HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[ReHabs]

You keep wanting quick fixes for short term gains. It’s not the right way to do things.

Silly comment. Care to validate it?

Even if he doesn’t, we plug in a Gallagher or someone else. We’ve got two solid players on the second as is and we may put Caufield with Dach.

Yeah the great top6 worthy player Gallagher precludes the Habs from acquiring a player to bolster the attack in a low-risk manner. And if Gallagher gets hurt we can slot in the mighty Josh Anderson, right?
RHP after him. We have loads of depth just as long as they don’t need to be good hockey players.

Getting a Laine or something like that to fight for 8th place doesn’t make sense.

We are unlikely to make the playoffs this year. It’s a season for development. Accept it.

It’s the process and progress that matters. Not the end result. You think acquiring a top6 player gets in the way of progress, I think NOT acquiring a player to bolster our awful attack gets in the way of progress.

I don’t think playing dead rubber games from January to April is a good way to spend Suzuki’s prime but you live for the Tank so we disagree.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Silly comment. Care to validate it?

Nothing silly about it.

You have consistently argued that we should be worried because players aren't progressing fast enough. You were screaming the sky is falling throughout the Slaf thread for over a year. You have displayed zero patience with younger players. And patience is what's required in a rebuild.

If we miss the playoffs this year... so what? It doesn't matter. We're not expected to make it.

Yeah the great top6 worthy player Gallagher precludes the Habs from acquiring a player to bolster the attack in a low-risk manner. And if Gallagher gets hurt we can slot in the mighty Josh Anderson, right?
RHP after him. We have loads of depth just as long as they don’t need to be good hockey players.

If we were contenders then this would make sense. We're not.

We're a rebuilding club. This is a development season. Gallagher is a patchwork fix in case of injury. That's it.

It’s the process and progress that matters. Not the end result. You think acquiring a top6 player gets in the way of progress, I think NOT acquiring a player to bolster our awful attack gets in the way of progress.

Right... it's the process that matters.

The process is to grow the tearm organically and avoid quick fixes. Our attack is not going to be awful. We've got a solid top six that's only going to improve. But those guys need icetime.

What is the point of adding a player right now? We have Demidov, Hage, Beck all on the way. We don't need a quick fix. The goal is to win a cup, not squeak into 8th next year.

I don’t think playing dead rubber games from January to April is a good way to spend Suzuki’s prime but you live for the Tank so we disagree.

Either you don't get it or you're purposely trying to distort what's being said.

I don't "live for the tank" and I'm not trying to "tank" this year. I believe the team will improve this season. I see it as a key year for developing the prospects that will be make up our future core.

We're probably not a playoff team this year. You want us to rush towards 8th place. What does that get us? A couple of extra months of hockey for Suzuki? Who gives a f***?

The goal is to build a cup winning team. If/when we become contenders, then we can start looking at adding players. I don't see the need for it now.

 

[tazsub3]

Michkov was loaned to PHI on the condition he plays in the NHL. Demidov cannot be loaned because he's in his final year of his contract in Russia -- and I'm not sure what the timeframes or restrictions of player-led buyouts might be versus team-led buyouts but whatever happens, I hope he's released this summer.

Oh no , seems you as misinformed then I am …lol

 

[ReHabs]

Nothing silly about it.

You have consistently argued that we should be worried because players aren't progressing fast enough. You were screaming the sky is falling throughout the Slaf thread for over a year. You have displayed zero patience with younger players. And patience is what's required in a rebuild.

I've been sanguine and calm about the current off-season *because* they proved (1) they called it right with Slaf's trajectory and (2) they aren't allergic to high-octane talent (re: Demidov).

Wanting Slaf in the AHL did not come from a lack of patience -- I find it strange you cite my crusade but cite it wrong since you were so central to arguing with me about it. It was consistently about his optimal development not an impatience about the player. You might've missed it but I've been plenty calm about Mešar for instance. Your comment doesn't stick.

