HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[DAChampion]

which third have worsened?

We don't know yet, but we do know the law, which is that league wide there will be 32*82/2 =1312 wins across the NHL next season, and that they will maintain of only one winner per game.

 

[DAChampion]

Is drafting, developing and implementing these players a concept?

So trading for players, signing UFAs, and picking up the occasional gem off the waiver wire is "inorganic"?

No, that's just using buzzwords to mask the absence of any coherent thinking. Very corporate.

Some real talk: Each of drafting, developing, trading, signing, etc is a valid method for building a better team. And if you're building a contender, you probably make use of them all over a period of several years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I never said top 6 of cup contender, I said he isn’t a top 6 period. Pezz can be a second line guy for now, lol. Just because they play there doesn’t mean they are, end of story.

Pezz won’t put up 50 points. I expect Newhook will. As we said earlier, Droun’s not a real second liner but can fill in on a great team. I don’t think Newhook will need that. He and Dach should be able to produce 2nd line number. We’ll see.

Growing "organically" isn't an actual concept, it's a buzzword. In this case as in others, people are using buzzwords because they can't be bothered to explain what they actually mean.

Growing organically means drafting and developing your own prospects or trading for young prospects and developing them yourself. Hugo himself has used this term. It’s not a buzzword nor is it a hard concept to grasp.

So trading for players, signing UFAs, and picking up the occasional gem off the waiver wire is "inorganic"?

It’s different from building within. I haven’t heard the term ‘Inorganic’ used for this but feel free to pioneer it.

Is ‘rebuilding’ a meaningless buzzword? I don’t think so. It’s been defined here many times and people have a general understanding of its meaning. Reducing it to being a ‘buzzword’ is simply a means of discrediting the approach and that’s not going to fly.

Many of us have screamed for a rebuild for years. Now that it’s here we need to see it through. Impatience from some was expected. It always happens. The hard part of rebuilding is the development piece. It’s when some want quick fixes to accelerate things. Shortcuts are only going to interfere with the hard work that’s been done.

By all means add a piece here or there but when people say ‘it has to be done now!’ Then I tune out.

No, it doesn’t have to be done now. No we don’t NEED to add Laine. We’re likely to miss the playoffs whether we add him or not and we’re likely to improve in the standings whether we add him or not. The reason for this is we’re building organically and younger players are improving while new players are making their way into the lineup.

And btw, if you want the playoffs this year… get a blueliner. That’s where I think we’ll really struggle.

 

[26Mats]

Columbus doesn't want anything to do with Anderson. Armia and Dvo won't land you seconds, maybe Savard. Anyways, I don't believe Laine in MTL will do any good. The Habs should target Backstrom's contract or Oshie. They can force the Caps to move a second.

Getting a pick from Washington would be awesome!

We'll see about Armia and Dvo at the deadline...

 

[Habby4Life]

We also don't compete in a league of one. Teams around us will expect improvements as well.

It seems like the expectation from the do nothing crowd is that every single young player will improve, we will have no injuries and teams around us simply do not exist.

The only addition is a possibility Dach plays the majority of the season. Not every guy will improve and injuries are going to happen. This team today is bottom 5.

At some point they have to reward the core by giving them help. It doesn’t have to be Laine but I’m convinced Hugo will add a top 6 but if it was up to me I would. He is the exact age, term, pedigree that is worthy of such a gamble and to me it’s not much of a gamble at all.

 

[Gustave]

There have been alot of ifs associated with him for the last few years. I'm not a fan of his game... and definitely not a fan when he doesn't have the puck on his stick.

Id prefer to keep the cap space. Maybe a better an opportunity or two comes available in the next year or so, and you will be better positioned to pounce on more reliable assets.

Well, we have 20 millions bucks available si I'm not worried about any player grabbing that share.

We'll be able to pounce on a lot even if we do acquire a full cap Laine.

