Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread Part VI: Gaborik for Peanuts

[Miller Time NYR]

So Bernmeister still thinks that AA is better than Stepan.

You're "surprised" Sather didn't go with your suggestion? Did you speak with him on the phone or something?

anisimov is probably better then stepan in nhl 13......

 

[Trxjw]

I got this from Spector's hockey.

I'm not really into Morrow on the team. If that's what indeed they are looking at.

I think Morrow missed one of the last two games. He also only played 10 minutes the game before that. Yikes.

Could Roy be a target? Rangers were rumored to want center depth during the ROR saga. Stepan and Richards have picked up their games, but how confident are they in Miller? Roy would add some serious scoring depth to the roster.

 

[Kershaw]

Morrow Clowe Murray, all three washed up, slow, aging players. The Rangers should have no interest in these types considering our putrid transition game.

 

[bernmeister]

...

I think the smart money is that McD will get a long term contract. Likely 4 years. He has been consistently good since he joined the team and he's only getting better. He's also arbitration eligible, so he'll have more leverage.

Staal got just under 4 mil per on a 5 year deal. I could see McD getting 4 - 4.5 per.

Agree, but I'd gamble a little more long term if McD obliges. His bottom is closer to 4.5 than 4, IMO, and a 6 year deal is 4.75-5m

Stepan will almost certainly get a 2 year bridge contract as he isn't arbitration eligible. I think 2.5 mil per year is right around what he'll get.

That he isn't arb eligible is the only thing keeping the number down somewhat. I think Slats tries a # closer to 3m per, just so that Stepan doesn't hold a grudge and seek payback next time he is eligible

Hagelin is the wild card. He's been great for us, but between the lockout and the time he played in the AHL last year, the sample size for him is small compared to the other 2. Hagelin has played 105 career games. McD has played 170 and Stepan has played 213. That just screams bridge contract. But he is also arbitration eligible.

I would guess that Hagelin will end up with a contract similar to Stepan. I don't see Sather giving him a long term deal. I'd bet that he will file for arbitration. Hopefully Sather can make a deal with him before the hearing.....

my prediction, Hagelin in between a long deal and a short bridge.
4 years, 2.75m, 3.5m, 4.25m, 5m

Hags could plateau, but think this is good if he begins to be Callahan lite for us.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I think Morrow missed one of the last two games. He also only played 10 minutes the game before that. Yikes.

Could Roy be a target? Rangers were rumored to want center depth during the ROR saga. Stepan and Richards have picked up their games, but how confident are they in Miller? Roy would add some serious scoring depth to the roster.

Wouldn't mind Roy, but he's brittle and kind of soft. If you play with Miller and Cally, though, it could end up being a good line.

 

[bernmeister]

The bolded would have been enough, don't you think?

I do think, and no, I think the explanation was warranted.

 

[cd211]

Agree.
Overall, in short term, compliance buyout allows Richards $$ to be redirected towards our UFAs. But we need to do still more.

And so what I said over a year ago, about thinking to move players like Girardi for a premium, or other moves, even if you moved a Stepan as an inducement, is coming to pass; these are they types of moves that need to eventually be considered, or we have to suffer the consequences.

NO way Girardi is moved.. the only fw i see being traded/moved is Kreider/gabs (kreider is doubtful), buyout for richards seems very possible.. and on d MDZ.. righty defenseman are hard to come by in this league..

Staal, McD, Girardi are here for long term forsure..

MDZ is always seen in the shadows as the person being shopped/considered in trades by sather to upgrade..

Stepan at this rate might be our number 1c of the future, hags is staple on lw 1/2line and with his speed its unlikely to find someone similar around the league like him..

all i know is if they are traded teams better pay up!!

 

[bernmeister]

If I'm Columbus, I don't make that deal.

Basically you're saying Stepan is worth Anisimov, Erixon, a 1st round pick and 5.6 million dollars. How does that make sense?

I'm not saying I was there in the negotiating room at the time.
IMO, My impression is Stepan was the guy Howson wanted from day 1, but Slats did not put on the table.

Had we given Howson what he wanted on condition we recovered assets as above, that would have been more advantageous to us.

I'n glad we got Nash.
Just sayin if Howson would have taken this to get Stepan, it would have been better for us.

By the way, my reply post was in the context of Sather with a track record of trying to juggle $$$. He made an informed and respectable decision to do what he did, but I think we'd have been better off as above.

In that context, if we are taking on 80ish mil of salary, we have no issue about demanding CBJ take Redden make his cap go by by.

We move Dubi, sorry to see go, but not at the price of the increase he earned.

AA would be due an increase, but would be holding down 2C for us, and could be a chip for a future deal.

So from a $$ standpoint, this would make more sense, and have been more consistent with how Slats usually squeezes.

At some point, both sides got tired of waiting and made the move they did.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm not saying I was there in the negotiating room at the time.
IMO, My impression is Stepan was the guy Howson wanted from day 1, but Slats did not put on the table.

