HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[junyab]

Yeah I know what you mean. I went through the same dilemma when I married my wife. She was a good match for me. Though I had read some rumours that Jessica Alba's marriage was on the rocks. So it was a tough decision, but I decided to marry my wife. We've been happy ever since. While that damn Jessica Alba is still married.

The moral of my demented story. Passing on something in the present, that may be a good fit. Might not be a good idea, as no one truly knows what the future brings.

Would it change your mind of your wife had 2 previous divorces, likes scoring but hates cooking and constantly complains about your family? hehe

 

[Captain Mountain]

I've already made my thoughts on acquiring Laine known, but I've found another I wouldn't do it - Laine's AAV and how it handcuffs us from making other, and maybe better, additions.

What if a better $8-10mill forward becomes available, through trade, UFA, offer sheet, and we couldn't because we're tied to Laine for 2 years. Just because we can afford spending that extra cap space, it's still an asset to have.

This would all be dreams - but what if we were able to offer sheet Wyatt Johnston, trade for Barzal etc.

Yes, Laine is probably the best top 6F point getter available right now but it doesn't mean he'll stay being that player for 2 more years.

Just a thought.

When?

Even if Montreal were to trade for Laine with zero retention and no salary going the other way (which is unlikely), they'd still have around 7.5 mil in cap flexibility with LTIR to make room for another trade target. With salary going the other way another deal is possible.

If we're talking about next offseason, assuming a cap ceiling of 92 mil (which is realistic), Montreal would have around 23 mil of cap space and up to 10.5 mil in LTIR room with 14 guys signed, and with no must re-sign UFAs and the only notable RFAs being RHP, Harris, Struble and Primeau. That is more than enough space to acquire Laine AND acquire a better $8-10mill forward that likely wont be available at a price that makes any sort of sense for Montreal.

There are plenty of good reasons not to want Montreal to acquire Laine (even if I lean in favour assuming the cost is low), but a hypothetical better forward becoming available that Montreal would be able to afford regardless of whether they trade for Laine doesn't seem to be one of them.

By far the biggest appeal of trading for Laine now is that the contract isn't actually all that risky for Montreal, so if the acquisition cost is low outside of the contract (and Montreal has more prospects that they can reasonably give opportunities for), then gambling on pedigree and upside makes a whole lot of sense.

This doesn't even get into the possibility that Laine at 50% retention might be the kind of piece you'd need to acquire a guy like that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

When?

Even if Montreal were to trade for Laine with zero retention and no salary going the other way (which is unlikely), they'd still have around 7.5 mil in cap flexibility with LTIR to make room for another trade target. With salary going the other way another deal is possible.

If we're talking about next offseason, assuming a cap ceiling of 92 mil (which is realistic), Montreal would have around 23 mil of cap space and up to 10.5 mil in LTIR room with 14 guys signed, and with no must re-sign UFAs and the only notable RFAs being RHP, Harris, Struble and Primeau. That is more than enough space to acquire Laine AND acquire a better $8-10mill forward that likely wont be available at a price that makes any sort of sense for Montreal.

There are plenty of good reasons not to want Montreal to acquire Laine (even if I lean in favour assuming the cost is low), but a hypothetical better forward becoming available that Montreal would be able to afford regardless of whether they trade for Laine doesn't seem to be one of them.

By far the biggest appeal of trading for Laine now is that the contract isn't actually all that risky for Montreal, so if the acquisition cost is low outside of the contract (and Montreal has more prospects that they can reasonably give opportunities for), then gambling on pedigree and upside makes a whole lot of sense.

This doesn't even get into the possibility that Laine at 50% retention might be the kind of piece you'd need to acquire a guy like that.

Another angle I handn't thought of... what's Columbus' cap space situation like? If we were to take Laine and the full contract without them having to take back an Anderson - could we leverage that into them including a pick or a prospect? Basically, they pay us to take him. Unfortunately, the answer to that is probably - no. I don't think that works because Columbus appears to be rebuilding.

But it's interesting to think about. That's what we did with Monahan and maybe we can find another deal like that (not necessarily with Columbus.) We take on a short expensive contract and get a prospect/pick.

Even if we're not going to get a big player like Laine to shore up our forwards, we shouldn't just let that cap space stay idle. We need to take advantage of it.

