Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 61

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[Big Empty]

Forwards on the current roster that I’d keep:

Suzuki
Caufield
Poehling
Evans
Lehkonen

Maybe: Gallagher, Anderson, Toffoli

You can’t entirely gut your roster like Arizona. It sends a bad message to the young guys when you expect to lose every night. I know we’re already losing as is but getting rid of good leaders like Anderson or Toffoli is not the solution. Gallagher is someone I’d be more opening to moving because his contract is not going to age well.

For example, Gorton didn’t trade Kreider in 2020 when he easily could’ve gotten a 1st+ back for him at the deadline. Instead he signed him to an extension.

Icing a roster of players 25 and under isn’t the solution IMO. You need to keep certain guys in the room. I’d get rid of guys like Drouin, Hoffman, Armia, and Dvorak though.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Poor soul thinking it takes 4 years to make a team competitive.

4 years lol.

See you in 2026-27?!! LMAO!!!

You guys are hilarious, you guys really think they're going to gut this roster and start over from scratch like they're an expansion team lol.

Competitive? Ya, that may take less than 4 years. Capable of winning a cup? Can't see how that doesn't take less that 4 years unless the guys in the system have much higher upside than reported and/or the team gets incredibly lucky. Too few core qualities guys on the team/in the system.

I'm also not sure why competitive should be the goal, that was the 2017-2018 to 2020-2021 plan and it generally sucked, had the best outcome and left a cap mess.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The last page of the previous thread had some real doozies. Anybody who thinks it's acceptable for this team to suck for another four years is completely off their rocker.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

@417 and you act that we have a solid prospect core in 3 years+ , all veterans and Price are gone
The only top 4 Def with potential to this day in the Ahl or NHL is Romanov.

We have 0 depth , prospect pool is overrated. Absolutely 0 first liner elite.

Team was pretty much missing the playoff 5 years in a row with veterans roster if it was not for COVID.

Rangers got Trouva Panarin and Fox for free and after 4years they are about to make playoffs again.

We are beyond 3 years. If you think a top 3 picks , with 3-4 veterans selling with a 10.5m goalie shaky who's injured to the bones will make us competitive in 2 years. You are absolutely clueless.

3 years that's the minimum of time to sell all the scrap in this team to begin with.

1 year and a half to get rid of Byron and Drouin
This season for Perreault Paquette Chariot Lekhonen and Kulak
2years+ Price Petry Gallagher Toffoli Hoffman Armia.


It's gonna be a long road and the good road to take

 

[417]

@417 and you act that we have a solid prospect core in 3 years+ , all veterans and Price are gone
The only top 4 Def with potential to this day in the Ahl or NHL is Romanov.

I'm fairly confident Guhle will make it to the NHL...we'll see with Norlinder, Harris, Struble, Fairbrother, Xekaj and Mailloux.

Not to mention, that we don't know what moves in terms of trades or more draft picks that will happen between now and then.

We have 0 depth , prospect pool is overrated. Absolutely 0 first liner elite.

Team was pretty much missing the playoff 5 years in a row with veterans roster if it was not for COVID.

Rangers got Trouva Panarin and Fox for free and after 4years they are about to make playoffs again.

We are beyond 3 years. If you think a top 3 picks , with 3-4 veterans selling with a 10.5m goalie shaky who's injured to the bones will make us competitive in 2 years. You are absolutely clueless.

3 years that's the minimum of time to sell all the scrap in this team to begin with.

1 year and a half to get rid of Byron and Drouin
This season for Perreault Paquette Chariot Lekhonen and Kulak
2years+ Price Petry Gallagher Toffoli Hoffman Armia.


It's gonna be a long road and the good road to take

Your opinion or evaluation of our prospect base, doesn't determine the timeline (and neither does mine mind you)...

In any case, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think it can take up to 4-5 years for this team to be competitive...complete madness, no offense.

Its not the 90s anymore...you don't have to suck for years before you turn things around. If Gorton is the least bit competent, and I believe that he is, there's absolutely no reason why this team can't be in a position to compete in 2 years.

Hell if he plays this right, this team could be a playoff team as soon as next year and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

Look at how quickly things turned around in New York while Gorton was there and they were even in worse shape than we were then.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

@417 and you act that we have a solid prospect core in 3 years+ , all veterans and Price are gone
The only top 4 Def with potential to this day in the Ahl or NHL is Romanov.