 

[salbutera]

Would you do:
To MTL: Laine (at least 1.2M retained)
To CLB: Anderson + Barron/Struble + 2025 Florida 1st.

We get Laine AND lose Anderson.
Columbus gets a 1st, plus a young dman. Hughes just turned a late 1st and a 2nd into Hage. I think he could do a lot with that pick, and the surplus 2nds we'll have from trading Savard, Armia, and Dvo at the TDL. I don't want to lose that pick. But I do want to try out Laine and lose Anderson's cap hit.

Aaron Portzline who’s very connected to CBJ owner and quite credible has been starry in saying CBJ only want picks / prospects not rostered players - proposed deal won’t work for CBJ.

As I posted yesterday, I’m willing to overpay with Barron + 2nd / 3rd

 

[vokiel]

Would you do:
To MTL: Laine (at least 1.2M retained)
To CLB: Anderson + Barron/Struble + 2025 Florida 1st.

We get Laine AND lose Anderson.
Columbus gets a 1st, plus a young dman. Hughes just turned a late 1st and a 2nd into Hage. I think he could do a lot with that pick, and the surplus 2nds we'll have from trading Savard, Armia, and Dvo at the TDL. I don't want to lose that pick. But I do want to try out Laine and lose Anderson's cap hit.

I'd probably hang on to Struble, since we just successfully developed him. I'd be more into offering long shots like Konyushkov and Kapanen.

No one will want waiver fodder Barron.

Aaron Portzline who’s very connected to CBJ owner and quite credible has been starry in saying CBJ only want picks / prospects not rostered players - proposed deal won’t work for CBJ.

As I posted yesterday, I’m willing to overpay with Barron + 2nd / 3rd

Then they can stop the rumor mill, because no team is taking a risk on Laine without off-loading a serious portion of his cap hit.

 

[Habby4Life]

So trading for players, signing UFAs, and picking up the occasional gem off the waiver wire is "inorganic"?

No, that's just using buzzwords to mask the absence of any coherent thinking. Very corporate.

Some real talk: Each of drafting, developing, trading, signing, etc is a valid method for building a better team. And if you're building a contender, you probably make use of them all over a period of several years.

Nailed it.

 

[26Mats]

Aaron Portzline who’s very connected to CBJ owner and quite credible has been starry in saying CBJ only want picks / prospects not rostered players - proposed deal won’t work for CBJ.

As I posted yesterday, I’m willing to overpay with Barron + 2nd / 3rd

It depends if they want that 1st over a 3rd more than not taking back salary.

 

[DAChampion]

Barron and a 2nd for Laine without retention is approximately fair, though I don't know if CBJ cares about D prospects.

 

[26Mats]

Barron and a 2nd for Laine without retention is approximately fair, though I don't know if CBJ cares about D prospects.

ok, but it's not about being fair. It's about beating the next best offer.

 

[DAChampion]

ok, but it's not about being fair. It's about beating the next best offer.

I have no idea what the next best offer is, but if another team overpays for Laine then they should have Laine.

At some point they have to reward the core by giving them help.

Seconded.

 

[DAChampion]

But then this unnatural (illegal? possibly.) would get in the way of the tank and throwing away another year. We can't have that. We must grow organically.

As you pointed out, Hughes doesn't actually have the same strange ideological opposition to trades as some posters here do.

Hughes was willing to acquire Monahan, he was willing to trade Romanov for Dach, to trade Petey for Matheson, a first for Newhook, Lehkonen for Barron, etc. The evidence is that Hughes is willing to use every tool at his disposal rather than impose an exotic "no trades" handicap on himself.

 

[MrNasty]

Barron and a 2nd for Laine without retention is approximately fair, though I don't know if CBJ cares about D prospects.

defense prospects is an area they are actually quite weak in.

 

[DAChampion]

defense prospects is an area they are actually quite weak in.

And heck maybe Timmins wants Harris or Struble back.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

ok, but it's not about being fair. It's about beating the next best offer.