If we miss the playoffs this year... so what? It doesn't matter. We're not expected to make it.

If we were contenders then this would make sense. We're not.

Playing more meaningful games in the 82 game regular season is important enough. It is not binary "tanker" vs "contender" and going from one to the other isn't a flip of a switch. A sustainable and reliable approach to contender status WOULD involve consistent progress and a clear trajectory. At the very best we have 6 top6 players and that includes Joshua Roy who might not even make the team and the glass man Dach. A good top6 would have more options for the top6 than just the minimum. We have nobody in our system to replace any of our top6 should one go down.

We're a rebuilding club. This is a development season. Gallagher is a patchwork fix in case of injury. That's it.

Gallagher isn't a fix. It's like plugging a punctured tire with a wad of leaves. The other players in the top6 would both prefer to and benefit from playing with a better player -- especially in MSL's fluid attacking system that requires nimble thinking and nimble feet. I'm thinking about the rebuild and development.

Right... it's the process that matters.

The process is to grow the tearm organically and avoid quick fixes. Our attack is not going to be awful. We've got a solid top six that's only going to improve. But those guys need icetime.

Organically is a misused term and we've been over this -- you think the top6 is solid, I think you should raise your standards.

What is the point of adding a player right now? We have Demidov, Hage, Beck all on the way. We don't need a quick fix. The goal is to win a cup, not squeak into 8th next year.

None of those three are in the NHL. The current roster needs bolstering to reinforce the trajectory. Hage is at least two years away (likely at least three), Beck is not pencilled as a top6 player. You might as well say we should mortgage the family farm because we have magic beans planted.

Either you don't get it or you're purposely trying to distort what's being said.

I don't "live for the tank" and I'm not trying to "tank" this year. I believe the team will improve this season. I see it as a key year for developing the prospects that will be make up our future core.

We're probably not a playoff team this year. You want us to rush towards 8th place. What does that get us? A couple of extra months of hockey for Suzuki? Who gives a f***?

The goal is to build a cup winning team. If/when we become contenders, then we can start looking at adding players. I don't see the need for it now.

I think I get it fine -- you think we have a solid top6, I think we have a very bad top6. You seem to think there's a switch between "one of the worst, most incapable teams in the NHL" and "Cup contender" and I think it's a more gradual and iterative progression that requires constant improvement.

But I don't want to rush to 8th place and yet you keep saying I do. Why is that?

Oh no , seems you as misinformed then I am …lol

I don't know what legal and contractual mechanism was used to get Michkov out of his commitment with SKA and into the NHL ecosystem. He didn't unilaterally break his contract though, that's for sure. Do you know how it happened that PHI got to sign Michkov?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You don't know much about the Habs of the 70's do you? Shutt, Lafleur, Cournoyer, Lemaire, Larouche, Lapointe, Robinson and Savard to name a few but yeah...two unproven young players would make them eclipse 100 years of Habs offensive history....ok

And Habs of the 50's Geoffrion, Beliveau, Richard, Richard, Moore, Backstrom, Olmstead, Goyette, Provost.

 

[Tyson]

And Habs of the 50's Geoffrion, Beliveau, Richard, Richard, Moore, Backstrom, Olmstead, Goyette, Provost.

Don't forget the great Doug Harvey!

 

[tazsub3]

I've been sanguine and calm about the current off-season *because* they proved (1) they called it right with Slaf's trajectory and (2) they aren't allergic to high-octane talent (re: Demidov).

Wanting Slaf in the AHL did not come from a lack of patience -- I find it strange you cite my crusade but cite it wrong since you were so central to arguing with me about it. It was consistently about his optimal development not an impatience about the player. You might've missed it but I've been plenty calm about Mešar for instance. Your comment doesn't stick.

