HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Boss Man Hughes]

We have Joshua Roy. We don’t need Laine, or McGroarty, or Zegras, or Necas, or any other stinkin’ forward. We can’t disturb Joshua Roy’s path to greatness. He could maybe one day if the stars align get over 50 points.

This is how good teams operate, after all.

That is exactly how smart teams operate. They draft and acquire good young players, develop them and are patient and pick the right time to go for it. They add the right players at the right cost as they go and when they believe they are ready spend to add missing pieces. McGoarty, Zegras and necas would be good acquisitions but only at the right cost.

 

[sampollock]

As I said, we already have what Laine gives us. And he's not going to give us 40 goals.

ok I may expecting too much...30 goals are there
habs need scoring.he can help

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I’m using your logic regarding playing 82. If there is no reason Dach can despite his past, why can’t Laine? You can’t have it both ways.

I said a second line of these 40ish point guys is nothing to get excited about. Sorry, but if that’s the Habs second line they are for sure a bottom five team. That’s not a second line on any cup contending team.

They are not trying to contend for the Cup this season and NOTHING they do will make them a contender this season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’m using your logic regarding playing 82. If there is no reason Dach can despite his past, why can’t Laine? You can’t have it both ways.

Dach is already in the lineup. We don't have to trade for him.

And as I said, if he goes down for an extended period then we can re-evaluate and make trades at that point. As highly as I think of Dach, we simply can't go another year with him sitting on the bench. It's a make or break for him. If he's healthy though.. 50+ points easy. More likelyy 60+.

If the argument is that we need to get somebody in case he goes down, then it makes absolutely no sense to get an injury prone player coming off shoulder surgery. Trade for somebody else if that's your line of thinking.

I said a second line of 40ish point guys is nothing to get excited about. Sorry, but if that’s the Habs second line they are for sure a bottom five team. That’s not a second line on any cup contending team.

At 82 games Dach's a lock for 50+. No doubt about it. More likely 60+. Similar for Newhook. 50 points for sure. The wildcard would be Roy. He's good for 40+ if he's consistently used there. That line has a lot of upside though. To call it garbage... I don't know what to say. You simply don't know what hockey's all about if that's what your thoughts are. When was the last time we had a second line close to being that good? It's a legit top six and next year Demidov will make it even better.

The risk is health. That will always be the wildcard. Obviously if somebody gets hurt is changes the numbers. But otherwise? It's a solid second line. At least 140-160 points cummutively. I'm not sure why you'd think that's garbage. It's just fine for a second line.

 

[Habby4Life]

They are not trying to contend for the Cup this season and NOTHING they do will make them a contender this season.

Yes, they are not contending for the cup. Didn’t say they were.

I’m saying that’s a weak second line and when they are ready to contend that better not be their second line. With the depth they have now they are once again a lottery pick, easily.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

ok I may expecting too much...30 goals are there
habs need scoring.he can help

As I said, if we can get him dirt cheap... say we offload Anderson? Sure. But I wouldn't pay much for him.

I just think the kind of player we need is a power forward type. I'd much rather pony up more to get that. It makes way more sense to build towards the future and a Matthew Knies type (I'm not suggesting we trade with the Leafs) would be amazing. THAT is where I'd try to go in terms of another forward.

 

[Habby4Life]

Dach is already in the lineup. We don't have to trade for him.

And as I said, if he goes down for an extended period then we can re-evaluate and make trades at that point. As highly as I think of Dach, we simply can't go another year with him sitting on the bench. It's a make or break for him. If he's healthy though.. 50+ points easy. More likelyy 60+.

If the argument is that we need to get somebody in case he goes down, then it makes absolutely no sense to get an injury prone player coming off shoulder surgery. Trade for somebody else if that's your line of thinking.

At 82 games Dach's a lock for 50+. No doubt about it. More likely 60+. Similar for Newhook. 50 points for sure. The wildcard would be Roy. He's good for 40+ if he's consistently used there. That line has a lot of upside though. To call it garbage... I don't know what to say. You simply don't know what hockey's all about if that's what your thoughts are. When was the last time we had a second line close to being that good? It's a legit top six and next year Demidov will make it even better.

The risk is health. That will always be the wildcard. Obviously if somebody gets hurt is changes the numbers. But otherwise? It's a solid second line. At least 140-160 points cummutively. I'm not sure why you'd think that's garbage. It's just fine for a second line.

Have to agree to disagree. IMO, that is a very average second line at best to put it mildly.

Regarding Laine, that too, have to agree to disagree. Totally undervalued on here.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Have to agree to disagree. IMO, that a very average second line at best to put it mildly.

What do you think a second line should produce? How many points do you expect them to generate? What does a second line look like to you?

Do you think that they can't get 140-160 cummutively if healthy over 82 on the same line? If so, how is that not in line with what a second line should look like?

Regarding Laine, that too, have to agree to disagree.

That's okay. He may well be a great pickup.

But I don't like the risks and I think we should go in another direction if we want to add to the forward group. Moreover, I don't know the cost. If it's a dump and they take back Anderson? Sure.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Laine make sense for Habs.

Hughes want goalscoring ability and bigger.

Laine is a goalscorer and he is big aswell. Only 26 years old, like Nichushkin before his signing with Colorado.

I can't see why they can't try 2 years (with retention) of Laine?!?! He can easily become 30g 60 pts (even more) in a good environment and good coach like MSL.

I'm 100% on acquiring Patrik Laine !

 

[le_sean]

By that logic, all players on all bad teams are bad players, and nobody should ever trade with a non-playoff team.

There’s lots of reasons why not to trade for Laine. But the fact he’s never made his teams better is just one of them.

 

[JianYang]

I don’t think it matters. The forwards are going to be good enough to get there as is.

Cc Suzuki Slaf
Newhook Dach Roy

That’s fine for a top six.

The D is why we’re not going to make the playoffs. We’re just way too green back there.

I’m of the mindset that we build organically. Give the ice you’d have given to Laine to Roy instead.

Top 6 is too dependant on health. There's not enough depth to handle injuries on the top 6.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Slaf - Suzuki - Caufield
Newhook - Dach - Laine

That's sound to me like a very good top 6 (if they stay healthy) to want to see Habs be better than a bottom 5 position.

Dach - Laine duo?!?! That's sound very good on paper to me with huge potential!

 

[Habby4Life]

There’s lots of reasons why not to trade for Laine. But the fact he’s never made his teams better is just one of them.

lol, when he scored 44, 30, 36 for the jets, he didn’t help make that team better, ok then.

Laine make sense for Habs.

Hughes want goalscoring ability and bigger.

Laine is a goalscorer and he is big aswell. Only 26 years old, like Nichushkin before his signing with Colorado.

I can't see why they can't try 2 years (with retention) of Laine?!?! He can easily become 30g 60 pts (even more) in a good environment and good coach like MSL.

I'm 100% on acquiring Patrik Laine !

It’s ludicrous to argue he wouldn’t make the habs better. Team is starving for talent, easily be one of their top 3 players.

 

[KevSkillz4]

lol, when he scored 40 for the jets, he didn’t help make that team better, ok then.


It’s ludicrous to argue he wouldn’t make the habs better. Team is starving for talent, easily be one of their top 3 players.

Yes. He can easily make Habs better. I just imagine a duo of Dach and Laine on the 2nd line... that's very very good!

 

[le_sean]

lol, when he scored 44, 30, 36 for the jets, he didn’t help make that team better, ok then.

We should just play Gallagher in the Top 6 then since he used to be a 30+ goal player. Same seasons Laine scored his goals. Why waste assets.

 

[Habby4Life]

Yes. He can easily make Habs better. I just imagine a duo of Dach and Laine on the 2nd line... that's very very good!

In fact, when Demidov comes over and is ready, CC can move to the second line with those two, then the habs have a real top 6.

Right now they have a top line and then some other decent parts, that’s it.

 

[DAChampion]

The discussion seems to have degenerated so I'll try and restore the argument to acquire Laine on firmer, more comprehensive grounds.

1) The Habs top six almost certainly needs to improve. A well-built team needs seven top-six players due to issues of roster balance and frequent injuries. In contrast, the Habs have at most six top-six players, that is if one is generous and assumes that Newhook and Roy are top six players. In Roy's case, he might be better off spending the year on the third line, and Newhook could be lost from the top six if one of Evans or Dvorak is injured.

2) The Habs in general need to improve. They have tanked three seasons in a row. Now is a good time to go up in the rankings a little bit as it is not yet the year where a lot of young players need spots (Demidov, Beck, Mesar, etc) so there's more room for experimentation this year. Laine won't make the Habs a contender this year, but he could make the team a bit better, thus yielding either a shot at the playoffs or at least better value from other vets traded at the deadline.

3) There aren't a lot of top six forwards obviously available. If Hughes acquires some other forward, that's fine too, we're discussing Laine because we know about him. The point is the Habs need another positive presence on the top six.

4) The cost for Laine is likely low. He has a higher cap hit which the Habs don't care about but other teams will. The Habs have plenty of picks and B prospects. And if Laine sucks he can leave in two years. It's fine. Whereas if he's good, he can extend and stay, that's even better. Laine would also not be taking ice time from deserving younger players, not this year, the only young forward expected to make the roster is Roy.

If another team overpays for Laine that does not undermine the argument to acquire Laine, as it is assumed that the Habs don't need to overpay.

5) Having Laine replace Caulfield on the 1st line may not obviously improve the team, but do consider the impact of having Caulfield replace Gallagher on the 2nd line. Adding top players has a cascading effect whereby you improve every lower line as other players get pushed down.

 

[Habby4Life]

We should just play Gallagher in the Top 6 then since he used to be a 30+ goal player. Same seasons Laine scored his goals. Why waste assets.

Hahaha, you stated he never made a team better, clearly you are wrong and my point went right over your head, lol

 

[vokiel]

There’s lots of reasons why not to trade for Laine. But the fact he’s never made his teams better is just one of them.

Neither did Dach, but that didn't stop them from giving a 13th overall now did it? And we're not even at that level of offer...

 

[Habby4Life]

The discussion seems to have degenerated so I'll try and restore the argument to acquire Laine on firmer, more comprehensive grounds.

1) The Habs top six almost certainly needs to improve. A well-built team needs seven top-six players due to issues of roster balance and frequent injuries. In contrast, the Habs have at most six top-six players, that is if one is generous and assumes that Newhook and Roy are top six players. In Roy's case, he might be better off spending the year on the third line, and Newhook could be lost from the top six if one of Evans or Dvorak is injured.

2) The Habs in general need to improve. They have tanked three seasons in a row. Now is a good time to go up in the rankings a little bit as it is not yet the year where a lot of young players need spots (Demidov, Beck, Mesar, etc) so there's more room for experimentation this year. Laine won't make the Habs a contender this year, but he could make the team a bit better, thus yielding either a shot at the playoffs or at least better value from other vets traded at the deadline.

3) There aren't a lot of top six forwards obviously available. If Hughes acquires some other forward, that's fine too, we're discussing Laine because we know about him. The point is the Habs need another positive presence on the top six.

4) The cost for Laine is likely low. He has a higher cap hit which the Habs don't care about but other teams will. The Habs have plenty of picks and B prospects. And if Laine sucks he can leave in two years. It's fine. Whereas if he's good, he can extend and stay, that's even better. Laine would also not be taking ice time from deserving younger players, not this year, the only young forward expected to make the roster is Roy.

If another team overpays for Laine that does not undermine the argument to acquire Laine, as it is assumed that the Habs don't need to overpay.

5) Having Laine replace Caulfield on the 1st line may not obviously improve the team, but do consider the impact of having Caulfield replace

#5 - 100%. A top 6 of Laine, Suzuki, Slaf, Dach, Demidov, CC in whatever combination that are used makes this team significant better. Roy, Newhook on the third line is now a team with depth and real lines.

Don’t see how anyone could be against adding PL with his age and contract status. Such a low risk with massive upside potential. He is 26, just entering his prime.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

lol, when he scored 44, 30, 36 for the jets, he didn’t help make that team better, ok then.


It’s ludicrous to argue he wouldn’t make the habs better. Team is starving for talent, easily be one of their top 3 players.

Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf are all better than Laine. Habs have a plethora of talent but some are a couple of years away from contributing. Adding a forward makes sense but only if the price is right.

 

[Habby4Life]

Suzuki, Caufield and Slaf are all better than Laine. Habs have a plethora of talent but some are a couple of years away from contributing. Adding a forward makes sense but only if the price is right.

Of course the price has to be right.

If the habs top 6 is Laine, Suzuki. Slaf, Dach, CC, Demidov they have a real top 6.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The discussion seems to have degenerated so I'll try and restore the argument to acquire Laine on firmer, more comprehensive grounds.

1) The Habs top six almost certainly needs to improve. A well-built team needs seven top-six players due to issues of roster balance and frequent injuries. In contrast, the Habs have at most six top-six players, that is if one is generous and assumes that Newhook and Roy are top six players. In Roy's case, he might be better off spending the year on the third line, and Newhook could be lost from the top six if one of Evans or Dvorak is injured.

Why does the top six need to improve? We are unlikely to make the playoffs with or without an addition there. Our green blueline will almost certainly ensure this.

What is the goal? Is it to sneak into 8th? Is it to build towards a cup winning team?

If you're saying the top six needs to improve to contend for a cup, that's true. But it will improve just by virtue of time. All those guys will be as good or better in three years and there will be additional players in the lineup. We won't be cup contenders now if we add someone or not. It's going to be a few years before we real contenders anyway.

So why the need for a better top six? I don't see it. (Note: this is not the same thing as saying it can't be improved.)

2) The Habs in general need to improve. They have tanked three seasons in a row. Now is a good time to go up in the rankings a little bit as it is not yet the year where a lot of young players need spots (Demidov, Beck, Mesar, etc) so there's more room for experimentation this year. Laine won't make the Habs a contender this year, but he could make the team a bit better, thus yielding either a shot at the playoffs or at least better value from other vets traded at the deadline.

We will very likely go up in the rankings regardless.

Again, we will improve just by virtue of time.

3) There aren't a lot of top six forwards obviously available. If Hughes acquires some other forward, that's fine too, we're discussing Laine because we know about him. The point is the Habs need another positive presence on the top six.

Do we? I don't really think so. Again, it depends on your objective.

4) The cost for Laine is likely low. He has a higher cap hit which the Habs don't care about but other teams will. The Habs have plenty of picks and B prospects. And if Laine sucks he can leave in two years. It's fine. Whereas if he's good, he can extend and stay, that's even better. Laine would also not be taking ice time from deserving younger players, not this year, the only young forward expected to make the roster is Roy.

And he'd be taking ice from Roy. That's just a fact.

Does that help us? How? I'd rather we invest in Roy than invest in a player who probably won't be here in two years anyway.

5) Having Laine replace Caulfield on the 1st line may not obviously improve the team, but do consider the impact of having Caulfield replace Gallagher on the 2nd line. Adding top players has a cascading effect whereby you improve every lower line as other players get pushed down.

They might want to put CC with Dach anyway. That might be a better fit and you'd get a better balance. Roy or Newhook moves up and you've still got two solid lines. Demidov comes in next year and Newhook or Roy move down.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hutson is pretty clearly a better offensive talent than Matheson.

And Ribeiro was better than Koivu and Beaulieu was better than Emelin, and Andrighetto was as good as P:acioretty.

Caufield hasn't proven to be a better goalscorer than Laine. Laine also has a better 1-timer, so it makes more sense to put him on the half wall.

Caufield has absolutely proven he is a better scorer than Laine recently.

Laine has had more total seasons and some high scoring ones in the past, but he has regressed a lot since his first two seasons, when he was 18 and 19. His last 30 goal season was age 20, and he just turned 26.

So far in his career starting 2020-21, Caufield has 81 goals in 205 games = 0.40 gpg

In the same period, Laine has 66 goals in 175 games = 0.38 gpg

How is Laine clearly better?

 

[The Great Weal]

We have Joshua Roy. We don’t need Laine, or McGroarty, or Zegras, or Necas, or any other stinkin’ forward. We can’t disturb Joshua Roy’s path to greatness. He could maybe one day if the stars align get over 50 points.

This is how good teams operate, after all.

Not sure why you think it'd be optimistic for Roy to get 50 points in a season in his career. He's a damn good prospect. I also don't understand why you think McGroarty would have much more offensive upside given that he's not even an NHLer.