Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread III: "Trade 40 goal scorer for picks= Cup contenders" edition
- Thread starter Fitzy
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Not sure how I'm arguing in circles. My point is that Stepan at 20 scored 45 points as a rookie, ROR as a 19 year old scored 26 points as a second year player. Someone brought up defense. Well Stepan wasn't a great defensive player a a rookie, why is that so terrible?
NYR Viper
Registered User
That makes no sense. 26 points for an 18 or 19 year old center who is already well above average defensively is pretty good. O'Reilly is on the same level as Callahan defensively.
Bringing Boyle into this argument makes no sense whatsoever. If you have ever seen O'Reilly play you wouldn't ever compare the 2.
The Gloaming
23
Ok, but at age 21, he had 55 points. I see big improvement stats-wise. Why are you bringing up his offensive numbers when he was 19 and 20 years old? He put up the same amount of points as Boyle did last year, good for Boyle. Too bad that ROR was a teenager and playing against the opponent's top players every day.
However, I do find it alarming that he is trying to cash in after one good production year.
Wow, if you don't know the difference between being a rookie with no experience and a 20 year old with 2 years under his belt, I don't know what to tell you.
Seriously, Stepan is not even part of the trade rumor. I want to drop this before I get an infraction or derailing this thread.
Really hope this trade happens.
McIlrath is banging on the door. He will be here before this season is over.
Winning organizations maximize value, replace players and continue moving forward.
Turning Del Zotto into a future #1 center while having the organizational depth to move Del Zotto, is a solid move.
McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Stralman, McIlrath, Skjei, Noreau.
Cheap third pair guys as stop gaps, like Gilroy (who hasn't been on the ice for a goal against) and Eminger, and who ever will be available later.
This is a move that makes sense for both teams.
McIlrath is banging on the door. He will be here before this season is over.
Winning organizations maximize value, replace players and continue moving forward.
Turning Del Zotto into a future #1 center while having the organizational depth to move Del Zotto, is a solid move.
McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Stralman, McIlrath, Skjei, Noreau.
Cheap third pair guys as stop gaps, like Gilroy (who hasn't been on the ice for a goal against) and Eminger, and who ever will be available later.
This is a move that makes sense for both teams.
How do you know that the 55 points wasn't a fluke? I don't think he'll be a 26 point scorer but how do you know he's not really a 40-45 point scorer that had 1 nice 55 point year?
NYR Viper
Registered User
If you watch the way he plays and the way he creates his offense it would make more sense. He creates offense from defense. Takeaways.
Callahan is a great shot blocker and penalty killer. I'm not sure he's a great defensive player. Either way, I'd love to have a 2 way center with scoring potential, just not for Del Zotto.
Thirty One
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The Gloaming
23
slipknottin
Registered User
ROR was great defensively since he got into the league. He played against top opponents and was not asked to provide much offense his first two years, then he was moved to the top line where he was asked to score more and still play top defense. He was 20 years old that season. Led the league in takeaways and scored 55 points.
You have this idea that experience is the only thing that matters, and that is completely 100% wrong. Development matters, physical and mental.
Stepan spent his 18 and 19 year old years playing hockey in college, where he was developing. ROR spent his 18 and 19 year old years playing hockey in the NHL where he was developing.
You cant knock either for those early years, though there is no doubt ROR was NHL ready earlier, primarily because of how good he was defensively.
You are setting up this strange argument that ROR had to be better than Stepan at the same age, despite Stepan not even being in the NHL then. And then you are saying that even though ROR was very good defensively in his nhl career, that doesnt matter.
So what exactly are you trying to prove? That stepan produced more in the nhl when he wasent in the nhl?
NYR Viper
Registered User
I am just going to have to agree to disagree on the not moving MDZ and the fact that Callahan isn't a great defensive player.
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
I would make a deal focused around ROR and MDZ. Ryan O'Reilly is a more talented Callahan. Anyone here that is familiar with my thoughts on the team knows how I feel about Callahan, so that is HIGH praise coming from me.
Not the biggest MDZ fan, but there is no doubt this is a heavy price to pay. Still, MDZ isn't going to get big minutes with McDonagh and Staal here. Staal is playing very well right now, and the Rangers probably value him not only as a player, but also as a locker room personality. Staal is a hard worker, he has handled a lot of work and pressure from almost the beginning of his career, and he seems to have a very even-keeled personality. McD will only continue to improve. He's a tremendous young player. I don't think either is going anywhere.
It means MDZ's value to the Rangers is diminished. Frankly, I think McD or Staal would have accumulated numbers approaching MDZ's last year if they had as many PP opportunities with the big guns as MDZ did.
No way the Avs are trading Johnson, and no way are they getting as much in return for ROR as the reports claim they want.
Not the biggest MDZ fan, but there is no doubt this is a heavy price to pay. Still, MDZ isn't going to get big minutes with McDonagh and Staal here. Staal is playing very well right now, and the Rangers probably value him not only as a player, but also as a locker room personality. Staal is a hard worker, he has handled a lot of work and pressure from almost the beginning of his career, and he seems to have a very even-keeled personality. McD will only continue to improve. He's a tremendous young player. I don't think either is going anywhere.
It means MDZ's value to the Rangers is diminished. Frankly, I think McD or Staal would have accumulated numbers approaching MDZ's last year if they had as many PP opportunities with the big guns as MDZ did.
No way the Avs are trading Johnson, and no way are they getting as much in return for ROR as the reports claim they want.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Sting so you believe the Avs would add to O'Reilly considering the contract dispute and the other deals that have been made (Johnson from STL, Goligoski from Pitt)?
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
Callahan is one of the best defensive forwards in the league. He's one of the best players away from the puck in the league, overall, not just defensively. His anticipation, decision making, and positioning are elite.
Away from the puck, he is in the same class as Kesler, ROR, Sharp, Jordan Staal, Backes, Mike Richards, Nielsen, Mikko Koivu, Fisher, etc. Basically a notch below Datsyuk, Toews, Bergeron.
These players have a tremendous impact on the game most shifts they take. Watch most Ranger games, and that's what Callahan does. Is he perfect? No, and neither are the rest of these guys. They just simply make the right play more often than not because usually, they are in the right place at the right time, making the right decision.
McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Stralman.
Stralman has been outstanding. And based on his play and production from prior years, there's nothing to indicate a drop off. He's been a solid player hi whole career.
McIlrath is very close.
Its a move that can be made without hurting the club.
NYR Viper
Registered User
They would have to get a defenseman back but besides Johnson I don't see much....
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
I don't know that they would add anything major. I'd love to see something like O'Reilly and O'Brien (who is nothing special, but a decent stopgap) for Del Zotto and Boyle. Wouldn't mind picking up a prospect from them, like a Nermark or one of the centers in their organization. IMO, the Avs would be dumb to deal ROR at all unless they absolutely can't come to an agreement. Guys like that are the heart of a team, and you need them to compete for a championship. They get you deep into the playoffs, and they earn your team a lot of extra points during the regular season.
Curious to see how much Sather would be willing to pay ROR. It could impact the Gaborik situation down the line potentially.
slipknottin
Registered User
I still say Stefan Elliott. He needs development and some time, but he could be a top offensive defenseman. Can skate and shoot, and hes right handed.
Elliot/Barrie both RH, PMD and former WHL defensemen of the year in back-to-back years.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Would the Rangers be willing to take on a prospect like that considering they are trying to win now?
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
I would love Elliot, but I have a hard time seeing the Avs moving him.
Man, ROR and Callahan on the ice at the same time would be so much fun to watch. Talk about a shutdown line.
Man, ROR and Callahan on the ice at the same time would be so much fun to watch. Talk about a shutdown line.
slipknottin
Registered User
They arent "trying to win now" though. At least not the way they are building.
They are trying to win every year. In which case, absolutely they are.
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