Playing more meaningful games in the 82 game regular season is important enough. It is not binary "tanker" vs "contender" and going from one to the other isn't a flip of a switch. A sustainable and reliable approach to contender status WOULD involve consistent progress and a clear trajectory. At the very best we have 6 top6 players and that includes Joshua Roy who might not even make the team and the glass man Dach. A good top6 would have more options for the top6 than just the minimum. We have nobody in our system to replace any of our top6 should one go down.

Gallagher isn't a fix. It's like plugging a punctured tire with a wad of leaves. The other players in the top6 would both prefer to and benefit from playing with a better player -- especially in MSL's fluid attacking system that requires nimble thinking and nimble feet. I'm thinking about the rebuild and development.

Organically is a misused term and we've been over this -- you think the top6 is solid, I think you should raise your standards.

None of those three are in the NHL. The current roster needs bolstering to reinforce the trajectory. Hage is at least two years away (likely at least three), Beck is not pencilled as a top6 player. You might as well say we should mortgage the family farm because we have magic beans planted.

I think I get it fine -- you think we have a solid top6, I think we have a very bad top6. You seem to think there's a switch between "one of the worst, most incapable teams in the NHL" and "Cup contender" and I think it's a more gradual and iterative progression that requires constant improvement.

But I don't want to rush to 8th place and yet you keep saying I do. Why is that?


I don't know what legal and contractual mechanism was used to get Michkov out of his commitment with SKA and into the NHL ecosystem. He didn't unilaterally break his contract though, that's for sure. Do you know how it happened that PHI got to sign Michkov?

nope I do not, though would have been funnier if I tell you they just could not stand him, and want to get rid of him asap

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I've been sanguine and calm about the current off-season *because* they proved (1) they called it right with Slaf's trajectory and (2) they aren't allergic to high-octane talent (re: Demidov).

Wanting Slaf in the AHL did not come from a lack of patience -- I find it strange you cite my crusade but cite it wrong since you were so central to arguing with me about it. It was consistently about his optimal development not an impatience about the player. You might've missed it but I've been plenty calm about Mešar for instance. Your comment doesn't stick.

It's not just Slaf.

Look at how you're sitting here saying we need a better top six. Ignoring the fact that we have young players coming onboard and dismissing the fact that they need time to develop. You're not dismissing Slaf now? Great. How about Roy? What's wrong with Newhook? Why can't we give them the same opportunity we gave Slaf?

Playing more meaningful games in the 82 game regular season is important enough. It is not binary "tanker" vs "contender" and going from one to the other isn't a flip of a switch. A sustainable and reliable approach to contender status WOULD involve consistent progress and a clear trajectory. At the very best we have 6 top6 players and that includes Joshua Roy who might not even make the team and the glass man Dach. A good top6 would have more options for the top6 than just the minimum. We have nobody in our system to replace any of our top6 should one go down.

Who cares? Why does this matter? We are a developing team, not a contender.

Those players are on the way.

In the meantime, the players in the top six are looking just fine. If one goes down we can use a bandaid.

Gallagher isn't a fix. It's like plugging a punctured tire with a wad of leaves. The other players in the top6 would both prefer to and benefit from playing with a better player -- especially in MSL's fluid attacking system that requires nimble thinking and nimble feet. I'm thinking about the rebuild and development.

He's a bandaid should we need one in a season that doesn't matter. Nobody is suggesting he's a long term solution for anything.

Long term we have Beck, Demidov and Hage coming in.

Organically is a misused term and we've been over this -- you think the top6 is solid, I think you should raise your standards.

The top six is solid right now.

And it's going to improve. Demidov's on the way and either Newhook or Roy will go to the third with Beck. We just need the patience to see it through.

None of those three are in the NHL. The current roster needs bolstering to reinforce the trajectory. Hage is at least two years away (likely at least three), Beck is not pencilled as a top6 player. You might as well say we should mortgage the family farm because we have magic beans planted.

"magic beans"

I think I get it fine -- you think we have a solid top6, I think we have a very bad top6. You seem to think there's a switch between "one of the worst, most incapable teams in the NHL" and "Cup contender" and I think it's a more gradual and iterative progression that requires constant improvement.

