slipknottin
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Right, Del Zotto was banged up.
Thanks for clarifying that with the link you provided.
Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition
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Right, Del Zotto was banged up.
Thanks for clarifying that with the link you provided.
LaffyTaffyNYR
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Del Zotto played more than Stralman the first game Girardi was out, and 4 minutes less than him the 2nd game Girardi was out. Yep its clear Del Zotto is going to be on the bottom pairing going forward..
LaffyTaffyNYR
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regardless this discussion is kinda pointless, there are links that say the Rangers are not willing to break the 2 year bridge contract for O'Reilly and that O'Reilly is seeking close to 5m per year which the Rangers simply cant afford and would be fools to give out.
slipknottin
Registered User
That was never my point. My point was that Stralman has been playing as much as Del Zotto lately.
slipknottin
Registered User
smoneil
Registered User
Is Duncan Keith a 3rd pair guy? What about Doughty, Subban, Lidstrom, Seabrooke, Enstrom or Ehrhoff?
Del Zotto out-scored all those guys last year.
He was on the ice more per game than guys like Hamonic, Yandle, OEL, Carlson and Timonen. They all 3rd pair guys too?
With all of your over-the-top hyperbole, I'm seriously questioning whether you're even trying to be serious or if you're just trying to troll the entire board in here.
slipknottin
Registered User
Del Zotto is a 3rd pairing for the rangers. If hes a top 4, or top 2 pairing elsewhere then he holds tremendously more value for the rangers in a trade than he does staying here.
smoneil
Registered User
You can keep typing it until you're blue in the fingers--The only place where Del Zotto is a 3rd pair guy on this team is in your imagination. He's clearly in the top 4 here.
slipknottin
Registered User
Except he really isnt, unless he plays the wrong side, or staal/mcd do.
At LD Staal and McD are going to remain ahead of him.
Really I would call him more of a 4a, and stralman the 4b.
BTW, is O'Brien the guy we want in this trade? The guy that got undressed by Mario Lemieux, I mean Ales Hemsky?
LaffyTaffyNYR
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smoneil
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You are seriously over-rating Stralman. He has played well here BECAUSE he's been sheltered. Look at his track record. When teams try to play Stralman as anything more than a 3rd pair guy, disaster tends to strike.
And yes, MDZ is behind Staal and McD on the left. He's spent the better part of two years now working on playing his off side. Now that he's finally getting the hang of it, you want to move him!?
Like I said earlier--I still can't tell if you are serious in what you post. You point to lists of players who have had 55 point seasons by the age that RO'R did, but where is your list of defensemen who have put up 40+ points by Del Zotto's age? O'Reilly is doing his thing "with almost no talent" around him (even though Landeskog basically single-handedly doubled O'Reilly's point production last year), but Del Zotto gets no credit for putting up 40+ points while playing significant minutes on his off side?
O'Reilly is a "first line center" (even though he's only a 3rd line center on his own team, behind Stastny and Duchene, and would be a 3rd line center here, behind Richards and Stepan), and yet Del Zotto is a "3rd line guy" (even though he's had top 4 minutes consistently for more than a year, and plays more than 22 minutes per game in all situations).
Every time you cherry pick things to value about RO'R and things to minimize MDZ, it makes people wonder what your real motivation here is.
There's nothing on the Avs D that I'd want, but this is a pretty simple argument. I remember N. Dawes undressing C. Pronger a few years back and I would certainly have taken him at the time
Slick Rick 61
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The Rangers can't afford to trade any of their top 4 D for O'Reilly. Period. I like him a lot, but it's just addressing one issue and creating another. NYR and COL don't match up well here.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
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I really don't believe that moving Del Zotto for a F creates an "issue". We have 5 defenseman capable of playing top-4 minutes (DZ, Staal, Girardi, Stralman, and McDonagh). The bottom pairing is playing maybe 10 minutes a night. Gilroy has been solid, and the defenseman we get back from the Avalanche would be NHL-caliber, should the deal go through. A player like Zanon, Wilson, or O'Byrne. The Avs D is terrible, but the individual players aren't terrible in their proper roles. These players are playing way too many minutes because of the Avs' extremely weak defense. In a role where they play 10-15 mins a night, they'll play decent and be a good 3rd pair player.
Wilson is on IR. Zanon and O'Byrne are disgustingly awful. I really want to throw up every time I have to watch them play.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
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I really think it has to do with the fact that they're being very overplayed.
Gilroy was overplayed last year with the Lightning. In a lesser role with the Rangers, he looks a lot more useful. Looking up O'Byrne's minutes, he's playing between 17-20 minutes a night, which is crazy for a player of his caliber. He should be putting in 10-12 minutes TOPS, against lesser lines. He's more than likely playing against good players out there.
Yeah, well, you'd play Ryan O'Byrne in your 2nd pairing too if your 2 best healthy defensemen were Jan Hejda and Shane O'Brien.
The only D on the Avs worth pursuing is Tyson Barrie. He could replace some of the minutes and offense lost in a Del Zotto-O'Reilly trade. Barrie is 5-10. Torts had success with Dan Boyle who is 5-11. Both are right handed. Barrie is in the 2nd season of his 3 year ELC.
Goligoski for Neal and Niskanen.
DZ is the superior player to Goligoski.
Goligoski for Neal and Niskanen.
DZ is the superior player to Goligoski.
Lion Hound
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The Neal/Goglioski trade happened in Feb 2011. Neal was in a slight slump at the time but he was hyped as the next big power forward. He was about the same age as ROR. But, Neal was singed already with another year left on his contract. This leads me to believe that Sather has more leverage if the Rangers are truly in on ROR.
I know Brooks dismissed it already but HNIC seemed to think it was very real.
You can really tell who has watched this kid play and who hasn't. It's the Nash argument all over again.
Del Zotto, on this team, is the 4th best defensemen we have. While he's the best PMD we have, that doesn't necessarily put him in a different class than the other guys. For the sake of argument, let's say the deal is ROR and Barrie for MDZ and a prospect. You've dealt your 4th best defensemen, who has maybe #2 upside, for a guy who is arguably now in a tie as your 2nd best center and has #1 upside. You've also brought back a very good PMD who is right handed and NHL ready.
Center is arguably the most important position on the ice. Adding ROR allows Miller to return to the AHL to continue his development. It also gives us a viable center for Callahan on what has the makings of a very high-end shutdown line.
He's not likely ever going to be a 90pt first line center, but if he can give us 65+ points and elite two-way play, that's just fine by me.
Del Zotto, on this team, is the 4th best defensemen we have. While he's the best PMD we have, that doesn't necessarily put him in a different class than the other guys. For the sake of argument, let's say the deal is ROR and Barrie for MDZ and a prospect. You've dealt your 4th best defensemen, who has maybe #2 upside, for a guy who is arguably now in a tie as your 2nd best center and has #1 upside. You've also brought back a very good PMD who is right handed and NHL ready.
Center is arguably the most important position on the ice. Adding ROR allows Miller to return to the AHL to continue his development. It also gives us a viable center for Callahan on what has the makings of a very high-end shutdown line.
He's not likely ever going to be a 90pt first line center, but if he can give us 65+ points and elite two-way play, that's just fine by me.
LaffyTaffyNYR
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How come so many teams are jumping at the bit to trade for him then? There were MANy teams intereted in Nash (he just had a select few that he wanted to go to)?. This is far from a Nash situation, and people didnt want to include DZ for NASH, now we're talking about giving him up for ROR?
.. I'd take ROR, just not at the expense of making our defense much worse.We NEEDED Nash, he was a neccessity, not a luxury. We needed to add more scoring punch and more creativity. We needed someone who had the ability to take over a game, and we got that with Nash. Then we neded some depth to replace guys like AA or Dubi, and we did that with Pyatt, Powe, and the promotion of Miller.
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NYR Viper
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How come so many teams are jumping at the bit to trade for him then? There were MANy teams intereted in Nash (he just had a select few that he wanted to go to)?. This is far from a Nash situation, and people didnt want to include DZ for NASH, now we're talking about giving him up for ROR?
We NEEDED Nash, he was a neccessity, not a luxury. We needed to add more scoring punch and more creativity. We needed someone who had the ability to take over a game, and we got that with Nash. Then we neded some depth to replace guys like AA or Dubi, and we did that with Pyatt, Powe, and the promotion of Miller.
People didn't want to move MDZ in a package for Nash. MDZ for Nash? Absolutely.
LaffyTaffyNYR
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If they are terrible for the Avalanche, what on God's green earth do you think Torts is going to put any kind of trust in them and actually play them more than 5 minutes a game unless he's absolutely forced to. We saw what happens when we have no depth on defense in the playoffs last season, mcdonagh and Girardi played 10,000 minutes a series and we're dead by the time the ECF came around, not looking to be back in that situation again for a guy who would be a luxury here.
LaffyTaffyNYR
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its also not JUST Del Zotto, its Del Zotto AND a proven forward (at this point) for ROR, so thats still considered a package.
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