HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Andy]

I just can't see a single player available this UFA season that would improve this club in any tangible way. And I am really not into saddling long term contracts into older players. Look at all the whining that came with all the other long term contracts with under performing players. It just doesn't make sense.

Like realistically speaking, the habs arent a bottom feeder because they have bad depth guys. They are a bottom feeder because they don't have top end depth at the forward and d positions. There was none of that available outside Stamkos.

 

[BLONG7]

July 2nd and panic has set in?? Season starts in October.
Entering year 3 of a rebuild which is moving in the right direction.

Habs did just avoid some disaster with signing crazy contracts ala other teams..............stay the course, and next season is important, but it's the following year we start moving and shaking.....

Being patient, and being habs fan just don't seem to mesh well...............I get it.
Still say there is a deal out there, that will reshape the top 6 on this team.

 

[Habssince89]

lll continue to say it, the people complaining about others complaining are the most toxic mfers

hard disagree. the perpetual whiners who flip flop so they can always be crying about something are the most toxic. they are the root cause of it all. Bad faith garbage year after year

 

[schwang26]

I just can't see a single player available this UFA season that would improve this club in any tangible way. And I am really not into saddling long term contracts into older players. Look at all the whining that came with all the other long term contracts with under performing players. It just doesn't make sense.

Like realistically speaking, the habs arent a bottom feeder because they have bad depth guys. They are a bottom feeder because they don't have top end depth at the forward and d positions. There was none of that available outside Stamkos.

And there’s no way in hell Stamkos was coming. It wasn’t the time to be pursuing free agents anyway

July 2nd and panic has set in?? Season starts in October.
Entering year 3 of a rebuild which is moving in the right direction.

Habs did just avoid some disaster with signing crazy contracts ala other teams..............stay the course, and next season is important, but it's the following year we start moving and shaking.....

Being patient, and being habs fan just don't seem to mesh well...............I get it.
Still say there is a deal out there, that will reshape the top 6 on this team.

Some people actually think that big name free agents would actually sign here. They won’t. Maybe if the Habs were contenders, but I just don’t see it happening. It’s very rare.

 

[morhilane]

I just can't see a single player available this UFA season that would improve this club in any tangible way. And I am really not into saddling long term contracts into older players. Look at all the whining that came with all the other long term contracts with under performing players. It just doesn't make sense.

Like realistically speaking, the habs arent a bottom feeder because they have bad depth guys. They are a bottom feeder because they don't have top end depth at the forward and d positions. There was none of that available outside Stamkos.

I'll argue that some of the RHD available would have helped the D squad especially with Savard probably leaving at the deadline (if not before, a few teams only have 4 Ds signed). But those contracts were so stupid that I'm thankful the Habs skipped...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Cheveldayoff (sp?) is notorious to letting things play out, he doesn’t have to move him right now and he won’t until he gets the offer he wants.


He’s going to slow play that one like he slow plays everything.

That is the Jets prerogative. If they don't like the offer, we move on. He has value but it's not as high as what I am seeing from some fans.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Sure, but not sure that’s an urgent/needs fixing NOW type of hole. I think they’ll explore the trade market to see if they can find a solution there, or they’ll continue to try to fill it internally by rotation.

Demidov coming over next season is already an “in-house” solution that is on the horizon.

Better to slow play this than to rush it, the answer might be from within.

I think it would have been premature to throw say…5 years at Marchesseault, only to find out soon after that Newhook/Roy/Demidov are more than capable.

Yeah, have to respectfully disagree here. I do think that given the uncertainty around Dach and how big the hole is, it's a now issue for me.

I don't want Demidov to have to come in as a savior for a basement team. I'd want him to come to improve a team that's already starting to climb. It seems so much more healthy for both club and player to me.

Constantly banking strictly on in-house improvements and sitting on millions is a little too Bergevin-esque for my liking. I don't like that look at all.

 

[417]

That is the Jets prerogative. If they don't like the offer, we move on. He has value but it's not as high as what I am seeing from some fans.

Oh agreed…a lot of it has to do with prospect envy.

 

[ReHabs]

Yeah, have to respectfully disagree here. I do think that given the uncertainty around Dach and how big the hole is, it's a now issue for me.

I don't want Demidov to have to come in as a savior for a basement team. I'd want him to come to improve a team that's already starting to climb. It seems so much more healthy for both club and player to me.

Constantly banking strictly on in-house improvements and sitting on millions is a little too Bergevin-esque for my liking. I don't like that look at all.