Not sure why you'd think it's a bad top six. Again though, we'll see.

But I don't want to rush to 8th place and yet you keep saying I do. Why is that?

Why are you putting urgency on this season? Why the need for another player RIGHT NOW?

Why can't you be patient and let things develop? That's a long term plan more likely to yield better results.

You and I have different objectives. You want a good season NOW. I want us to win a cup down the road. It's two different things and two different paths to get there. The team has painstakingly charted a path towards success and you write it off as 'magic beans.'

 

[Simarino]

I feel confident that Dach will show this year that he is/will be good enough to fit in as a 2nd line center on a competitive roster. As for Newhook and Roy, the jury is still out for me. These are both still young players with some runway left, and Newhook showed some strong promise late last year. However, projecting both Newhook and Roy to be bonafide competitive 2nd liners to me seems to be too optimistic at this point.

The good thing is we probably don't need both, or either, of them to make it into a Top 6 role as we build our competitive roster. We have Demidov, Hage and some other hopefuls that should be able to barge into the Top 6 to play with Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Caufield and Dach in time. That would push Newhook and Roy onto our 3rd line, where they may be better suited.

Newhook last year in 55games was on pace for 22G 28A 50 pts playing with mediocre player and at Center a position that is not optimal for him imo, its far from a reach to say he can be a second line player.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Don't forget the great Doug Harvey!

I didn't get to defensemen. Add Tommy Johnson.

 

[Tyson]

I didn't get to defensemen. Add Tommy Johnson.

My dad use to tell me stories about that team. He knew all of the players

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

At this rate we will have to see Armia in the top 6 again
I am thrilled to see a 25 points player with Dach

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Newhook last year in 55games was on pace for 22G 28A 50 pts playing with mediocre player and at Center a position that is not optimal for him imo, its far from a reach to say he can be a second line player.

Both Newhook and Dach are young players entering their prime. Some have said they're 'unproven'... fair enough. Injuries have prevented them from fulfilling their potential. But there's every reason to believe that they'd be solid 2nd liners over an 82 game season.

Roy is younger but brimming with potential. I don't get how people think that's not a good 2nd line.

 

[Trabdy2]

At this rate we will have to see Armia in the top 6 again
I am thrilled to see a 25 points player with Dach

I think it depends on which version of Armia shows up to training camp lol. He's so inconsistent, it's maddening.

If he starts out the same way as last year, he might be waived again.

But, if he plays the way he did to close out the last 20 games or so, I think it's likely he starts the season on the 2nd line with Dach and Newhook.

I'm not thrilled, in general, with having him in our lineup, but it's good we'll be moving on from his contract by the end of the year.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I think it depends on which version of Armia shows up to training camp lol. He's so inconsistent, it's maddening.

If he starts out the same way as last year, he might be waived again.

But, if he plays the way he did to close out the last 20 games or so, I think it's likely he starts the season on the 2nd line with Dach and Newhook.

I'm not thrilled, in general, with having him in our lineup, but it's good we'll be moving on from his contract by the end of the year.

Ngl i can't wait for the upcoming TDL , hopefully we will have 1-2 Barginbin players left in the lineup by that date.

 

[BLONG7]

At this rate we will have to see Armia in the top 6 again
I am thrilled to see a 25 points player with Dach

None of us, are thrilled to see Armia, Dvorak, Gally and Andy.....................that said, it's mid July and not mid October........let's see what happens over the next 2-3 months.
I know we are stuck with a couple but Armia and Dvorak could be gone in a trade hopefully.
Gally could get injured, and Gainey may take a walk with Andy so..........................

Trust the process...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Courtesy of The Athletic:



G though good, I wouldn’t qualify as “insane”, with high probability of repeatability (Evolving Hockey ranking GSAx)

View attachment 896382

If we're digging into the analytics, per Sportlogiq Montembault was top-5 in terms of games stolen (i.e. his GSAA in a game exceeded the win differential) and both Montembault and Primeau were top-10 in % of starts in which they stole a game.