Had we given Howson what he wanted on condition we recovered assets as above, that would have been more advantageous to us.

I'n glad we got Nash.
Just sayin if Howson would have taken this to get Stepan, it would have been better for us.

By the way, my reply post was in the context of Sather with a track record of trying to juggle $$$. He made an informed and respectable decision to do what he did, but I think we'd have been better off as above.

In that context, if we are taking on 80ish mil of salary, we have no issue about demanding CBJ take Redden make his cap go by by.

We move Dubi, sorry to see go, but not at the price of the increase he earned.

AA would be due an increase, but would be holding down 2C for us, and could be a chip for a future deal.

So from a $$ standpoint, this would make more sense, and have been more consistent with how Slats usually squeezes.

At some point, both sides got tired of waiting and made the move they did.

Columbus really isn't in a position to have dead cap space to the tune of 5+M dollars.

Also, I think you're mistaken about Stepan being the center piece to the deal. I think that Howson wanted:

Stepan, Kreider, Dubinsky and a 1st and settled for
Anisimov, Erixon, Dubinsky and a 1st.

He never would've made the trade you're suggesting.

 

[bernmeister]

Because Howson values his life?
Getting Redden back for Nash would have had mobs with pitchforks at his door.

That's not correct analysis.
It is a big misrepresentation as if I said Redden for Nash, 1 for 1 straight up.
Come on.

The deal in essence was obviously Stepan + for Nash, which you completely ignored.

Redden is only in there to the extent that we are taking in 80ish mil of salary.
At 8.x mil per for long term years.
That gives us justification to demand as part of the deal they eat Redden's 4ish mil for half of that. Which would have been reduced further by a compliance buy out, or maybe even trade w/o buyout (shocking, but St. Lou, who knew?).

 

[The Gloaming]

So it would be BETTER if we got rid of our 2nd line center? Impeccable logic there. I'm just glad that you're not the GM. Otherwise, you would have traded half this team for Taylor Hall. The other half would just run away in the middle of the night and never come back.

 

[bernmeister]

What sense would it make to have Columbus take on Redden? Surely his salary has less impact on the Rangers than the Blue Jackets.

Agreed.
But we had them over a barrel, cause Nash wanted out, gave very limited options, and they might have had to pay him if he showed up and went through the motions until they traded him.

Yes, CBJ, not out of goodness of the heart, but nonetheless did us favor, trading Nash at a discount.

However, we have taken on a commitment of 80ish mil for that, Have no problem with pushing Howson to eat some of it, especially if, in my scenario, he was getting the bluer chip he apparently, presumably wanted.

 

[bernmeister]

...

So Bernmeister still thinks that AA is better than Stepan.

As noted below by another poster, AA has more skill. He has upside.
Stepan has not been approaching his upside until about a month ago.
I was as correct to chide him for it then as I am obliged to acknowledge his improvement now.

That however is not the point.
YOU bring up "better".
The issue is not "better".

There are no sacred cows. Everybody has a value to keep, to develop, to deal.

Nash was a great deal. Would mine have been better? Arguably yes.

You're "surprised" Sather didn't go with your suggestion? Did you speak with him on the phone or something?

I did not represent that -- your words.
I am surprised because, as RangerBoy correctly pointed out, there is a track record of Slats trying to do deals that add cap for us when he can.

The Nash deal was a chance to do so, but ostensibly one not pursued due to decision to hold on to Stepan.

 

[Thirty One]

So it would be BETTER if we got rid of our 2nd line center? Impeccable logic there. I'm just glad that you're not the GM. Otherwise, you would have traded half this team for Taylor Hall. The other half would just run away in the middle of the night and never come back.

Well if you would read the first 5 pages of the Stepan thread, it would be clear to you that Stepan is not a 2nd line center. His skating stride is awkward.

 

[haohmaru]

Nash was a great deal. Would mine have been better? Arguably yes.

The problem is that your deal would never have happened. It wasn't in Columbus' best interests, it's not what Columbus was looking for and, most importantly, the deal they got was better.

They got 2 NHL top 9/top 6 players, a top 6 D, and a 1st which is > a top six, and a top 6/9, and a 5.6M dollar traffic cone.

 

[bernmeister]

anisimov is probably better then stepan in nhl 13......

Some people just want everything, their cake and eat it too.

Again, issue is not who is better, but net result of what we get.

Nash for less sacrificing Stepan >> Nash for more, not sacrificing Stepan.

Even w/Stepan, several posters are thinking aloud as to reacquire AA.

The correct focus is, if we did my deal, we would have had more depth, whatever difference there is between keeping AA and losing Stepan, the point is we would still have assets of 1st round pick + Erixon, whether we used him or traded him.

 

[The Gloaming]

Well if you would read the first 5 pages of the Stepan thread, it would be clear to you that Stepan is not a 2nd line center. His skating stride is awkward.