No it isn't. That's how you end up never winning. At this stage of the rebuild you make an offer that works for your team. If that is not enough you move on. When you believe you can win a Cup you overpay for a player if you believe he is the missing piece.

I'd probably hang on to Struble, since we just successfully developed him. I'd be more into offering long shots like Konyushkov and Kapanen.

No one will want waiver fodder Barron.


Then they can stop the rumor mill, because no team is taking a risk on Laine without off-loading a serious portion of his cap hit.

Struble is expendable. Konyushov and Kapanen are more valuable than Struble. Barron is not waver fodder.

 

[calder candidate]

Laine is not a 40 goal scorer. At least he hasn't proven that yet. Caufield is if he completely recovers from his injury. And Suzuki might well score 40.

 

[WinterLion]

I don't see how getting Laine for Anderson really helps anything... I don't love the Anderson contract obviously, but he has way less red flags. It's not like we need the cap space right away...

We will see but I get the feeling Columbus is not dealing from a position of strength... I doubt the demand is very high for Laine..

 

[26Mats]

No it isn't. That's how you end up never winning. At this stage of the rebuild you make an offer that works for your team. If that is not enough you move on. When you believe you can win a Cup you overpay for a player if you believe he is the missing piece.


Struble is expendable. Konyushov and Kapanen are more valuable than Struble. Barron is not waver fodder.

For sure you don't make an offer that isn't good for your team. But the price of a player is set by the market, not by what is fair, or past markets, etc...

 

[vokiel]

No it isn't. That's how you end up never winning. At this stage of the rebuild you make an offer that works for your team. If that is not enough you move on. When you believe you can win a Cup you overpay for a player if you believe he is the missing piece.


Struble is expendable. Konyushov and Kapanen are more valuable than Struble. Barron is not waver fodder.

Correct, therefor a better offer. Neither of them are critical pieces in our pool also.

We can make some sacrifices here.

That said if Columbus doesn't want to take back some contracts, you have nothing to stress over.

 

[BLONG7]

I did some reading -- Laine had statements 'against' former coaches Larsen and Torts both. It was absolutely miniscule but you know how it is in hockey circles, any statement that's not 100% innocuous is a sign of "off-ice problems" or bad character or as you say a 'bad culture fit'.

Very interesting.............good info.
Hard to know if the kid could be happy in Montreal??

I guess if Dach misses an entire season again, Newhook misses 35% of the season again, Slafkovsky stagnates at 50 points, Caufield shoots historically low again, Hutson has no impact on our PP, Guhle/Xhekaj/Barron/Struble/Harris make no improvements defensively and Roy produces like a green rookie.

Throw in the 1 goal games...............
We will be better, for sure, but honestly it would be nice to see a hockey trade for a guy who could fit in the top 6 nicely.
Keep Andy and Gally in the bottom 6

 

[Rapala]

Look at him, he's playing with puppies and shit. I think he'll be alright for a couple of seasons. Caufield can keep him out of depression for most of it.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817282061868417253

Playing with puppies is a good thing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Throw in the 1 goal games...............
We will be better, for sure, but honestly it would be nice to see a hockey trade for a guy who could fit in the top 6 nicely.
Keep Andy and Gally in the bottom 6

We should be better. Obviously injuries will happen as they always do but the kinds of injuries we’ve seen in recent years is crazy. If we’re relatively healthy though, we’ll improve. A bottom five finish wouldn’t have happened last year if we had Dach the full season and we’re adding Hutson. Cc will be a little healthier too. I think our scoring goes up and our defensive numbers get worse. We’ll see improvement but miss the postseason.

Hugo has said he wants to shore up the top six. I suspect he’ll make some kind of move. Unless Columbus is giving away Laine though I don’t see him offering up much.

 

[DAChampion]

Konyushov and Kapanen are more valuable than Struble.

If the team's 5th best defense and 5th best forward prospects can help swing a potential first line forward, you do it.