 

[Habby4Life]

Dach and Laine let's go

I’d love it to happen but this org doesn’t make bold moves.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Another angle I handn't thought of... what's Columbus' cap space situation like? If we were to take Laine and the full contract without them having to take back an Anderson - could we leverage that into them including a pick or a prospect? Basically, they pay us to take him. Unfortunately, the answer to that is probably - no. I don't think that works because Columbus appears to be rebuilding.

But it's interesting to think about. That's what we did with Monahan and maybe we can find another deal like that (not necessarily with Columbus.) We take on a short expensive contract and get a prospect/pick.

Even if we're not going to get a big player like Laine to shore up our forwards, we shouldn't just let that cap space stay idle. We need to take advantage of it.

Columbus don't have any cap issues either. So I'm sure they'd prefer offloading the entirety of his money off their books but I would also bet that they'd be more than willing to retain if it improved the return.

In short, they don't particularly have a reason to pay to get rid of Laine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Columbus don't have any cap issues either. So I'm sure they'd prefer offloading the entirety of his money off their books but I would also bet that they'd be more than willing to retain if it improved the return.

In short, they don't particularly have a reason to pay to get rid of Laine.

Right.

But I wonder if we could do something like that with another club.

 

[Habby4Life]

Right.

But I wonder if we could do something like that with another club.

I’m sure they could, maybe a team needs to offload to get Laine.

Disappointing though, like this team needs another pick or so-so prospect.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Would it change your mind of your wife had 2 previous divorces, likes scoring but hates cooking and constantly complains about your family? hehe

lol best comeback ever!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’m sure they could, maybe a team needs to offload to get Laine.

Disappointing though, like this team needs another pick or so-so prospect.

Lane Hutson, Kirby Dach, Hage… all traded for as picks or prospects. Not everyone you trade for will work out but doing this will help you stockpile talent.

Because of this kind of strategy we now have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. It’s exactly the same kind of thing that Sam Pollock used to do.

I get it, you want us to make a flashy move like trading for Crosby. But what we’re doing has been hugely effective. We just need patience to see it through.

 

[Habby4Life]

Lane Hutson, Kirby Dach, Hage… all traded for as picks or prospects. Not everyone you trade for will work out but doing this will help you stockpile talent.

Because of this kind of strategy we now have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. It’s exactly the same kind of thing that Sam Pollock used to do.

I get it, you want us to make a flashy move like trading for Crosby. But what we’re doing has been hugely effective. We just need patience to see it through.

Flashy move, no, bold move yes.

Effective, hmmm, promising, we can call it effective when they are a contender. Stock piling talent is one thing, turning it into a contender is another.

Patience, 30 years of mediocrity is more than patient. At some point, KH will have to make one. Next year?, lol.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Flashy move, no, bold move yes.

We got rid of vets like Toffoli for a complete rebuild. It doesn’t get more bold than that.

Effective, hmmm, promising, we can call it effective when they are a contender.

No, we can say it’s effective now. Why? Because at minimum those players have a ton of value.

Even if you didn’t want to wait on a rebuild we know that tons of teams would pay through the nose to get those prospects .

Patience, 30 years of mediocrity is more than patient. At some point, KH will have to make one. Next year?, lol.

The reason we weren’t successful for 30 years was a lack of patience. It took us 25 years to get a top five pick and it happened with a one time lottery.

Let’s look at how we became successful in the first place. Sam Polloch was the first person to understand the power of the draft (the modern draft only really came into being from 67-70.) He immediately started trading for picks and prospects. By doing this he landed Lafleur, Dryden and a whole slew of other young players that would form the backbone of the best team ever assembled.

Teams are a lot smarter today and it’s not as easy to take advantage of other clubs but we’ve stockpiled pucks to a massive extent. Two firsts in 22, one in 23, two in 24 and two more next year. Plus we had two others that we leveraged into young players like Dach and Newhook.

And think about this for a second. It took us 25 years to get a top five pick under those old regimes (33 if you do t count the one time lottery.) since Hugo has taken over we’ve had three straight top fives including a number one.

It’s night and day how we’re building vs how we’ve done things.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Another angle I handn't thought of... what's Columbus' cap space situation like? If we were to take Laine and the full contract without them having to take back an Anderson - could we leverage that into them including a pick or a prospect? Basically, they pay us to take him. Unfortunately, the answer to that is probably - no. I don't think that works because Columbus appears to be rebuilding.