The fact they were willing and seeking to add tells me there are plans to do so

 

[gusfring]

Whatever if it’s Pinto or McGroupie, Habs will need to part with one of Mailloux or Xhekaj.

Not sure why people can't understand this. Other teams aren't giving top prospects for Barron or Harris.

 

[417]

Yeah, have to respectfully disagree here. I do think that given the uncertainty around Dach and how big the hole is, it's a now issue for me.

I don't want Demidov to have to come in as a savior for a basement team. I'd want him to come to improve a team that's already starting to climb. It seems so much more healthy for both club and player to me.

Constantly banking strictly on in-house improvements and sitting on millions is a little too Bergevin-esque for my liking. I don't like that look at all.

There was nothing on the market yesterday, not even Steven Stamkos, that would assure 100% that the Habs wouldn’t be a basement team next season.

The quickest way out of the basement for the Habs is twofold IMO.

1. Health
2. Internal progression

Everything that was available yesterday was more window dressing.

 

[Captain Mountain]

They made several disclaimers (which I, by the way, agree with), but they also talked a lot about climbing up the standings, liking the progress of the group and exploring every avenue to support that progress.

I'm gonna be generous and not mention how many times the word playoffs was uttered.

None of that indicates spending in free agency. And they've talked about competing for the playoffs, which every team in the East is trying to do.

How much is too much? I'm not proposing anything that would cripple our future cap structure.

What have you proposed? The point is that the further out you go, the harder it is to project. You don't know what would "cripple" Montreal's cap structure. Toronto didn't think Tavares taking a hometown discount would cripple their cap structure, but it did. People seem to forget how pre-Zito Florida got aggressive in Free Agency and shot themselves in the foot by doing so.

Its not like Montreal's not trying to add through Free Agency, but they're not going to make a bad deal because it makes fans feel better in July.

I'm not really sure how did you find a longing for Bergevin in what I wrote.

We have a gaping hole on Dach's wing, created by Anderson's decline and Monahan's departure. Is addressing it moving into Bergevin territory?

Would a bottom 6 player that can kill penalties, provide some grit and push Rafael Harvey-Pinard into #13 forward slot be acceptable during a rebuild, after 3 consecutive bottom 5 finishes, or would it be Bergevin territory again?

What's the plan for the next two years? Are we going to magically switch from a bottom 5 team next year, to a playoff team the year after. Because a lot of folks here seem to believe that is exactly what will happen. I have my doubts.

We don't know if Dach is a C going forward, or if he's a 2nd line center (or if he can stay healthy). But unless a guy like Marchessault was willing to sign for more at a lower term, then there wasn't a standout fit for Montreal out there who would be willing to come. And there are still options out there. Its July 2nd.

The plan is what it always has been. Build through the draft and acquire young guys with upside. Develop them and clear cap space. Identify the group you can build around and then work on filling the holes.

And FWIW, people assuming consistent decline from veterans aren't paying attention. Armia went from waived to having his 2nd best season in a Habs uniform.

Its on the guys on the roster playing up to a level that identifies the holes. One can argue that there's a gaping hole on Dach's wing, but its equally valid to argue that there's a gaping hole at center between Dach and Newhook. Or that Montreal needs an entire top-6 line. Its not unreasonable to put the horse before the cart.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

There was nothing on the market yesterday, not even Steven Stamkos, that would assure 100% that the Habs wouldn’t be a basement team next season.

The quickest way out of the basement for the Habs is twofold IMO.

1. Health
2. Internal progression

Everything that was available yesterday was more window dressing.

There's no 100 percent assurance for anything but at some point you have to try. You can't be the aspiring writer who spends his time in a cafe talking about writing a book but never shuts himself in a room to actually write a page of prose. This is the feeling I'm currently getting from management.

 

[417]

Yeah, have to respectfully disagree here. I do think that given the uncertainty around Dach and how big the hole is, it's a now issue for me.

I don't want Demidov to have to come in as a savior for a basement team. I'd want him to come to improve a team that's already starting to climb. It seems so much more healthy for both club and player to me.

Constantly banking strictly on in-house improvements and sitting on millions is a little too Bergevin-esque for my liking. I don't like that look at all.

Forgot to address this part of your post but they’re not sitting on millions.

They just handed out a 60M deal to a core player in Slafkovsky and they’re trying to lock down Guhle in a similar way.

That’s a way more efficient use of their millions they’re sitting on, than spending it on players who aren’t going to be core players and will just serve as mediocrity anchors for the next 3-5 years.