We have 0 depth , prospect pool is overrated. Absolutely 0 first liner elite.

Team was pretty much missing the playoff 5 years in a row with veterans roster if it was not for COVID.

Rangers got Trouva Panarin and Fox for free and after 4years they are about to make playoffs again.

We are beyond 3 years. If you think a top 3 picks , with 3-4 veterans selling with a 10.5m goalie shaky who's injured to the bones will make us competitive in 2 years. You are absolutely clueless.

3 years that's the minimum of time to sell all the scrap in this team to begin with.

1 year and a half to get rid of Byron and Drouin
This season for Perreault Paquette Chariot Lekhonen and Kulak
2years+ Price Petry Gallagher Toffoli Hoffman Armia.


It's gonna be a long road and the good road to take

We're not the Arizona Coyotes, dude. Not everybody needs to be sold off. By the way, the Rangers didn't tear it down, despite their letter.

 

[417]

The last page of the previous thread had some real doozies. Anybody who thinks it's acceptable for this team to suck for another four years is completely off their rocker.

Like I'm not even sure if it's just some joke lol

Some people can't handle the Habs having a 7 game losing streak...imagine them suggesting they're ready to endure 4-5 years of misery lol

 

[FrankMTL]

I don't know if this was already mentioned (probably), and I know this website is garbage, but they say that Edmundson mentioned to Gorton that he would like to be traded to a Western Team if possible to be closer to his dad (Cancer).

Hockey30 | Joel Edmundson veut se faire ÉCHANGER dans L'OUEST CANADIEN!!

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Depending on what shape their bodies are in, guys like Anderson, Dvorak and Petry are the kind of guys that I'd like to keep around for a turnaround. Petry is getting up there in age but his physical skills don't seem to have diminished. I wouldn't mind selling off on a guy like Gallagher because I do think his contract is a bit rich for what I think he'll bring, but he seems to have proven wrong every time.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm fairly confident Guhle will make it to the NHL...we'll see with Norlinder, Harris, Struble, Fairbrother, Xekaj and Mailloux.

Not to mention, that we don't know what moves in terms of trades or more draft picks that will happen between now and then.



Your opinion doesn't determine the timeline...

In any case, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think it can take up to 4-5 years...complete madness, no offense.

Its not the 90s anymore...you don't have to suck for years before you turn things around. If Gorton is the least bit competent, and I believe that he is, there's absolutely no reason why this team can't be in a position to compete in 2 years.

Look at how quickly things turned around in New York while Gorton was there and they were even in worse shape than we were then.

Just curious, but what exactly does compete mean to you?

And the Rangers probably aren't a great example for what you're suggesting. Their rebuild on the fly started with the Stepan trade (June 23, 2017) and they haven't made the playoffs since (4 seasons). And in that time:

-The Rangers won a draft lottery twice.
-Had Fox and Trouba basically force their way to the Rangers.
-Had Panarin want to join them.

And the Rangers still have their issues. Plus I don't think their cap situation was ever as bloated as Montreal's is now. Based on the Rangers rebuild, I'd be surprised if, in the event Montreal rebuilds, it takes less than 4 years.

 

[417]

Just curious, but what exactly does compete mean to you?

A playoff team or at the very least, a team capable of competing for the playoffs...that's something that I think can happen as soon as next year if Gorton & the GM play their cards right.

And the Rangers probably aren't a great example for what you're suggesting. Their rebuild on the fly started with the Stepan trade (June 23, 2017) and they haven't made the playoffs since (4 seasons). And in that time:

-The Rangers won a draft lottery twice.
-Had Fox and Trouba basically force their way to the Rangers.
-Had Panarin want to join them.

And the Rangers still have their issues. Plus I don't think their cap situation was ever as bloated as Montreal's is now. Based on the Rangers rebuild, I'd be surprised if, in the event Montreal rebuilds, it takes less than 4 years.

Actually, that's incorrect.

That famous letter the Rangers sent to their fans, which I always said was a whole lot of lip service, was sent on February 8th, 2018.

So we're coming up on 4 years.

