Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread XIII

[Fitzy]

While I disagree with Ola on the price we should be giving these guys, I agree that the longer terms the better in a rising cap environment.

That said, in many cases we think these things through more thoroughly and logically than the actual management, so it stands to reason that they shy away from term.

 

[gravy121]

Would you rather MAYBE getting two fifth round picks while we lose in the second round of the playoffs?

Or, knowing full well were not in a position to be buyers, sell off Girardi and Callahan, let some other team give in to their stupid contract demands, and recoup a ton of useful assets?

Unless every offer for Callahan/Girardi is totally underwhelming, one or both should be traded.

I agree that (ideally) one should be traded at the deadline, I woudl certainly rather that.... but I am considering what Sather will do -- i cant see him selling off if the playoffs are in view. He should, but i am thinking real world.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I'm not in love with the idea, but feel its worth considering:
Would it be so bad to keep C+G for the play-off run (they have value to this team, would be tough to replace, hurt locker room to have them leave), and then trade their negotiating rights in the off-season?

The standard for such deals seems to be a 4th rounder, but perhaps we could trade both rights for a 1st, like that NSH-PHI deal.

Sure, a 4th rounder isn't great, but keep in mind ---

"The Rangers were busy moving veterans around in the summer of 2003, having also traded Brian Leetch’s negotiating rights to the Edmonton Oilers for Jussi Markkanen and a 2004 fourth round draft choice. Leetch eventually re-signed in New York, while that fourth rounder would eventually become Ryan Callahan."

- http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/06/08/the-risk-of-trading-for-negotiating-rights/

I believe yes, it would be "so bad". It would be awful asset management as I don't believe this team has a prayer of hoisting the Cup this season. Could I see it happening? I could.

I am fine with signing 1 or both within reason. But letting them both walk after at best a series win would be the worst possible outcome.

 

[Raspewtin]

I believe yes, it would be "so bad". It would be awful asset management as I don't believe this team has a prayer of hoisting the Cup this season. Could I see it happening? I could.

I am fine with signing 1 or both within reason. But letting them both walk after at best a series win would be the worst possible outcome.

And the problem is, does anybody really believe they will sign with in reason? I don't buy it for a second.

I see them both getting 6 mill + easily. Supply and demand.

I frankly don't want to pay either of them 5 million.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

And the problem is, does anybody really believe they will sign with in reason? I don't buy it for a second.

I see them both getting 6 mill + easily. Supply and demand.

I frankly don't want to pay either of them 5 million.

Personally my high end for Girardi would be 6. Callahan in the 5s. But that really doesn't matter.

On the UFA market both will see a 6.5+ deal thrown their way I have no doubt of that. And I don't blame them one second for taking it. I certainly will blame management if they walk or are traded for 4th rounders.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

And the problem is, does anybody really believe they will sign with in reason? I don't buy it for a second.

I see them both getting 6 mill + easily. Supply and demand.

I frankly don't want to pay either of them 5 million.

Really? You wouldn't pay Girardi $5M? Callahan is easily worth $5M as well, I just don't want to give either of them the term they're more than likely looking for. Girardi on a long term contract would be much easier to swallow though.

 

[Raspewtin]

Personally my high end for Girardi would be 6. Callahan in the 5s. But that really doesn't matter.

On the UFA market both will see a 6.5+ deal thrown their way I have no doubt of that. And I don't blame them one second for taking it. I certainly will blame management if they walk or are traded for 4th rounders.

To quote what RB has said, the front office should have a crystal clear idea of what Girardi and Callahan want. It's not as if their asking price goes down as the year goes on. They'll have plenty of suitors on the open market willing to throw the bank at them, Sather has virtually no leverage.

If the deadline comes, and they still want the same deal that Sather clearly isn't comfortable giving them, they should be traded.

I vomit at the idea of giving Girardi 6 million, because he provides almost no offense, and can't function properly without Staal or McDonagh on his opposite side. You don't break the bank for strictly complimentary players. Girardi deserves 5 million, max, in my opinion.

Does Sather still believe this team is a contender? We don't know. If he does, an overpayment for Callahan + Girardi is almost imminent.

 

[Raspewtin]

Really? You wouldn't pay Girardi $5M? Callahan is easily worth $5M as well, I just don't want to give either of them the term they're more than likely looking for. Girardi on a long term contract would be much easier to swallow though.

5 million is the highest I'd go for Girardi. I don't believe paying a premium for strictly complimentary players is smart. If he could play competently without Staal or McDonagh, or he had some semblance of offense to his game, then I'd be willing to pay more.