Clearly so. We here at HFNYR must judge our 22 year old centers rashly and harshly within the first 10 games of a season. Stepan sucks.

 

[bernmeister]

NO way Girardi is moved.. the only fw i see being traded/moved is Kreider/gabs (kreider is doubtful), buyout for richards seems very possible.. and on d MDZ.. righty defenseman are hard to come by in this league..

Staal, McD, Girardi are here for long term forsure..

MDZ is always seen in the shadows as the person being shopped/considered in trades by sather to upgrade..

Stepan at this rate might be our number 1c of the future, hags is staple on lw 1/2line and with his speed its unlikely to find someone similar around the league like him..

all i know is if they are traded teams better pay up!!

No one is saying give these guys away.
But again, there are no sacred cows.

You prefer Girardi to MDZ, fine.

MDZ is younger, less banged up, and by making less, helps with our cap situation, something to consider in choosing between these two D, or any other players.

 

[Kwayry]

Who is better value for Boyle from the Hawks? Pirri or McNeil?
I prefer McNeil because of the size and 2 way skills, but Pirri has the better upside.

 

[RangerBoy]

Hearing that Paul Gaustad may be available. Could be a good fit with a number of teams including the Bruins.

https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/311588188214919168

Traded a #1 pick for him. 4 years/$13M contract. Dumb *****.

I know the Bruins have strong interest in Ryane Clowe but asking price is 1st rd pk and prospect from what I am told. Too high.

https://twitter.com/MurphysLaw74/status/311588403235942400

High is any team paying that price.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

A 1st AND a prospect for Ryane Clowe? He's a rental with 0 goals on the season...

Quick, lets move Boyle for a first and a prospect.

 

[bernmeister]

...

Columbus really isn't in a position to have dead cap space to the tune of 5+M dollars

.
To which they could have used their compliance b/o instead of us. (At the time I THINK it was more like 4, but I admit that is from memory.)

We could have sweetened the deal in a minor way to help them pay for that.
But a main point remains.
We're eating 80mil of actual responsibility off your hands.
You're lucky we don't insist you give him up for free.

Also, I think you're mistaken about Stepan being the center piece to the deal. I think that Howson wanted:

Stepan, Kreider, Dubinsky and a 1st and settled for
Anisimov, Erixon, Dubinsky and a 1st.

This is a fair point. Let's discuss briefly.
I believe that Howson originally wanted Stepan, Kreider, Dubinsky and a 1st is/is approx, correct.

We understand there was no way he was going to get Kreider and all his potential. That's an irrational demand, an aberration not gonna happen on any actual deal.

So if we acknowledge that, then the totally unrealistic
Stepan, Kreider, Dubinsky and a 1st
becomes
Stepan, Dubinsky and a 1st and maybe something to replace Kreider

For better or worse that morphed into
Anisimov, Erixon, Dubinsky and a 1st.

He never would've made the trade you're suggesting.

If he considered Stepan the core he wanted, and given no Kreider, would have felt that a bigger feather on which to hang his cap, then could see him wanting to swap Stepan for AA. We agree to that, but not straight up.

Maybe a little more IS added.
Maybe we take the 1st off, allow Erixon and offer a third.
Maybe we take the 1st off, keep Erixon, and offer another prospect.

But we could have gotten the lion's share of that back.

 

[bernmeister]

The problem is that your deal would never have happened. It wasn't in Columbus' best interests, it's not what Columbus was looking for and, most importantly, the deal they got was better.

They got 2 NHL top 9/top 6 players, a top 6 D, and a 1st which is > a top six, and a top 6/9, and a 5.6M dollar traffic cone.

Yes, they got a better deal, we acquiesced.
If they really wanted Stepan, and we gave them Stepan + for Nash, the + being less than it turned out to be, that would have been better for us. I agree not for them. But what other serious options did they have to move Nash besides us?

I'm not saying we had to be mean, or overly hardball about it.
But there were other options, and like I said, usually Sather looks to move salary, ergo Redden (there was strong legit expectation that some buyouts would be in order in the new CBA, if for no other reason than to create roster flexiblity).

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Yes, they got a better deal, we acquiesced.
If they really wanted Stepan, and we gave them Stepan + for Nash, the + being less than it turned out to be, that would have been better for us. I agree not for them. But what other serious options did they have to move Nash besides us?

I'm not saying we had to be mean, or overly hardball about it.
But there were other options, and like I said, usually Sather looks to move salary, ergo Redden (there was strong legit expectation that some buyouts would be in order in the new CBA, if for no other reason than to create roster flexiblity).

A first was pretty much a neccessity in any deal for Nash. Stepan > AA. We lose that trade dealing steps over AA

 

[The Gloaming]

A first was pretty much a neccessity in any deal for Nash. Stepan > AA. We lose that trade dealing steps over AA

Please don't try to logically reason with him.