Since then

2018-19 - missed the playoffs
2019-20 - made the playoffs
2020-21 - missed the playoffs but they had 60pts
2021-22 - they're currently 6th overall

So in other words, basically 2 years after telling their fans they were rebuilding, they were competitive again.

So yeah...my example works just fine.

Teams like the Arizona Coyotes and Buffalo Sabres have really fooled fans into thinking that any professional franchise would accept sucking for up to 5 years before they're ready to start competing.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Just curious, but what exactly does compete mean to you?

And the Rangers probably aren't a great example for what you're suggesting. Their rebuild on the fly started with the Stepan trade (June 23, 2017) and they haven't made the playoffs since (4 seasons). And in that time:

-The Rangers won a draft lottery twice.
-Had Fox and Trouba basically force their way to the Rangers.
-Had Panarin want to join them.

And the Rangers still have their issues. Plus I don't think their cap situation was ever as bloated as Montreal's is now. Based on the Rangers rebuild, I'd be surprised if, in the event Montreal rebuilds, it takes less than 4 years.

The Rangers announced a 'rebuild' at the end of the 2017-2018 season and had a winning record by the 2019-2020 season. They were 37-28-5 with a +12 differential. They only had a losing record during the 2018-2019 season after the revered letter.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

A playoff team or at the very least, a team capable of competing for the playoffs...that's something that I think can happen as soon as next year if Gorton & the GM play their cards right.


Actually, that's incorrect.

That famous letter the Rangers sent to their fans, which I always said was a whole lot of lip service, was sent on February 8th, 2018.

So we're coming up on 4 years.

Since then

2018-19 - missed the playoffs
2019-20 - made the playoffs
2020-21 - missed the playoffs but they had 60pts
2021-22 - they're currently 6th overall

So in other words, basically 2 years after telling their fans they were rebuilding, they were competitive again.

So yeah...my example works just fine.

Teams like the Arizona Coyotes and Buffalo Sabres have really fooled fans into thinking that any professional franchise would accept
sucking for up to 5 years before they're ready to start competing.

Made all the more funny by just how ridiculously poor Arizona and Buffalo are as overall franchises. I love when someone brings up Edmonton as well when discussing succesful rebuilds. It's been done more than once on this board.

 

[417]

Made all the more funny by just how ridiculously poor Arizona and Buffalo are as overall franchise. I love when someone brings up Edmonton as well when discussing succesful rebuilds. It's been done more than once on this board.

The only things teams like Arizona and Buffalo care about is not being in the red...for most professional franchises, winning is just as important.

And there's no self-respecting team that would accept losing for up to 5 years before being competitive.

This isn't NHL on PS5 where you can just simulate seasons like never happened and just fast forward to the good parts.

If the arrow isn't pointing up on this organization by this time 2023...something will have gone terribly wrong with the Gorton/GM hires.

 

[DAChampion]

The last page of the previous thread had some real doozies. Anybody who thinks it's acceptable for this team to suck for another four years is completely off their rocker.

It's inevitable. The team is now in a weak position and can't just become a bubble team overnight regardless.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It's inevitable. The team is now in a weak position and can't just become a bubble team overnight regardless.

If the team is still sucking in 3+ years, Gorton failed. Period. Teams that have to suck this long usually do so because they have critical organizational problem that go beyond hockey or drafted really badly with high picks.

 

[417]

It's inevitable. The team is now in a weak position and can't just become a bubble team overnight regardless.

I mean...at this point in the season, no.

But they could as soon as next year if that's the approach they want to take.

 

[DAChampion]

If the team is still sucking in 3+ years, Gorton failed. Period. Teams that have to suck this long usually do so because they have critical organizational problem that go beyond hockey or drafted really badly with high picks.

Or because they're starting from an incredibly weak position as the Habs under Gorton are.

The Habs now have a middling farm system, an underwhelming youth corps, and a lot of veterans on bloated contracts.

Like it or not, this will take a while.

 

[Captain Mountain]

A playoff team or at the very least, a team capable of competing for the playoffs...that's something that I think can happen as soon as next year if Gorton & the GM play their cards right.

I mean, sure, competing for the playoffs is fine, but I'd think the Habs would have higher ambitions than being a team in the top 2/3rds of the NHL.

Actually, that's incorrect.