Montembault and Primeau could be just as good (or even better) than they were than last season and still have fewer wins.

It realistic to expect a bigger "growth" curve from a very young roster relative to an older/more veteran roster.

U25 players have more room to grow than 30+ players.

We were yet again a top 5 team in man games lost. That's a big reason why our top forward ice time last year featured 3 guys whose level of play should've had them bottom 6.

Back in 2012, when MB took over, we went from a bottom 3 finish to division winner... Only external adds were bouillon, Armstrong & prust + rookies Gally & Galch.

Big difference was that we went from leading league in games lost to bottom tier/better than average health.

People underestimate what a big impact it has, especially on a roster that isn't contender-level depth.



Sure. Same as last year... But with greater expectations fairly resting on the shoulders of:
Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Dach, Newhook, Guhle, Xhekaj, Barron, Roy, Monty & Primeau.

Everyone of those players is quite reasonably expected to be better next season. Not all will, and injuries will possibly rear their ugly head... But as a core roster of U25 players, growth at the group level should absolutely be expected.

I suspect that is precisely what KH believes and why he is being sincere when he states that they expect to be better this coming season even as he hasn't made any external additions (& actually traded away a vet for a pick in moving Kovacevic).

I'm not sure I'd expect much more from Suzuki or Montembault, they're already performing about as well as I'd expect. But yeah, growth of young players (and graduation of prospects) is (and always has been) the way Montreal is going to shift from bottom dweller to contender. I just don't think next season is going to be the year where that shift happens. Given all the prospects recently turning pro/coming over to NA from the end of the season to now, it feels like 2025-2026 is the season where we will really start to see the internal growth.

 

[LaP]

Kent pulled 2 similar trades with Dach and Newhook though. These guys actually have top 6 potential as for Shaw, he was a bottom 9 energy player even back then. Unfortunately, Dach and Newhook are already plagued by injuries. I don't like the Newhook deal. It was massive overpayment. As for Dach, Kent wanted to make a splash as a rookie GM. Dach is better than Newhook and they didn't pay so much to get him. Kent's mistakes are now evident with Anderson and Allen, which he didn't trade when he had the chance. Again, he did pull the best deals in NHL history by getting 2 firsts for taking on Monahan. No GM has managed to pull this in recent times except for the Caps who got Pacces for free. Shedding Weber's contract for a useless player which is now the Stars problem just adds to Kent's success. That's why there might be some hope in turning this franchise around.

How is Newhook plagued by injuries. He played 81 games total in 21-22. He played 82 games in 2022-23. I mean he injured his ankle which is almost 100% of the time benign. I mean i had ankle sprain playing Tennis or hockey like 3 times in my life.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If we're digging into the analytics, per Sportlogiq Montembault was top-5 in terms of games stolen (i.e. his GSAA in a game exceeded the win differential) and both Montembault and Primeau were top-10 in % of starts in which they stole a game.

Montembault and Primeau could be just as good (or even better) than they were than last season and still have fewer wins.



I'm not sure I'd expect much more from Suzuki or Montembault, they're already performing about as well as I'd expect. But yeah, growth of young players (and graduation of prospects) is (and always has been) the way Montreal is going to shift from bottom dweller to contender. I just don't think next season is going to be the year where that shift happens. Given all the prospects recently turning pro/coming over to NA from the end of the season to now, it feels like 2025-2026 is the season where we will really start to see the internal growth.

Agree with you on goaltending. We probably drop there this year and part of that will be the green D.

Offensively, I think we progress. So many young players coming up and I can't believe we'll have the same kind of injuries. Losing Dach from almost game one was insane. Injuries will obviously happen but they shouldn't be that devastating to a team.