But it's interesting to think about. That's what we did with Monahan and maybe we can find another deal like that (not necessarily with Columbus.) We take on a short expensive contract and get a prospect/pick.

Even if we're not going to get a big player like Laine to shore up our forwards, we shouldn't just let that cap space stay idle. We need to take advantage of it.

They have 10.9 mil in cap space now (with only Sillinger to sign) and around 28 mil next offseason. It would be a real salary question, but my guess is that they wouldn't be interested in incentivizing teams to take Laine's contract. I also don't think they'd be interested in Anderson unless Montreal offered a serious incentive (and I don't think there's a real reason for Montreal to do so, just fans who want to dump an overpaid whipping boy from the roster).

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Flashy move, no, bold move yes.

Effective, hmmm, promising, we can call it effective when they are a contender. Stock piling talent is one thing, turning it into a contender is another.

Patience, 30 years of mediocrity is more than patient. At some point, KH will have to make one. Next year?, lol.

There is no point caring about the years before Hughes. I am just happy Habs have the best GM they have had since Sammy. He absolutely knows what he is doing. Whether it translate into a championship remains to be seen.

 

[Habby4Life]

We got rid of vets like Toffoli for a complete rebuild. It doesn’t get more bold than that.

No, we can say it’s effective now. Why? Because at minimum those players have a ton of value.

Even if you didn’t want to wait on a rebuild we know that tons of teams would pay through the nose to get those prospects .

The reason we weren’t successful for 30 years was a lack of patience. It took us 25 years to get a top five pick and it happened with a one time lottery.

Let’s look at how we became successful in the first place. Sam Polloch was the first person to understand the power of the draft (the modern draft only really came into being from 67-70.) He immediately started trading for picks and prospects. By doing this he landed Lafleur, Dryden and a whole slew of other young players that would form the backbone of the best team ever assembled.

Teams are a lot smarter today and it’s not as easy to take advantage of other clubs but we’ve stockpiled pucks to a massive extent. Two firsts in 22, one in 23, two in 24 and two more next year. Plus we had two others that we leveraged into young players like Dach and Newhook.

And think about this for a second. It took us 25 years to get a top five pick under those old regimes (33 if you do t count the one time lottery.) since Hugo has taken over we’ve had three straight top fives including a number one.

It’s night and day how we’re building vs how we’ve done things.

Getting rid of toffoli isn’t a bold move.

Acquiring assets he has been effective, building a contending team, can’t say, time will tell. Lots of teams acquire assets but fail to turn the corner.

I’m not off the rebuild by any means but it all can’t be done all thru drafting. Great they got Dach & Newhook but they need more than those two.

There is no point caring about the years before Hughes. I am just happy Habs have the best GM they have had since Sammy. He absolutely knows what he is doing. Whether it translate into a championship remains to be seen.

Serge was a pretty good GM. He made some real bad trades but he made some great ones and brought two cups.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

We got rid of vets like Toffoli for a complete rebuild. It doesn’t get more bold than that.

No, we can say it’s effective now. Why? Because at minimum those players have a ton of value.

Even if you didn’t want to wait on a rebuild we know that tons of teams would pay through the nose to get those prospects .

The reason we weren’t successful for 30 years was a lack of patience. It took us 25 years to get a top five pick and it happened with a one time lottery.

Let’s look at how we became successful in the first place. Sam Polloch was the first person to understand the power of the draft (the modern draft only really came into being from 67-70.) He immediately started trading for picks and prospects. By doing this he landed Lafleur, Dryden and a whole slew of other young players that would form the backbone of the best team ever assembled.

Teams are a lot smarter today and it’s not as easy to take advantage of other clubs but we’ve stockpiled pucks to a massive extent. Two firsts in 22, one in 23, two in 24 and two more next year. Plus we had two others that we leveraged into young players like Dach and Newhook.

And think about this for a second. It took us 25 years to get a top five pick under those old regimes (33 if you do t count the one time lottery.) since Hugo has taken over we’ve had three straight top fives including a number one.

It’s night and day how we’re building vs how we’ve done things.

I believe Pollock helped create the modern draft. In any event he campaigned to prevent draft picks from being traded. He could see that an incompetent GM could destroy a team for 10-15-20 years by bad trades. He then took advantage when they allowed picks to be traded.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Getting rid of toffoli isn’t a bold move.

