Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread XIII
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Slick Rick 61
Registered User
- Jul 11, 2007
- 435
- 0
Agreed here. Your cap allocation becomes really inefficient once you start signing bottom 6 guys on the open market. Drafting/developing/using younger guys in that role, in addition to retaining your own before they hit UFA are crucial. I'd bring Moore back next year for 1.5MM on a 1 year deal without hesitation.
I like Greene as a bargain, but I don't see them being interested the way their right side is shaping up.
pld459666
Registered User
Those players should not be in their late 20's heading into their early 30's
Those players should be in their mid to early 20's but Sather is stead fast in refusing to commit to those players. There are exceptions to every rule with Staal and McD being two of them.
Should have signed Stepan to an 8 year deal, instead he forces that player to a bridge contract.
Should be working on a long term deal for Kreider and Hagelin as well.
We should not be signing older players to long term deals and then hoping they retain their usefulness 3-4 years down the line when that #1 cenetr we hope to acquire is primed for a run.
Probably could have gotten a little more out of MDZ had he had a contract that is similar in length to that of Klein.
MDZ with a hard number of 3.5 over the mext 4-5 seasons is worth alot more than him being a RFA after this year with a cap going up. The acquiring team would have saved a few million making his acquisition that much more expensive.
Sather is a relic in ability to read the current climate of the NHL.
Commit to the youth, compliment with Vets and when the time is right, strike for the big acquisition.
Sather is 71. I see him riding this roster out as long as he can to see if it has what it takes to be even just a little bit of a threat in the playoffs. I don't see him selling every piece off. I don't see him rushing to do anything either. Over the past month and a half, this team has looked like a top 2-3 team in the East. And I certainly think that's possible considering the team had finally started to adjust to an entirely different system than what they had been playing for the past 4 years. The transition game destroyed the Devils on Sunday. Their defense has been playing better and Henrik, the key cog, has been much better. Klein has provided much more balance, and I think in his 2nd game with the team, we may have saw the effect he can have on John Moore. Moore played with more freedom than I've seen all season in that outdoor game. The team has promise.
I'm not advocating this is a cup team. All I am saying is I don't expect Sather to make a major move before the olympic roster freeze.
There's only one player I think should be traded and I think it is Callahan. Callahan is more replaceable at this point than Girardi is. Girardi has been a stalwart on the top 2 pairs for the past several years. Yes Girardi makes his mistakes but he is still very reliable. He plays a strong game, is physical when he has to be, and never misses a game. Callahan, on the other hand, has shown spurts of offensive ability over his career but is not getting any younger and has been enduring more injuries the past few years. He is showing signs of that Chris Drury type of body. I love his heart, but how much do you pay for a 3rd liner with heart? You have to make tough decisions. Cash in now and deal Callahan to a contending team. The Rangers will still be able to make the playoffs without Callahan.
Trade Dorsett for a late round pick. Keep Boyle and Stralman. That's what I see sather doing.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
I am sorry but this is the type of tunnel vision and blind hatred for some players that makes that really makes this place tough to bare at times.
The odds the 1st turns out to be a player like Del Zotto is slim. Erixon is looking less and less like he will ever make it to the NHL. Still not out of the question for a guy who is only 22 but the odds are that Erixon does not ever produce like Del Zotto has.
Did Sather screw up and not trade him earlier? Sure. Hindsight is always 20-20. Klein fills a need incase Girardi wants too much money. Sather did a good job to get good value for Del Zotto despite his year.
This is my first post ever here. I have read the boards for close to 10 years though. And I've been a ranger fan for close to 25 years. My name is jonathan pettick-perez. If you google my name, you'll see a report I wrote on the 2011 Traverse City tournament on the ranger report blog. I'm giving this info to state clearly, I am a legitimate ranger fan and not a troll… Being Said
Ive been driven to posting bc this msg board and more specifically these trade threads have become such a brain dumbing experience to sort though. I think many of the posters here (especially the 2010 and newer poster) are trolls or paid msg board writers.
