his job last year, but where the Kings are now, and where they were at the deadline in 06, are two different worlds.

I remember not being totally for getting Palffy when they did. I felt the Kings as an organization weren't ready for a deal like that. Apparently the league may have stepped in and made the Kings add to the deal, because I think there were names like Barney and Rosa, or something like that, at first. That deal would've been great. Jokinen has gone on to have at least a semi-successful career, and he was the piece I didn't like seeing dealt with where the Kings were at in the summer of 99.

I'm not saying trade Toffoli or Bernier for Iginla, or any rental. The Kings are at that point though, where it's now just about more Cups. If it takes a little extra to get a deal for someone, you at least have to think about it.

I'm not sure if you can consciously look at a Detroit or New Jersey and say you're going to be like that. 10, 15 years of sustained success, with a number of Cups sprinkled in there. Of course you want the Kings to be able to match that. In the abstract, it's a good goal to have. That doesn't happen all the time though. Neither does winning a Cup.

If the Kings can increase their chance of winning another Cup this season, I don't think you can flat out say no to any deal. It doesn't mean you have to pull the trigger though.
 
KingsFan7824 said:
I'm not saying trade Toffoli or Bernier for Iginla, or any rental. The Kings are at that point though, where it's now just about more Cups. If it takes a little extra to get a deal for someone, you at least have to think about it.

I'm not sure if you can consciously look at a Detroit or New Jersey and say you're going to be like that. 10, 15 years of sustained success, with a number of Cups sprinkled in there. Of course you want the Kings to be able to match that. In the abstract, it's a good goal to have. That doesn't happen all the time though. Neither does winning a Cup.

If the Kings can increase their chance of winning another Cup this season, I don't think you can flat out say no to any deal. It doesn't mean you have to pull the trigger though.
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Well said.
 
RonSwanson said:
I didn't say you overvalued them.

I think a lot of fans at the time expected to get more for those two in a trade, and were disappointed when they only got Sopel and Parrish.
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I was one of them.

And with the benefits of hindsight, even though neither really became the player we had hoped they would, I'm still disappointed in the deal.
 
Someone from the trade board had mentioned, Bernier for Iginla and a conditional 3rd (whether Iginla re-signs with us or not) and I thought that made a lot of sense.
 
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