You’re missing the point. He scrapped the whole team. Toffoli was a solid sniper and rather than trying to eek along, he made the decision to scrap everything. Yes it’s a bold move.

Acquiring assets he has been effective, building a contending team, can’t say, time will tell. Lots of teams acquire assets but fail to turn the corner.

Fair enough.

But can you honestly say with a straight face that we’re not in a better position going forward than we’ve been in a long time?

I’m not off the rebuild by any means but it all can’t be done thru drafting. Great they got Dach & Newhook but they need more than those two.

It hasn’t all been through drafting. It was via trades. Dach, Newhook, Barron, Hage, Mesar, Hutson… all those were trades.

Btw, Dryden, Lafleur and Robinson were all traded for as picks and prospects. Were they bold moves? Not at the time. But they became incredibly important down the road. Tremblay and Risebrough were traded for as picks as well. That’s how you get high value players. You draft them and develop them yourself. It’s way cheaper to do it that way than to try to get a developed player.

Serge was a pretty good GM. He made some real bad trades but he made some great ones and brought two cups.

Sure. But he didn’t restock the way Pollock did. He didn’t understand the value of top five picks. And no GM since has understood it either. That’s why the only homegrown HOF player we’ve had since Roy is Carey Price. And we only got him because we fluked out in a one time lottery.

Pollock got a ton of picks and prospects. Did they all pan out? No. But some paid off in spades. That’s what Hugo is trying to do now.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They have 10.9 mil in cap space now (with only Sillinger to sign) and around 28 mil next offseason. It would be a real salary question, but my guess is that they wouldn't be interested in incentivizing teams to take Laine's contract. I also don't think they'd be interested in Anderson unless Montreal offered a serious incentive (and I don't think there's a real reason for Montreal to do so, just fans who want to dump an overpaid whipping boy from the roster).

Yep we could do it. But likely with another partner.

 

[Habby4Life]

You’re missing the point. He scrapped the whole team. Toffoli was a solid sniper and rather than trying to eek along, he made the decision to scrap everything. Yes it’s a bold move.

Fair enough.

But can you honestly say with a straight face that we’re not in a better position going forward than we’ve been in a long time?

It hasn’t all been through drafting. It was via trades. Dach, Newhook, Barron, Hage, Mesar, Hutson… all those were trades.

Btw, Dryden, Lafleur and Robinson were all traded for as picks and prospects. Were they bold moves? Not at the time. But they became incredibly important down the road.

Sure. But he didn’t restock the way Pollock did. He didn’t understand the value of top five picks. And no GM since has understood it either. That’s why the only homegrown HOF player we’ve had since Roy is Carey Price. And we only got him because we fluked out in a one time lottery.

Pollock got a ton of picks and prospects. Did they all pan out? No. But some paid off in spades. That’s what Hugo is trying to do now.

Choosing to rebuild was easy, everyone knew it had to be done. That’s not bold. Are they in a better position, sure but they are still a lottery pick team. I’ll declare it a success when I start watching a competitive team. Until then phase 1 complete.

Bold move, is using those assets to acquire a nhl top talent. Mesar, Hage, Barron, Hutson isn’t that. Dach, maybe but they still don’t have enough skill up front.

Even KH admitted they need more scoring depth and nothing to date has been done. Going into next season with the same lineup is nothing to jump up for joy.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Choosing to rebuild was easy, everyone knew it had to be done. That’s not bold. Are they in a better position, sure but they are still a lottery pick team. I’ll declare it a success when I start watching a competitive team. Until then phase 1 complete.

Bold move, is using those assets to acquire a nhl top talent. Mesar, Hage, Barron, Hutson isn’t that. Dach, maybe but they still don’t have enough skill up front.

Even KH admitted they need more scoring depth and nothing to date has been done. Going into next season with the same lineup is nothing to jump up for joy.

Newhook, Hage, Hutson, Dach (injuries not withstanding) and possibly Barron ARE all top young talents.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Choosing to rebuild was easy, everyone knew it had to be done. That’s not bold. Are they in a better position, sure but they are still a lottery pick team. I’ll declare it a success when I start watching a competitive team. Until then phase 1 complete.

He scrapped the team. Went full on in rebuilding to the point of taking on bad contracts for picks. It doesn’t get more bold than that.

Bold move, is using those assets to acquire a nhl top talent. Mesar, Hage, Barron, Hutson isn’t that. Dach, maybe but they still don’t have enough skill up front.