The talk of Callahan and Girardi and up until two weeks Staal is shameful. Im not saying the rangers should give the first two their "retirement contracts", so many here are willing to trade them for nothing. This website's infatuation with picks and prospects, I know origin of this is site is about hockey prospects, but so many of you come across like you know nothing. Its a joke and Im saying it. Now that Im signed up, the more it goes on from the usual suspects, I begin calling out your intentions and your knowledge.
I have read a lot of Rangerboys posts over time and respect it for the most part. So I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to respond if he would, without spinning, or deflecting, or ignoring my question. But recently, it seems you have a real agenda in the Rangers blowing up the roster. So I ask as the guy Son of steinbenner just did, but I ask politely.
What would you like to see done. What is your assessment of this team, its potential, and then also the blueprint of how you would go about restructuring the roster.
I'm of the thought process that you cannot allow Callahan, Girardi, or Stralman to simply walk. I call for the same old negotiating tactics to be thrown out the window, and to be real with each other. Is there a way to make a contract work to keep these players here. If there is sign them, if there is not let the two sides be honest and work to move the players to a team they will sign an extension with, allowing the rangers to get tangible assets. I do not believe in trading Callahan or Girardi just to take a chance on someone else's leftovers though. Some of what I've heard here is insulting, definitely let them walk over what some of you guys would be content with.
Cup contenders consider players such as callahan and girardi as missing ingredient type players. Now I hear everyone hear saying the Rangers aren't cup contenders and aren't gonna be for years. Two things, the god to honest truth is anything can happen, go look over the playoffs the last how many years, the best teams can get knocked off by lesser teams, it happens all the time. And secondly, how long do some of you believe it would take to contend for the cup again if we retooled. Another 2-3 seasons? And at that point, we'd be wishing we had guys like callahan or girardi in the mix. These guys aren't 31+. Girardi never misses time, it seems like its become trendy to say, he's definitely going to break down bc he plays a physical style. In the world of business, how risky is it to make such assumptions when the statistics state other wises. Callahan has a tendency to get injured, some of these injuries have been freak accidents or unfortunate things, he doesn't have reoccurring injuries, or a bad foot, or knee that just keeps breaking down. And also the guy always comes back faster then the expected time frame, he's a quick healer. I've heard some guys say that other then 2011-12 that Callahan has been a 3rd liner. I think the dude from italy with the pretty girls as his photo is the poster who said that. Either way. I could go on and on. Ive been reading for so long without commenting, I have a lot I could say.
But to rangerboy. Id love to hear your inner thoughts are what the rangers can do, should do, and a blueprint of it. You say sign or trade them, but I don't know where you stand on what you would do.
Ive been driven to posting bc this msg board and more specifically these trade threads have become such a brain dumbing experience to sort though. I think many of the posters here (especially the 2010 and newer poster) are trolls or paid msg board writers.
The talk of Callahan and Girardi and up until two weeks Staal is shameful. Im not saying the rangers should give the first two their "retirement contracts", so many here are willing to trade them for nothing. This website's infatuation with picks and prospects, I know origin of this is site is about hockey prospects, but so many of you come across like you know nothing. Its a joke and Im saying it. Now that Im signed up, the more it goes on from the usual suspects, I begin calling out your intentions and your knowledge.
I have read a lot of Rangerboys posts over time and respect it for the most part. So I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to respond if he would, without spinning, or deflecting, or ignoring my question. But recently, it seems you have a real agenda in the Rangers blowing up the roster. So I ask as the guy Son of steinbenner just did, but I ask politely.
What would you like to see done. What is your assessment of this team, its potential, and then also the blueprint of how you would go about restructuring the roster.
I'm of the thought process that you cannot allow Callahan, Girardi, or Stralman to simply walk. I call for the same old negotiating tactics to be thrown out the window, and to be real with each other. Is there a way to make a contract work to keep these players here. If there is sign them, if there is not let the two sides be honest and work to move the players to a team they will sign an extension with, allowing the rangers to get tangible assets. I do not believe in trading Callahan or Girardi just to take a chance on someone else's leftovers though. Some of what I've heard here is insulting, definitely let them walk over what some of you guys would be content with.
Cup contenders consider players such as callahan and girardi as missing ingredient type players. Now I hear everyone hear saying the Rangers aren't cup contenders and aren't gonna be for years. Two things, the god to honest truth is anything can happen, go look over the playoffs the last how many years, the best teams can get knocked off by lesser teams, it happens all the time. And secondly, how long do some of you believe it would take to contend for the cup again if we retooled. Another 2-3 seasons? And at that point, we'd be wishing we had guys like callahan or girardi in the mix. These guys aren't 31+. Girardi never misses time, it seems like its become trendy to say, he's definitely going to break down bc he plays a physical style. In the world of business, how risky is it to make such assumptions when the statistics state other wises. Callahan has a tendency to get injured, some of these injuries have been freak accidents or unfortunate things, he doesn't have reoccurring injuries, or a bad foot, or knee that just keeps breaking down. And also the guy always comes back faster then the expected time frame, he's a quick healer. I've heard some guys say that other then 2011-12 that Callahan has been a 3rd liner. I think the dude from italy with the pretty girls as his photo is the poster who said that. Either way. I could go on and on. Ive been reading for so long without commenting, I have a lot I could say.
But to rangerboy. Id love to hear your inner thoughts are what the rangers can do, should do, and a blueprint of it. You say sign or trade them, but I don't know where you stand on what you would do.
I think we misunderstood each other. I agree with the part that you said that you think he will ride it out with his current group of guys.
I don't think that means he won't make a splash though. I'm not limiting a big move to trading one of our big guys for something else. I think he'll get us something like Yakupov, or Mike Green, or Yandle.
pld459666
Registered User
yeah and I want a million dollars.
doesn't mean I am going to get it just like Sherman knew full well he wasn't going to get Stepan and the 1st.
He should be asking for the sun, moon and stars for his players. I'd be pissed as hell if Sather didn't do the same.
It's not what they want that matters. It's what they would settle for.
I have no doubt that pre 2012-13 season MDZ+ could have gotten RO'R
Sather spit the bit on that.
he addresses all the issues we have on LW
Size, speed, skill and a defensive awareness that would be tops on our team.
Another example of Sather missing the mark.
pld459666
Registered User
No, but I can see a 3 year contract for Boyle if the money is right. He doesn't have his offensive ability but he does all the other things you need to have a successful team depth wise.i can see the madness when Rangers resign Boyle to a 5 year contract and trade Callahan for prospects out of the ECHL
What do we have to offer though? Washington won't deal Green for a UFA rental. Neither will phoenix with Yandle or Edmonton with Yakupov. I think the rangers are only interested in a defenseman if they deal Stralman or Girardi. I just don't see those two being dealt. I see them being retained. Maybe they can make a splash for a forward, but again what do we have to offer? Skjei? Do we deal Skjei or McIlrath if we feel we are going to keep Staal and Girardi long term moving forward?
NYR Viper
Registered User
Isn't it difficult to state what the team should do without knowing exactly what the player is asking for?
If Girardi is asking for 5.5, give it to him. 6 years.
If Callahan is asking for 6.5, trade him.
When trading any player, you have to make sure you get the best possible return you can that fits your needs. Girardi should return a A prospect (preferrably a center) + 1st '14. Depending on who that center is, it could be a good deal. Maybe Detroit offers up Sheahan pr Jurco + 1st for Girardi. They have no RD's. Again, we don't know who i buying and who is selling.
Callahan would most likely be the highest value player available. There will be teams lining up to grab him now so that they can offer him that 8th year which will make it easier to re-sign him. Where does he fit? Get a couple of very good prospects back and a 1st.
I know many will say, "well the 1st rounders won't be ready for 2-3 years at the earliest!". That is partially accurate. How many players have come in at 19 or 20 and made an impact. The more picks you have, the easier it is to take some boom or bust picks. Take a bit more risk because you know you have multiple 1st rounders. Allow those players to develop and then you have a much deeper and better team moving forward.
Go back and look at the players who are a similar size and playing style to Callahan. Brendan Morrow and Chris Drury are the ones that stick out to me. Both had their bodies start to deteriorate at 34. Callahan is 28. He will ask for, and get, an 8 year contract from someone. That's 36. I don't see him aging gracefully.
Girardi is an absolute warrior. I love the guy. But go look at players who play good positional defense, hit and block a ton of shots. Philips, Volchenkov and McKee are the players who come to mind who were similar in playing style to Girardi. All are either losing it or lost it in their early 30's. A body just can't continue to heal the same way it did when it was younger. Girardi is 30. He will begin ti slow down at 33-34 most likely just due tot he mileage on his body. Sign him to a 7-8 year deal? That takes him to 37 or 38.
thanks for the welcome pld459666.
Everywhere you look in this world, you have to sort through crap to see some real-ness. there are some real fans here, you just read their posts and know who's who. And there are times, when Im reading the post and I will simply close the page, it can be toxic to your health reading some of this crap. Its just the old espn boards and what not. Completely overrun with trolls and people hired to generate fodder and banter on the threads. Same crap here.
Everywhere you look in this world, you have to sort through crap to see some real-ness. there are some real fans here, you just read their posts and know who's who. And there are times, when Im reading the post and I will simply close the page, it can be toxic to your health reading some of this crap. Its just the old espn boards and what not. Completely overrun with trolls and people hired to generate fodder and banter on the threads. Same crap here.
Whoa there. I don't have a hatred or tunnel vision with any one player.
That being said, I distinguish (for myself) which players I like and which players I don't. In the sense of a team building perspective... I'm not unlike GM's who construct their teams with a certain mold of players they prefer. The only difference is that I don't have any type of power to GM a team.
Del Zotto was a player I was on the fence for in his first year. He made great plays, but i'm not wowed by great plays. I think hockey is a mans sport that requires physicality, creativity, vision, and hard work. I never hated Del Zotto because he showed the last criteria I listed. I respect hard workers. It's why I respect Girardi and Callahan while so many on here would have them traded without blinking.
But I recognized that he had a lot of flaws and advocated that I wanted him gone as soon as possible to maximize his value. That's not called tunnel vision.
Have I been wrong on players before? Sure. But i'm not ignorant, i'm not biased to the point where i'll blindly hate on someone, and i'm pretty rational in my assessments and thought process.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Sure, but replacing Girardi is much harder than replacing Callahan. The Rangers will have the cap to bring one of the two. I choose Girardi.
Too much for Green. Who replaces Brassard. Would definitely suck to play against McIlrath on a consistent basis.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Don't you find it ironic that in the "bad old days" many, including a certain GM of Edmonton, accused the Rangers of fiscal irresponsibility and driving up contracts and now, with Sather and his bridge contracts that argue for fiscal responsibility, these contracts put the Rangers in a bad situation and are increasingly ignored?
Bridge contracts are a great idea in theory. I love Kreider but do we really want to lock him up for eight years and chance the possibility that he doesn't develop into the player we want him to be? With a bridge contract for players there is still some doubt about, you get two more years of development before you commit long term.
Has Stepan really earned a long term contract yet? Are we ready to pay him first line center money long term when he is not yet a fully developed player?
Hard to believe that Sather is the voice of reason being ignored by other GMs but sometimes that is the way it seems.
With todays NHL, bridge contacts seem to have run their course and I guess we'll have to join everyone else locking up a large number of players long term.
Doesn't mean, however, that the idea of bridge contracts are a bad idea, at least in theory.
Bridge contracts are a great idea in theory. I love Kreider but do we really want to lock him up for eight years and chance the possibility that he doesn't develop into the player we want him to be? With a bridge contract for players there is still some doubt about, you get two more years of development before you commit long term.
Has Stepan really earned a long term contract yet? Are we ready to pay him first line center money long term when he is not yet a fully developed player?
Hard to believe that Sather is the voice of reason being ignored by other GMs but sometimes that is the way it seems.
With todays NHL, bridge contacts seem to have run their course and I guess we'll have to join everyone else locking up a large number of players long term.
Doesn't mean, however, that the idea of bridge contracts are a bad idea, at least in theory.
Slick Rick 61
Registered User
- Jul 11, 2007
- 435
- 0
I agree. But the question is how do you replace him? Minute-eating, shot blocking defenseman don't grow on trees. Is he what he was 4 years ago? No. But at age 30, he's got a lot left, and some of the dumping on him is unwarranted. Klein solidified the #4/5 spot from the right side, but there is still plenty of uncertainty regarding the defense beyond this season. Especially on that side.
Colorado and the Rangers have apparently been scouting one another for weeks now. To me, that's about a Girardi deal. You're not doing advanced scouting on a team you play twice for weeks. The Avalanche have Andre Benoit and Cory Sarich in their top 4. EJ and Hejda the others. Something tells me the Rangers are after Tyson Barrie+ in such a trade.
I'm not advocating that we should do this. I can just see a similar type move being made.
We need a point shot on the power play, especially with Richards likely being bought out. We'll need a RHD if we lose one of Stralman or Girardi. Green is offensively minded, AV likes his defensemen to be offensively minded. Perfect fit.
Now for the package that we give up to get him - Wash is a conference rival, meaning they'll ask more of us to trade for him. Brassard is a luxury, he'll have a high qualifying offer that will be more than he is worth. Miller came up and played fine on the 3rd line his last time up, he's been averaging over a ppg in the AHL... he's ready. McIlrath doesn't seem to me to be in AV's agenda. He's slow, will take a few more years to correctly learn where to position himself, he's too physical for AV's liking too. We'll be playing with 5 defensemen often because he'll be off for fighting. Side note, I love McIlrath and think he's exactly what this team needs moving forward, but this is just my opinion of what the coach thinks of him. And then after that I think they'll ask for a 3rd or 4th in addition.
Type of move that Sather will make to try and put us over the top now and set us up if Girardi or Stralman leaves for the future. Those are the future moves he makes... not for prospects.
"Isn't it difficult to state what the team should do without knowing exactly what the player is asking for?
If Girardi is asking for 5.5, give it to him. 6 years.
If Callahan is asking for 6.5, trade him.
When trading any player, you have to make sure you get the best possible return you can that fits your needs. Girardi should return a A prospect (preferrably a center) + 1st '14. Depending on who that center is, it could be a good deal. Maybe Detroit offers up Sheahan pr Jurco + 1st for Girardi. They have no RD's. Again, we don't know who i buying and who is selling.
Callahan would most likely be the highest value player available. There will be teams lining up to grab him now so that they can offer him that 8th year which will make it easier to re-sign him. Where does he fit? Get a couple of very good prospects back and a 1st.
I know many will say, "well the 1st rounders won't be ready for 2-3 years at the earliest!". That is partially accurate. How many players have come in at 19 or 20 and made an impact. The more picks you have, the easier it is to take some boom or bust picks. Take a bit more risk because you know you have multiple 1st rounders. Allow those players to develop and then you have a much deeper and better team moving forward.
Go back and look at the players who are a similar size and playing style to Callahan. Brendan Morrow and Chris Drury are the ones that stick out to me. Both had their bodies start to deteriorate at 34. Callahan is 28. He will ask for, and get, an 8 year contract from someone. That's 36. I don't see him aging gracefully.
Girardi is an absolute warrior. I love the guy. But go look at players who play good positional defense, hit and block a ton of shots. Philips, Volchenkov and McKee are the players who come to mind who were similar in playing style to Girardi. All are either losing it or lost it in their early 30's. A body just can't continue to heal the same way it did when it was younger. Girardi is 30. He will begin ti slow down at 33-34 most likely just due tot he mileage on his body. Sign him to a 7-8 year deal? That takes him to 37 or 38"
Well its not too hard to state in a post you compose. IF so and so is asking for this, the rangers should do this… IF so and so is asking for that, the should do that.
Girardi and Callahan could land you a nice ransom and if that happens and it happens bc the rangers know those players won't be re-signing at reasonable terms, or bc they are totally blown away from an offer. Then make the deal. Thats the business.
But the other side of the coin is, these aren't the type of players you deal just to deal. If the value isn't there, you don't just get rid of them to peanuts.