I think Hutson is going to make a big difference for us. A full year of Dach and Newhook. CC and Slaf have upside. Suzuki should be able to do what he did last year. I just don't see how we don't improve. There's just no way our scoring is as bad as it was last season.

 

[Miller Time]

If we're digging into the analytics, per Sportlogiq Montembault was top-5 in terms of games stolen (i.e. his GSAA in a game exceeded the win differential) and both Montembault and Primeau were top-10 in % of starts in which they stole a game.

Montembault and Primeau could be just as good (or even better) than they were than last season and still have fewer wins.

Sure. Now do Allen

The analytics game is a good rear view mirror lens, but I'm less convinced on their predictive value beyond the very obvious indicators.

Monty in particular will be an interesting one to watch this season. The jump to undisputed starter carries a different weight emotionally, how he handles will have a big impact, positive or negative, on his overall performance.

I'm not sure I'd expect much more from Suzuki or Montembault, they're already performing about as well as I'd expect.

Possible, though I'd say unlikely that either has hit their ceiling.

Age & development arc would suggest they are just starting to hit their peak as opposed to already reached it.

Add that both have shown a high degree of dedication to improving their respective game and that's another strong indicator of realistic growth potential.

But yeah, growth of young players (and graduation of prospects) is (and always has been) the way Montreal is going to shift from bottom dweller to contender. I just don't think next season is going to be the year where that shift happens. Given all the prospects recently turning pro/coming over to NA from the end of the season to now, it feels like 2025-2026 is the season where we will really start to see the internal growth.

I don't think contender is realistic for this group either... But there are other gates between bottom 5 & top 5...

I look at it as tiers, with each tier roughly split in 2... Creating about 6 gates:

Playoff outsiders (~21-32)
1- Bottom 1/2 are the tankers/virtually no playoff hope
2- Top 1/2 likely no POs but could sneak into WC spot

Playoff contenders (~11-20)
3- Bottom 1/2 are WC or miss PO
4- Top 1/2 are likely WC/PO locks

Cup contenders (~1-10)
5- Bottom 1/2 PO locks
6- Top 1/2 Cup favorites


In that context, I see us as sitting in gate 2 territory. With good health & development, could push into gate 3 this year... With the opposite, could fall back into gate 1.

By next fall, I'd see us firmly in 3-4 territory on internal progress alone. Higher if KH is able to pull the trigger on 1-2 pact additions.

Future is bright

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

How is Newhook plagued by injuries. He played 81 games total in 21-22. He played 82 games in 2022-23. I mean he injured his ankle which is almost 100% of the time benign. I mean i had ankle sprain playing Tennis or hockey like 3 times in my life.

I think Newhook can rebound, but Dach is questionable.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I don't think so. What does a second line look like for other teams? They aren't superstars. If you're expecting 80 points each then yeah... but that's not how it works.

I think Newhook and Dach should be good for somewhere around 50 points each if they're actually healthy. That's what they paced for before (Dach paced actually closer to 60) and I see no reason why they can't do it now. Roy's a bit of a wildcard because he's so young but I think our second line will be solid. He should be somewhere around 40.

It comes down to health. That's the one thing that can mess everything up.

If your most proven forward on your 2nd line is Newhook it isn’t just weak, but extremely weak. I’ve argued Suzuki would flirt with 90 points once we get a second line.

Our top 6 as it currently stands, sucks.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Sure. Now do Allen

The analytics game is a good rear view mirror lens, but I'm less convinced on their predictive value beyond the very obvious indicators.

Monty in particular will be an interesting one to watch this season. The jump to undisputed starter carries a different weight emotionally, how he handles will have a big impact, positive or negative, on his overall performance.


Possible, though I'd say unlikely that either has hit their ceiling.

Age & development arc would suggest they are just starting to hit their peak as opposed to already reached it.

Add that both have shown a high degree of dedication to improving their respective game and that's another strong indicator of realistic growth potential.


I don't think contender is realistic for this group either... But there are other gates between bottom 5 & top 5...