You could’ve said the exact same thing about Lafleur, Robinson and Dryden. They were picks and prospects.

Huston could be a superstar. Dach had all the makings of a great two way center but injuries got in the way. There’s tons we don’t know about here. Most of these guys aren’t even on the team yet. And that doesn’t even include Slaf, Demidov and RB.

Even KH admitted they need more scoring depth and nothing to date has been done. Going into next season with the same lineup is nothing to jump up for joy.

It doesn’t matter.

He’s chosen a path that takes longer but is likely to yield better results. It’s bold to do it this way because he’s going to take arrows from people who want quick fixes.

We aren’t making the playoffs this year. Accept it. And we probably won’t make it even if we get another top six player. Laine won’t get us to the playoffs. Only way that happens is if the D and goalies overperform.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I believe Pollock helped create the modern draft. In any event he campaigned to prevent draft picks from being traded. He could see that an incompetent GM could destroy a team for 10-15-20 years by bad trades. He then took advantage when they allowed picks to be traded.

Pollock was ahead of his time. I’m thrilled to see Hugo taking a similar path. He’s unlikely to be as successful as Pollock was but it’s still the right way to do it. Pollock traded away Dick Duff for picks and prospects… one of them turned into Larry Robinson. That’s how you do it. Trade vets for picks and prospects and do it at volume. Stockpile and get as many as you can and some will pan out. We already seem to have hit the jackpot with Hutson for example.

Sidenote: I get it. I’m tired of not being in the playoffs. Tired of having weaker teams. But more than anything I’m tired of not seeing us win cups. THAT’s what really matters.

I’ll happily wait a couple years longer to do it the right way. Make sure we’re on track and slowly build into a contender. We have four or five players who could be our best forwards since Stephane Richer. That’s incredible considering how quickly it’s happened.

If we get a Laine or whatever that’s fine. I have no issue with shoring up scoring depth. But if we don’t I’m not really going to worry. I don’t think we’re in the playoff either way.

I just want my son to see a cup. It’s way past time for us to be among the best teams in the league. Once we get there, I think we’ll be there a long time. We’re not going to rely on one player to do it for us anymore and that’s a great thing. I’m only sorry Price couldn’t be a part of it.

 

[schwang26]

I’d love it to happen but this org doesn’t make bold moves.

Well. They did acquire Dach, Newhook, Suzuki, drafted Slaf instead of Wright, drafted Reinbacher instead of Michkov…
Anyway, why make a bold move when it’ll probably be a non playoff year? Teams that have finished no higher than 5th last for 3 years don’t typically make big trades during a rebuild. Isn’t next year supposed to be deep for free agents?
I’m very confident that Hughes knows what he’s doing.

 

[sampollock]

Pollock was ahead of his time. I’m thrilled to see Hugo taking a similar path. He’s unlikely to be as successful as Pollock was but it’s still the right way to do it. Pollock traded away Dick Duff for picks and prospects… one of them turned into Larry Robinson. That’s how you do it. Trade vets for picks and prospects and do it at volume. Stockpile and get as many as you can and some will pan out. We already seem to have hit the jackpot with Hutson for example.

Sidenote: I get it. I’m tired of not being in the playoffs. Tired of having weaker teams. But more than anything I’m tired of not seeing us win cups. THAT’s what really matters.

I’ll happily wait a couple years longer to do it the right way. Make sure we’re on track and slowly build into a contender. We have four or five players who could be our best forwards since Stephane Richer. That’s incredible considering how quickly it’s happened.

If we get a Laine or whatever that’s fine. I have no issue with shoring up scoring depth. But if we don’t I’m not really going to worry. I don’t think we’re in the playoff either way.

I just want my son to see a cup. It’s way past time for us to be among the best teams in the league. Once we get there, I think we’ll be there a long time. We’re not going to rely on one player to do it for us anymore and that’s a great thing. I’m only sorry Price couldn’t be a part of it.

Sam P was a legend.

KH is not Sam P , but he is doing ok
go get Laine

 

[Habby4Life]

Well. They did acquire Dach, Newhook, Suzuki, drafted Slaf instead of Wright, drafted Reinbacher instead of Michkov…
Anyway, why make a bold move when it’ll probably be a non playoff year? Teams that have finished no higher than 5th last for 3 years don’t typically make big trades during a rebuild. