Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread XIII

[NernieBichols]

dude how many deals in how many sports are made thinking, well if we need to trade at some point we will. Your gonna say, going into to it, if you think you might trade a guy eventually, don't sign him. This is a waste of time and my energy. Ive given enough of my energy to this today.

To other posters, I would love to have your opinions and what not. RangerBoy My initial post was kind of directed towards you and hoping for a response. I hope you will.

Have a good day boys

 

[offdacrossbar]

you make him a fair offer and let him decide.

if he declines, he is shopped for the best return.

if he isnt moved, he walks for nothing.

you DO NOT over pay for THIS ryan callahan. period.

 

[Tawnos]

I agree with you. But don't you think that if he was willing to take a bit of a discount, ala Steen, he would have been signed?

I think that's too far in speculation. We have no earthly idea what's going on in negotiations, despite what's been reported as rumor and what agents have said. Datsyuk's vaunted "hometown discount" that he took in 2007 didn't happen until April when his contract was going to be up in July. Zetterberg's was at the end of January.

Every negotiation is different.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I agree with you. But don't you think that if he was willing to take a bit of a discount, ala Steen, he would have been signed?

I agree if there was a discount available a deal would be done already. I don't think he is willing to take any sort of discount (even a small one). I think he is looking to get paid as big as possible. I just hope slats does NOT open the checkbook for him.

 

[Thirty One]

no they were not.

which really only strengthens the poitn he is trying to make.

Taking those two player our of the equation the decline for physical players beyond their 30th bday is more severe with the exception of Peca.

Both Parrish and Drury played in a manner that caused their bodies to take more of a beating than the average player.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think that's too far in speculation. We have no earthly idea what's going on in negotiations, despite what's been reported as rumor and what agents have said. Datsyuk's vaunted "hometown discount" that he took in 2007 didn't happen until April when his contract was going to be up in July. Zetterberg's was at the end of January.

Every negotiation is different.

You keep saying that, and while I generally agree, it still doesnt change the fact that the Rangers are in an awfully bad position if this thing drags out til July.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

After reading this continuing thread, it hasn't changed my mind at all that Cally and Dan G should be moved.

When people start throwing around "intangibles" for a guy to get seriously overpaid, that is a serious red flag.

 

[Tawnos]

You keep saying that, and while I generally agree, it still doesnt change the fact that the Rangers are in an awfully bad position if this thing drags out til July.

Meh. I'm less convinced than most of how dire it is to lose a player for nothing.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Meh. I'm less convinced than most of how dire it is to lose a player for nothing.

Truth be told I think it matters on the player.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Meh. I'm less convinced than most of how dire it is to lose a player for nothing.

Well its not dire. The team isn't going to fall to the bottom of the league if it happens.

It is stupid, and really bad asset management.

 

[Trxjw]

Callahan is the type of FA that a contender will make a reasonable offer to to be a "final piece" for 3, maybe 4 cup runs before he becomes an anchor of a contract and the team rebuilds or retools. Alternatively, he could cash in big on a team like Edmonton who is desperate for grit and leadership.

He's not the type of guy who should get a $6M per year deal on a team like the Rangers. We're a middle of the pack team who is likely going to buy out our leading scorer at the end of the year. This isn't a cup contender, and we sure as hell can't afford to throw that kind of money at intangibles.

Girardi I could understand, but I think Cally's time here has run it's course.

 

[Tawnos]

Well its not dire. The team isn't going to fall to the bottom of the league if it happens.

It is stupid, and really bad asset management.

Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the return. I'm not of the opinion that "getting something is better than getting nothing." In other words, if we make a deal for futures and the players we get don't pan out... I consider that to be the same level of asset management as losing the guy to free agency.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the return. I'm not of the opinion that "getting something is better than getting nothing." In other words, if we make a deal for futures and the players we get don't pan out... I consider that to be the same level of asset management as losing the guy to free agency.

I dont. At least you tried to recoup a return.

 

[NYR Viper]

Maybe, maybe not. That depends on the return. I'm not of the opinion that "getting something is better than getting nothing." In other words, if we make a deal for futures and the players we get don't pan out... I consider that to be the same level of asset management as losing the guy to free agency.

True but at least you give yourself a chance to recoup some assets, or, to use those assets to return someone else in the near future who can be part of this team for a longer period of time.

 

[eco's bones]

That only reinforces the point though, no? Callahan's body will break down sooner than Drury's because of his playing style being harder to continue into a later age.



I agree with that point, but he got 7 million. How can anyone say Girardi deserves 5.5 when Phaneuf just got 7? He deserves more than 5.5.

Girardi's blocked 1070 shots over the course of 542 games and is showing no signs of being injury prone. He's missed something like 8 games to injury in his entire career. Those 1070 shots blow away Drury's post lockout numbers of 426 in 422 games or Callahan's 409 in 442 games. Girardi doesn't look like he's going to be breaking down anytime soon. Girardi and Callahan hit way more than Drury ever did--Callahan has 1478 hits in his 442 games--Girardi 1236 in his 542 and Drury 202 in his 422 games. Callahan is a lot more physical player than Drury ever was.

 

[Tawnos]

I dont. At least you tried to recoup a return.

At the expense of wins. You can mock the idea of making sure you're as competitive as possible in the playoffs by calling it a "see what happens" mentality, but there's really nothing wrong with it. Granted that we are not the 2009 Penguins, but I always point to Rob Scuderi as an example. Do the Penguins regret losing him for nothing? No, they don't. Better example. Do the Coyotes regret losing Ray Whitney to free agency in 2012 after making it to the WCF? They really don't. It isn't bad asset management to keep your team as competitive as possible in the season you're in.

That being said, they need to make a tough decision here. Without Callahan signed by the deadline, personally I would move him. There aren't many GMs who would in the middle of the playoff race, though.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

At the expense of wins. You can mock the idea of making sure you're as competitive as possible in the playoffs by calling it a "see what happens" mentality, but there's really nothing wrong with it. Granted that we are not the 2009 Penguins, but I always point to Rob Scuderi as an example. Do the Penguins regret losing him for nothing? No, they don't. Better example. Do the Coyotes regret losing Ray Whitney to free agency in 2012 after making it to the WCF? They really don't. It isn't bad asset management to keep your team as competitive as possible in the season you're in.

That being said, they need to make a tough decision here. Without Callahan signed by the deadline, personally I would move him. There aren't many GMs who would in the middle of the playoff race, though.

Id be more inclined to agree with you if I thought that management had built something to get to this point, and that Callahan and Girardi were the only 2 question marks going forward. It hasn't and they are not. Over half the team are free agents this summer.

Theres no clear path forward here, and I dont think the team is in position to start saying "OK, lets take a shot, then let the chips fall where they may with Girardi and Callahan."

 

[One Winged Angel]

He isn't paid anywhere close to Suter and Weber.

Weber makes/made $14m in each of the first 4 years of his deal and $12m for the next two. $6m a bunch after that. Average of $12.28m over the first 7 years. Suter makes $12m in the first two years, $11m the next year, $9m for the next 5 years. $10.14m over the first 7 years. Phaneuf makes $8m in the first two years, progressively going down to $5.5m in the last year. It's a 7 year deal and averages $7m over that span. Taken at even, simple 7 year contracts, which would have been the max length for either player under today's CBA, he makes $3m less than Suter and $5m less than Weber.

As for why Phaneuf deserves $1m-1.5m more than Girardi? Despite his "regression" from his Calgary days (he's actually a better defensive player now, but whatever...), he still puts up ~38 points per 82 games played. Girardi puts up ~27. Phaneuf is a better offensive player. He's as good defensively (or nearly so, at least).

I'm talking average cap hit, not actual salary paid.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm talking average cap hit, not actual salary paid.

Yeah, except you're not making an even comparison. Suter and Weber's deals aren't comparable because they're back-diving contracts that were no longer allowed when Phaneuf signed his. When looking at comparables for players, team's look at actual salary for the comparable years, not the cap hit for an entire contract.

 

[Thirty One]

Girardi's blocked 1070 shots over the course of 542 games and is showing no signs of being injury prone. He's missed something like 8 games to injury in his entire career. Those 1070 shots blow away Drury's post lockout numbers of 426 in 422 games or Callahan's 409 in 442 games. Girardi doesn't look like he's going to be breaking down anytime soon. Girardi and Callahan hit way more than Drury ever did--Callahan has 1478 hits in his 442 games--Girardi 1236 in his 542 and Drury 202 in his 422 games. Callahan is a lot more physical player than Drury ever was.

Girardi is 29.... lets see what he looks like at ages 31-35.

Comparing Callahan's hit totals to Drury's is misleading. The Rangers track hits a lot differently than Buffalo (notice how Drury's Hits/GP increased 75% once signing with the Rangers?).

 

[pld459666]

Both Parrish and Drury played in a manner that caused their bodies to take more of a beating than the average player.

for the record, I don't consider that being physical.

I don't think that putting your self in position to get hit by a puck or to receive a body check is being physical.

I would much rather have the guy doing the hitting than the guy willing to absorb the hits.

We've had countless players over the last 8+ years that blocked shots and took hits and we're a whole lot of mediocre.

Can't say I'm impressed with the majority of them.

However, to your point, you are correct.

guys like Cally tend to break down and break down pretty quickly post 30th bday

 

[Fitzy]

Girardi is 29.... lets see what he looks like at ages 31-35.

Comparing Callahan's hit totals to Drury's is misleading. The Rangers track hits a lot differently than Buffalo (notice how Drury's Hits/GP increased 75% once signing with the Rangers?).

As long as he keeps drinking milk he shouldn't see Osteoporosis until his 60's. Pronger was playing quite happily at 36 and had a very rough and tumble style. There are a lot of reasons to not toss big money at Danny G, but I'm not worried about his contract length.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I think we are in such a unique and critical junction as Rangers fans, and given our history those who are willing to trade one or both of Cally and Girardi understand the history of Glen Sather's tenure here and the ramifications of what will be if we do indeed lose either or both of them for nothing.

A rare window of opportunity is presenting itself to the Rangers, one they seldom ever find themselves in. Well, there have been similar times but never one of this magnitude given the value of the trade assets. These are two players who are HIGHLY regarded around the league. Make no mistake about it, in the room and on the ice, their character is just as important as their play and going into the playoffs that is sought after big time.

Concerning their play, there is never a better time then now to sell high, very high on both of these players. Again, this is a critical junction for the Rangers and unless either or both of them sign to a hometown discount (there's nothing to suggest they will, why should they given the contracts their GM and owner has dolled out) then the Rangers and their fans will most certainly look back at this time as a missed opportunity.

I think if you you can resign one of them to a semi-good deal and can get away without it killing the cap then thats ok, only if you can get a nice return for the other. The chances are very low that both of them return under the right terms imo. You have to make a decision and get something back, provided they are healthy enough to be traded - which is the gorilla in the room especially considering Callahan.

Difficult decisions to make, no doubt, but you cannot let nostalgia overcome sound business and hockey decisions.

 

[Thirty One]

for the record, I don't consider that being physical.

OK. We have different definitions of a physical brand of hockey. My point is the exact same, however.

 

[Mikos87]

I think Cally should get the Clarkson deal with the same bonus structure. Front loaded with nice signing bonuses, and a bump in salary. I'd take Cally at 5.8.

5.8 our of an increasing cap isn't going to hurt. HRR will benefit from expansion and world cup, and the league has delivered on revenue growth. Those of you that pay for tickets certainly know that.

If Cally and G fit into next year's cap (and they most certainly will), then you lock those minutes up, because you are going to downgrade to replace them. (IE Lose)

The more protracted this process is and with other teams locking up their UFAs, the more expensive Cally and G will get.

There is a reason why winning teams like Chicago and Boston do these long term deals, and also re-sign guys with a year remaining.