There's no 100 percent assurance for anything but at some point you have to try. You can't be the aspiring writer who spends his time in a cafe talking about writing a book but never shuts himself in a room to actually write a page of prose. This is the feeling I'm currently getting from management.

Sure but it has to be calculated…

The Preds made a bunch of moves yesterday that I’m 100% sure will end up being anchors.

But for where THEY are, it’s a calculated gamble.

Another thing you’re ignoring is that the interest has to be mutual.

The Habs were interested in Marchesseault but he wanted more term than the Habs were willing to offer.

When you’re a basement team, you have to massively overpay to attract players.

Is that a smart thing for this team to do, right now?

I say 100% nope

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Forgot to address this part of your post but they’re not sitting on millions.

They just handed out a 60M deal to a core player in Slafkovsky and they’re trying to lock down Guhle in a similar way.

That’s a way more efficient use of their millions they’re sitting on, than spending it on players who aren’t going to be core players and will just serve as mediocrity anchors for the next 3-5 years.

They have more than enough in free space, LTIR and money coming off the books next season to make improvements now. They're not strapped or tight for cash.

Regarding the mediocrity thing, then that question turns into: do you believe in the player? Which is entirely different than what I'm talking about. We know the Habs were interested in Kane and Marchessault so it's not like they're not seeing an issue either. But if you believe in the player, give him that 4th year if you have to. If he busts at some point, deal with it then like we've seen teams like the Kings and Rangers do among others.

 

[salbutera]

I expect the Habs to improve to 10th from the bottom. They'll benefit from a healthier roster, better performances from Slafkovsky and Caulfield, and no Jake Allen.

I think it's likely that we see one impact trade.

Perhaps they'll get a better power play coach.

I think Habs PP will move to top-10 w existing roster + Hutson assuming QB role shortly after start of season - putting them in playoff contention for last wildcard spot w usual suspects Det/Buf/Sens

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Long story short the essence of my essays since yesterday is this:

Expecting serious improvement (which should be the bare minimum this upcoming season, i.e. at least in the hunt for a playoff spot during the last stretch of the season) on 'health' and 'organic improvement' is begging to get smacked in the mouth and cry the blues later.

By all means if I end up wrong feel free to point and laugh. I'll eat my crow. But as things stand, I'm really confident that it's going to turn out badly.

 

[dauv]

HuGo are smoking crack if they think the club can be in the mix for a playoff spot with just natural progression.

They're going to get slapped in the face if that's the expectation. It's really not a good look that they think this.

I honestly don't think they are thinking playoffs as much as they are thinking we must see forward progression on most players individually and as a group. I think they expect to be far more competitive than they have been the past 2 years without expecting playoffs, and if they still finish bottom 10 because teams behind them took significant step forward then I think they are fine with that. I really think they plan for them will be making playoffs for the 2025 season and that's where you should see them will really start pushing and putting pressure on players.

This is a smart plan in my opnion, as it will give them an extra season to see what they have in their pipeline and on their roster and see what they need to go after to fill those holes.

Having said that, if by some chance, they perform well this season and are within striking distance of playoffs close the trade deadline, I would not be surprise that they would be very aggressive come TDL and move up the timeline to playoff 2024 instead of 2025.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Jaynki]

We are in a position where we can pay players both in terms of assets (many prospects, 2 1st, 2 2nd and 3rd), contract terms and cap space.

Its about waiting for the right player and the right deal. We are in the driver seat. There is no rush or urgency.

Making a bad deal today may entach a burden to the rebuild and make us lose a future great deal.

When it will be time to pounce, i have no doubt Hugo will do it, as they have shown so far.

Maybe we fight for a wild card spot and we do a Hronek-type of trade at the deadline ?

 

[417]

They have more than enough in free space, LTIR and money coming off the books next season to make improvements now. They're not strapped or tight for cash.

LTIR is funny money…the Habs would rather NOT have to use LTIR though and they’re 2 years away from no longer having too.

It’s not a question of being strapped for cash, it’s a question of appropriately spending money.

I been saying it all year but the Habs are eyeing 2025-26, they will not invest long term money in non-core players until that point.

If Marchesseault or Stamkos would have wanted to sign a 2 year term at big money to play in Montreal, they’d be Habs players right now.

But that money is not earmarked for temporary solutions.

Regarding the mediocrity thing, then that question turns into: do you believe in the player? Which is entirely different than what I'm talking about. We know the Habs were interested in Kane and Marchessault so it's not like they're not seeing an issue either. But if you believe in the player, give him that 4th year if you have to. If he busts at some point, deal with it then like we've seen teams like the Kings and Rangers do.