I look at it as tiers, with each tier roughly split in 2... Creating about 6 gates:

Playoff outsiders (~21-32)
1- Bottom 1/2 are the tankers/virtually no playoff hope
2- Top 1/2 likely no POs but could sneak into WC spot

Playoff contenders (~11-20)
3- Bottom 1/2 are WC or miss PO
4- Top 1/2 are likely WC/PO locks

Cup contenders (~1-10)
5- Bottom 1/2 PO locks
6- Top 1/2 Cup favorites


In that context, I see us as sitting in gate 2 territory. With good health & development, could push into gate 3 this year... With the opposite, could fall back into gate 1.

By next fall, I'd see us firmly in 3-4 territory on internal progress alone. Higher if KH is able to pull the trigger on 1-2 pact additions.

Future is bright

Allen actually "stole" pretty much every win he had as a Hab.

Analytics is very useful as a predictive tool, how useful it is is a different story (and which data is most useful). I don't need analytics to know that Montreal got amazing goaltending in a ridiculous number of their wins and that I'm not expecting that to be as good going forward.

And we have a lot of evidence that for the vast majority of players, their peak is hit at 24/25. At least offensively. Defensively is another story, but I'm not interested in setting exceptions of improvement on players that have already demonstrated they can be contributors on a contender. If Suzuki remains at the level of a 70-80 point two-way center and Montembault remains at the level of well above average platoon goalie, I will be more than satisfied. I want to see Caufield mesh his improved all around play from last season with his goal scoring from 2021 and 2022-2023. I also want to see health and growth from the other names mentioned who still have rawness to their game.

Assuming those "gates", I'd still comfortably have Montreal in gate 1. If for no other reason that I can't justify placing them ahead of any team in the East and would only put a couple of teams in the same tier.

Only Columbus finished behind Montreal and when it comes to young NHLers/prospects expected to graduate, they can go blow for blow with Montreal and then some, and have better veteran support. Of the teams who finished ahead of Montreal, there's a mix of teams who are further along with their rebuilds (Buffalo/Ottawa/Detroit/NJ), teams still firmly in the win now with a better established core, and the Flyers. Absent putting on rose coloured glasses, It wouldn't be a shock to see Montreal finish in "gate 2", but there are enough teams that I have ahead of Montreal that I'm not expecting it.

 

[LaP]

If your most proven forward on your 2nd line is Newhook it isn’t just weak, but extremely weak. I’ve argued Suzuki would flirt with 90 points once we get a second line.

Our top 6 as it currently stands, sucks.

Nobody argue that. It's weak 100%. We are rebuilding for god sake. People expect this team to be a cup contender after two year? We need to add at least 1 other solid 1st line player and maybe a 2nd line player too depending on what Caufield, Slaf, Dach, Newhook are doing next season. There's no denying that.

But all the guys people argue we should sign (Sprong, Patch, JVR, ...) are not that. The 1st line players would not have signed a short term deal with us. Do you sign Stamkos or Marchesseault to those deals (+5-10% for the taxes)? As for a trade the off season is not over yet and that's something you can do during the season anyway. I would be surprised if KH is not listening but you must be two to tango.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Nobody argue that. It's weak 100%. We are rebuilding for god sake. People expect this team to be a cup contender after two year? We need to add at least 1 other solid 1st line player and maybe a 2nd line player too depending on what Caufield, Slaf, Dach, Newhook are doing next season. There's no denying that.

But all the guys people argue we should sign (Sprong, Patch, JVR, ...) are not that. The 1st line players would not have signed a short term deal with us. Do you sign Stamkos or Marchesseault to those deals (+5-10% for the taxes)? As for a trade the off season is not over yet and that's something you can do during the season anyway. I would be surprised if KH is not listening but you must be two to tango.

No, stop with the bullshit strawman please. Some are denying reality and claiming the 2nd line is good. It isn’t, that was my only argument. Nowhere did I suggest we sign any of those bums.