On callahan, and where he fits. Look 5 million is high for a third line player. But your talking about the teams captain, your talking about a heart and soul player, a player who's advanced stats show that he plays against the league best players and he's still effective. He's a guy if their is an injury up front, you can slot him up. He's proven on the PP as net presence and he's awesome PK man. 5 million is a lot. But if the cap is going to keep going up and up. And I don't know if it will. But then that 5 mil doesn't look so bad I bet as things shake out.
And finally, what are the chances of any single prospect or pick the rangers receive in a trade for Girardi or Callahan (barring them being a blue-chip prospect or pick), becoming a better player then Callahan or girardi. like I just read recently somebody saying Miller is definitely going to be better then Callahan. WTF, like really…
Personally, i've stated other places I would give 7yr 42 million to girardi, and go as far as 6x6 for callahan. I had actually been thinking about an 8year 40mill for both players, but the length kept sticking out to me. But having read one of Ola's recent posts, I kinda like his reasoning on max deals being a smart tactic. Would like to hear what RangerBoy feels about what Ola was saying
If Girardi is asking for 5.5, give it to him. 6 years.
If Callahan is asking for 6.5, trade him.
When trading any player, you have to make sure you get the best possible return you can that fits your needs. Girardi should return a A prospect (preferrably a center) + 1st '14. Depending on who that center is, it could be a good deal. Maybe Detroit offers up Sheahan pr Jurco + 1st for Girardi. They have no RD's. Again, we don't know who i buying and who is selling.
Callahan would most likely be the highest value player available. There will be teams lining up to grab him now so that they can offer him that 8th year which will make it easier to re-sign him. Where does he fit? Get a couple of very good prospects back and a 1st.
I know many will say, "well the 1st rounders won't be ready for 2-3 years at the earliest!". That is partially accurate. How many players have come in at 19 or 20 and made an impact. The more picks you have, the easier it is to take some boom or bust picks. Take a bit more risk because you know you have multiple 1st rounders. Allow those players to develop and then you have a much deeper and better team moving forward.
Go back and look at the players who are a similar size and playing style to Callahan. Brendan Morrow and Chris Drury are the ones that stick out to me. Both had their bodies start to deteriorate at 34. Callahan is 28. He will ask for, and get, an 8 year contract from someone. That's 36. I don't see him aging gracefully.
Girardi is an absolute warrior. I love the guy. But go look at players who play good positional defense, hit and block a ton of shots. Philips, Volchenkov and McKee are the players who come to mind who were similar in playing style to Girardi. All are either losing it or lost it in their early 30's. A body just can't continue to heal the same way it did when it was younger. Girardi is 30. He will begin ti slow down at 33-34 most likely just due tot he mileage on his body. Sign him to a 7-8 year deal? That takes him to 37 or 38"
Well its not too hard to state in a post you compose. IF so and so is asking for this, the rangers should do this… IF so and so is asking for that, the should do that.
Girardi and Callahan could land you a nice ransom and if that happens and it happens bc the rangers know those players won't be re-signing at reasonable terms, or bc they are totally blown away from an offer. Then make the deal. Thats the business.
But the other side of the coin is, these aren't the type of players you deal just to deal. If the value isn't there, you don't just get rid of them to peanuts.
On callahan, and where he fits. Look 5 million is high for a third line player. But your talking about the teams captain, your talking about a heart and soul player, a player who's advanced stats show that he plays against the league best players and he's still effective. He's a guy if their is an injury up front, you can slot him up. He's proven on the PP as net presence and he's awesome PK man. 5 million is a lot. But if the cap is going to keep going up and up. And I don't know if it will. But then that 5 mil doesn't look so bad I bet as things shake out.
And finally, what are the chances of any single prospect or pick the rangers receive in a trade for Girardi or Callahan (barring them being a blue-chip prospect or pick), becoming a better player then Callahan or girardi. like I just read recently somebody saying Miller is definitely going to be better then Callahan. WTF, like really…
Personally, i've stated other places I would give 7yr 42 million to girardi, and go as far as 6x6 for callahan. I had actually been thinking about an 8year 40mill for both players, but the length kept sticking out to me. But having read one of Ola's recent posts, I kinda like his reasoning on max deals being a smart tactic. Would like to hear what RangerBoy feels about what Ola was saying
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