I don’t personally believe in Kane or Marchessault enough to offer more than 1-2 years, absolutely not.

They’re not single-handedly changing the fortunes of this team, so why would I invest long term money in players who aren’t core players?

To push the Habs into a situation where we’re challenging for one of the last playoff spots?

Meh, we can do that with who we have now…so what’s the point?

Do you really think this team is picking 5th this past year with even a reasonable amount of health?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

LTIR is funny money…the Habs would rather NOT have to use LTIR though and they’re 2 years away from no longer having too.

It’s not a question of being strapped for cash, it’s a question of appropriately spending money.

I been saying it all year but the Habs are eyeing 2025-26, they will not invest long term money in non-core players until that point.

If Marchesseault or Stamkos would have wanted to sign a 2 year term at big money to play in Montreal, they’d be Habs players right now.

But that money is not earmarked for temporary solutions.


I don’t personally believe in Kane or Marchessault enough to offer more than 1-2 years, absolutely not.

They’re not single-handedly changing the fortunes of this team, so why would I invest long term money in players who aren’t core players?

To push the Habs into a situation where we’re challenging for one of the last playoff spots?

Meh, we can do that with who we have now…so what’s the point?

Do you really think this team is picking 5th this past year with even a reasonable amount of health?

I don't think many if any players are single-handedly changing the fortunes of a team. It's about collective play and improving the roster.

And yes to your question. I think this team hovers around that spot even with reasonable health and they're definitely extremely low in the East. We don't exist in a vacuum. Teams like Columbus, Ottawa, Buffalo etc. will also be banking on 'health' and 'organic improvements' like every team in the league does. If you rely solely on that after years at bottom, like The Wolf says in Pulp Fiction, 'lf my help isn't needed, lots of luck gentlemen!'

 

[417]

I just can't see a single player available this UFA season that would improve this club in any tangible way. And I am really not into saddling long term contracts into older players. Look at all the whining that came with all the other long term contracts with under performing players. It just doesn't make sense.

Like realistically speaking, the habs arent a bottom feeder because they have bad depth guys. They are a bottom feeder because they don't have top end depth at the forward and d positions. There was none of that available outside Stamkos.

I’d add they were bottom feeder because they had crucial injuries to important players.

The only reason the Habs were picking 5th and say not 10th last year was because they couldn’t overcome injuries to guys like Dach, Newhook, Dvorak.

They spent the majority of their season with Jake Evan’s as the #2C lol .

This is main reason why we’re sitting here all gully today about having Ivan Demidov.

He’s essentially the Hockey Gods “my bad yo”

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I’d add they were bottom feeder because they had crucial injuries to important players.

The only reason the Habs were picking 5th and say not 10th last year was because they couldn’t overcome injuries to guys like Dach, Newhook, Dvorak.

They spent the majority of their season with Jake Evan’s as the #2C lol .

This is main reason why we’re sitting here all gully today about having Ivan Demidov.

He’s essentially the Hockey Gods “my bad yo”

Sure and maybe Ottawa does better if Pinto didn't gamble and Josh Norris doesn't get hurt. Maybe Columbus does better if Laine plays more than 18 games.

A lot of teams can do this.

 

[gusfring]

Sure and maybe Ottawa does better if Pinto didn't gamble and Josh Norris doesn't get hurt. Maybe Columbus does better if Laine plays more than 18 games.

A lot of teams can do this.

Hope isn't a strategy.

 

[417]

I don't think many if any players are single-handedly changing the fortunes of a team. It's about collective play and improving the roster

Well exactly, collective play…they need to see what they have collectively.

Just a season with a healthy core of Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Dach, Newhook, Matheson, Guhle.

Would go a long way to determine what this team needs.

.

And yes to your question. I think this team hovers around that spot even with reasonable health and they're definitely extremely low in the East. We don't exist in a vacuum. Teams like Columbus, Ottawa, Buffalo etc. will also be banking on 'health' and 'organic improvements' like every team in the league does. If you rely solely on that after years at bottom, like The Wolf says in Pulp Fiction, 'lf my help isn't needed, lots of luck gentlemen!'

Agree to disagree then, I look at teams like the Sens and Sabres you mentioned, and they’ve already been through the “organic improvements” stage and they still suck.

They’re at a different stage of their journey and IMO, neither is trending up and there’s way more concern over there, than over here.