If Callahan wasn't injured all the time, I'd probably do 5.5 for him. But no higher. He isn't nearly dynamic enough, and is not scoring enough to make any more money than that.

 

[Fitzy]

That's all nice and fine, but if we're drawing the line somewhere with these players and they leave, you have to have a preferable alternative lined up.

Sure, NYR could go into next season with 10 million in cap space, but it would surprise me greatly. And you have to consider that if both Callahan and Girardi leave, there is a better chance we will be on hook for the rest of Richards contract because Sather sees his hands as tied in terms of keeping talent on the roster.

 

[JimmyG89]

Would we rather have Sather with a lot of cap space or resign what we know for below market contracts? Who is ready for that tough guy he gives 2 million for that he wouldn't give to prust?

I think the contract situation is overblown. Tell Cally it is Brown's contract or free agency. Tell Girardi it is 5.5 per or free agency. Trade them at that point if they say no. Bring back assets and look to make a move at the Draft or offseason. Extra assets allow a trade who can have a larger contract. We know the Nash situation from a couple years ago, but who might fall into that situation this offseason?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

5 million is the highest I'd go for Girardi. I don't believe paying a premium for strictly complimentary players is smart. If he could play competently without Staal or McDonagh, or he had some semblance of offense to his game, then I'd be willing to pay more.

If Callahan wasn't injured all the time, I'd probably do 5.5 for him. But no higher. He isn't nearly dynamic enough, and is not scoring enough to make any more money than that.

Make no mistake about it, the Rangers put themselves in this position. For years, they have forced players higher and higher in the lineup to mask the failure to produce a blue-chip homegrown talent.

Now here we are -- in a situation where good, but not great, players are set to be overpaid.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'd like to think Sather isn't that much of a ****ing moron.

Unless Richards has a 130 point season, he's a buy out, period. There's no way around it.

Trading for Klein has made it so we can't be held hostage by Girardi in contract negotiations. There's your replacement. It makes us worse, of course, but who's to say we can't find a future replacement in a trade involving Girardi? I like Tyson Barrie + 1st from Colorado. We get a RHD that provides offense and thinks the game at a really high level. The replacement doesn't necessarily have to be a roster player that provides the same exact thing as Girardi or Callahan.

It's not hard to replace a 3RW anyway. Fast or Kristo should battle for that spot next training camp.

 

[Raspewtin]

Make no mistake about it, the Rangers put themselves in this position. For years, they have forced players higher and higher in the lineup to mask the failure to produce a blue-chip homegrown talent.

Now here we are -- in a situation where good, but not great, players are set to be overpaid.

And that is the be all end all of this situation.

We're probably going to tie up gamebreaker's money into two decent players. All so we can have the same team and the same problems for years to come. Yay.

I've never seen a GM so woefully inept at analyzing his own talent than Glen Sather.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The Penguins melt down against good defensive teams.

If McDonagh/Girardi/Staal/Stralman keep beasting it against them, the series is over in 6.

Also, if Kreider is doing his thing where he trucks everybody, the series will be over in 5.

The Penguins in the playoffs don't scare me at all.

They should. They've really only been losing to teams that out muscled them. Bruins and flyers. They were bullied out of the playoffs. A shoot out game plan will sink us against them.

 

[Raspewtin]

They should. They've really only been losing to teams that out muscled them. Bruins and flyers. They were bullied out of the playoffs. A shoot out game plan will sink us against them.

Why would we try to out run and gun the Penguins?

They're a team you need to grind and clamp down on. I think we could do that. Play them hard and physical, they'll get frustrated, and the series is already over. That's how the Flyers destroyed them in 2012.

Vigneault has done a great job preparing this team for games, and I'm curious to see what he does with this roster come playoff time.

 

[OverTheCap]

Make no mistake about it, the Rangers put themselves in this position. For years, they have forced players higher and higher in the lineup to mask the failure to produce a blue-chip homegrown talent.

Now here we are -- in a situation where good, but not great, players are set to be overpaid.

This is a good point - for years, Girardi and Callahan have logged tons of minutes, played on the first pairing/top 6 and in all situations, etc., and have been utilized as some elite players would. The major problem with that is that they aren't as talented as their minutes and role on this team would indicate.

Perhaps this is why Prust wanted more money as well - he was used on the 3rd line and expected a 3rd line contract in return, when in actuality his skillset is more suited to the 4th line.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Why would we try to out run and gun the Penguins?