That famous letter the Rangers sent to their fans, which I always said was a whole lot of lip service, was sent on February 8th, 2018.

So we're coming up on 4 years.

Since then

2018-19 - missed the playoffs
2019-20 - made the playoffs
2020-21 - missed the playoffs but they had 60pts
2021-22 - they're currently 6th overall

So in other words, basically 2 years after telling their fans they were rebuilding, they were competitive again.

So yeah...my example works just fine.

Teams like the Arizona Coyotes and Buffalo Sabres have really fooled fans into thinking that any professional franchise would accept sucking for up to 5 years before they're ready to start competing.

Its not incorrect.

1) The letter wasn't the start of the rebuild. The start of the rebuild was June 23, 2017 - A Timeline of the New York Rangers Rebuild.
Gorton deserves kudos for Rangers' rebuild on the fly | ProHockeyTalk | NBC Sports

It was "rebuild on the fly" that morphed into a full rebuild when

2) They didn't make the playoffs in 2019-2020. They finished 7th in their division, made the play-in tournament, got smoked by the Hurricanes and then won the draft lottery. They were also one of the luckiest teams in the NHL that season and were analytically awful in most areas. They weren't competitive at all.

The Sabres have had failed rebuilds, and it wasn't 4 years, they're in year 10 of missing the playoffs.

Arizona Coyotes have been bad for almost as long (going on 9 years with sneaking into the playoffs in the 2019-2020 by beating the Blackhawks in the play-in round). They also generally didn't try rebuilding, they were trying to be competitive. They were just bad.

And neither of those organizations ever accepted sucking that long.

The truth is that building a core takes time and luck. If Montreal rebuilds (and they should), it wouldn't be shocking if Montreal doesn't make the playoffs for another 4-5 years, even if they made moves to make the playoffs. It would be expected.

 

[417]

Or because they're starting from an incredibly weak position as the Habs under Gorton are.

The Habs now have a middling farm system, an underwhelming youth corps, and a lot of veterans on bloated contracts.

Like it or not, this will take a while.

I'm not sure I agree with how you're describing this...of course, it's hard to look past what's happened this year...but I think too many people are quick to act like guys like Price, Petry (and i've been very hard on him this year), Edmunson, Gallagher, Toffoli, Anderson, Hoffman can't play and they're all bloated contracts that need to get moved out ASAP before this team can do anything.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

For whatever reason, it seems like everything that could go wrong with this team has...but I don't believe it's as rotten as it appears to be. It's almost like the opposite of the Cup run where it seemed like everything that could go right, did.

It's hard to have perspective this season, to step away and evaluate things away from the scope of horror that is the 2021-22 season.

But I don't believe things are as bad as they seem right now.

I know, probably not a popular take in this era of "tear it all down"...but that's truly what I think.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Or because they're starting from an incredibly weak position as the Habs under Gorton are.

The Habs now have a middling farm system, an underwhelming youth corps, and a lot of veterans on bloated contracts.

Like it or not, this will take a while.

The idea that our veterans can be judged fairly with that trainwreck of a defense we have seems overly reactive to me.

 

[417]

I mean, sure, competing for the playoffs is fine, but I'd think the Habs would have higher ambitions than being a team in the top 2/3rds of the NHL.

I think you need realistic flag poles...this team is the 2nd worst in the NHL.

Before aspiring for the Cup, you have to aspire to be a competitive team first.

Its not incorrect.

1) The letter wasn't the start of the rebuild. The start of the rebuild was June 23, 2017 - A Timeline of the New York Rangers Rebuild.
Gorton deserves kudos for Rangers' rebuild on the fly | ProHockeyTalk | NBC Sports

It was "rebuild on the fly" that morphed into a full rebuild when

2) They didn't make the playoffs in 2019-2020. They finished 7th in their division, made the play-in tournament, got smoked by the Hurricanes and then won the draft lottery. They were also one of the luckiest teams in the NHL that season and were analytically awful in most areas. They weren't competitive at all.

Yeah, I don't think I was incorrect...Whether they started the rebuild in June of 2017 or February of 2018, it's the same "hockey year", so my point still applies.

2 years after "rebuilding on the fly", they were a competitive team that made the playoffs and the following year missed the playoffs in the shortened season despite having 60pts and this year they are 6th overall.

So it doesn't change my timeline.

The Sabres have had failed rebuilds, and it wasn't 4 years, they're in year 10 of missing the playoffs.

Arizona Coyotes have been bad for almost as long (going on 9 years with sneaking into the playoffs in the 2019-2020 by beating the Blackhawks in the play-in round). They also generally didn't try rebuilding, they were trying to be competitive. They were just bad.

And neither of those organizations ever accepted sucking that long.

The truth is that building a core takes time and luck. If Montreal rebuilds (and they should), it wouldn't be shocking if Montreal doesn't make the playoffs for another 4-5 years, even if they made moves to make the playoffs. It would be expected.

Yes, the Sabres & Coyotes are bad examples because they're not interested in winning...they're only interested in being profitable.

And sorry, but it would be absolutely shocking to me if the Habs didn't make the playoffs for another 4-5 years...Gorton wouldn't survive if that was the case and neither would the incoming GM.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I mean, sure, competing for the playoffs is fine, but I'd think the Habs would have higher ambitions than being a team in the top 2/3rds of the NHL.



Its not incorrect.

1) The letter wasn't the start of the rebuild. The start of the rebuild was June 23, 2017 - A Timeline of the New York Rangers Rebuild.
Gorton deserves kudos for Rangers' rebuild on the fly | ProHockeyTalk | NBC Sports

It was "rebuild on the fly" that morphed into a full rebuild when

2) They didn't make the playoffs in 2019-2020. They finished 7th in their division, made the play-in tournament, got smoked by the Hurricanes and then won the draft lottery. They were also one of the luckiest teams in the NHL that season and were analytically awful in most areas. They weren't competitive at all.

The Sabres have had failed rebuilds, and it wasn't 4 years, they're in year 10 of missing the playoffs.

Arizona Coyotes have been bad for almost as long (going on 9 years with sneaking into the playoffs in the 2019-2020 by beating the Blackhawks in the play-in round). They also generally didn't try rebuilding, they were trying to be competitive. They were just bad.

And neither of those organizations ever accepted sucking that long.

The truth is that building a core takes time and luck. If Montreal rebuilds (and they should), it wouldn't be shocking if Montreal doesn't make the playoffs for another 4-5 years, even if they made moves to make the playoffs. It would be expected.

Calling a team that was 37-28-5 with a positive differential 'not competitive at all' is a ridiculous take that no one should be indulging. They were 7th in the most competitive division in hockey.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I think you need realistic flag poles...this team is the 2nd worst in the NHL.

Before aspiring for the Cup, you have to aspire to be a competitive team first.

Sure, but the Habs just did 3 years of aspiring to be competitive and even managed a Cinderella cup run. Now look where they are. The process is very different.

Yeah, I don't think I was incorrect...Whether they started the rebuild in June of 2017 or February of 2018, it's the same "hockey year", so my point still applies.

2 years after "rebuilding on the fly", they were a competitive team that made the playoffs and the following year missed the playoffs in the shortened season despite having 60pts and this year they are 6th overall.

So it doesn't change my timeline.

When does a hockey year start to you? Because there is a world of difference between making a rebuild decision and taking immediate steps before the draft and free agency as opposed to right before the trade deadline.

And they didn't make the playoffs in 2019-2020. The NHL was VERY clear that teams that didn't win the play-in tournament did not make the playoffs. They also weren't that competitive, they were pretty garbage outside of a few players.

And you're still ignoring how lucky they got.

I think the Habs can be a competitive non-playoff team in less than 4 years. I don't expect them to be a playoff team for a while though. And I'm not going to base my expectations based on situations where teams got luckier than most.

Yes, the Sabres & Coyotes are bad examples because they're not interested in winning...they're only interested in being profitable.

And sorry, but it would be absolutely shocking to me if the Habs didn't make the playoffs for another 4-5 years...Gorton wouldn't survive if that was the case and neither would the incoming GM.

Coyotes? Sure. Sabres? No, they wanted to be competitive, they just ****ed up.

As for surviving, it depends on Molson TBH, he was excessively patient with Bergevin. I'd also point out that Gorton didn't survive the Rangers rebuild either, so I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't survive Montreal's, even if he does an excellent job. Because people are impatient.