They're a team you need to grind and clamp down on. I think we could do that. Play them hard and physical, they'll get frustrated, and the series is already over. That's how the Flyers destroyed them in 2012.

Vigneault has done a great job preparing this team for games, and I'm curious to see what he does with this roster come playoff time.

What makes you think we can out grind them? If there is anything that we are NOT, it is a physical and grind-it-out team. They're more physical than we are... and that's pitiful.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Make no mistake about it, the Rangers put themselves in this position. For years, they have forced players higher and higher in the lineup to mask the failure to produce a blue-chip homegrown talent.

Now here we are -- in a situation where good, but not great, players are set to be overpaid.

Good point. Yet another sign of incompetent management and preparation for the future.

The quicker hat Sather is gone, the better.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

What makes you think we can out grind them? If there is anything that we are NOT, it is a physical and grind-it-out team. They're more physical than we are... and that's pitiful.

Agree with this. It will be interesting to watch should the Rangers make the playoffs.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

1) How many times has Girardi played with another defenseman? How can anybodey call him a complimentary player, a guy who plays over 20 minutes a night of effective hockey.

2) This one might be a little tough to handle, A defenseman can still be really good and not put up a lot of points.

3) You can't judge negotiations that take a long time. Why? Because we don't know what the hold up is. It's very possible Sather doesn't want to sign either Girardi or Callahan during the season if the other guy doesn't have a contract. Why? Because this isn't a video game. Players DO sometimes lack focus based on off ice issues like contract negotiations. Just because posters don't think that's true doesn't mean it's not true.

4) Maybe, just maybe the Rangers aren't going to give these players away. Maybe the truth of the matter is the Rangers haven't agreed to trade either player because they haven't received a fair offer yet.

5) If the Rangers trade Girardi they better get back more than Barrie and a 1st.

6) The Rangers COULD really be concerned about the leadership group going forward if Richards, Callahan, and Girardi are gone next season. So, it's possible they are keeping their plans under wraps to not disrupt a dressing room that finally seems focused.

Lets face reality. The Rangers haven't agreed to terms on a contract because they don't know what the right thing to do is. That doesn't mean the Rangers are doing the wrong thing. This roster is bi-polar and Sather might want to see how the team is playing after the Olympics before doing ANYTHING. Being patient in these situations might be the right way to go. The Rangers haven't traded either player because a team hasn't offered enough to change Sather's plans of being patient. The Rangers are waiting to see how the team is playing at the deadline before deciding 100% what to do. So lets go off the safe assumption the Rangers have an idea what the guys will sign for and what the best trade for each player is. Why they should rush into signing or dealing the players now is crazy. It's just inpatient fans who need instant gratification demanding SOME sort of move when today, January 28, 2014 signing or trading ISN'T the right thing to do...Just because an Olympic trading freeze is coming up doesn't mean the Rangers have to make a trade.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Why would we try to out run and gun the Penguins?

They're a team you need to grind and clamp down on. I think we could do that. Play them hard and physical, they'll get frustrated, and the series is already over. That's how the Flyers destroyed them in 2012.

Vigneault has done a great job preparing this team for games, and I'm curious to see what he does with this roster come playoff time.

I think advocating trading Girardi and Callahan, and then talking about how this team could beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs are in direct contradiction to eachother.

If this team is to even have a puncher's chance to get past a Pittsburgh or Boston, they'll need Callahan and Girardi on the roster.

Its a **** long-term strategy, but the one I fear management has latched onto, as usual.

 

[RangerBoy]

Elliotte Friedman spoke to 2 NHL guys about a 90 cent or lower CDN. One guy expected the upper limit to be $1M less and the other said $1.5M less. $71M cap estimate. $69.5M-$70M. http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2014/01/nhl-gms-deal-with-double-trade-deadline.html

 

[Raspewtin]

What makes you think we can out grind them? If there is anything that we are NOT, it is a physical and grind-it-out team. They're more physical than we are... and that's pitiful.

Ehhh not sure about that. I'm just not convinced Pittsburgh is built well for the playoffs. They haven't won against a good playoff team in years. They barely beat the Islanders last year, got absolutely abused by Boston (I mean, I expected at least one win). I dunno, I'd like our chances.

 

[bernmeister]

Those are the wrong players from LA to target.

I agree we should take the best offer, but I disagree that this is an unacceptable offer.

Feel free to suggest who we can target and expect them to pony up.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Ranger have 3 games after the Olympic break. 3 games will determine the course for the next 7 years? Its 6 days bwtn the break ending and the deadline.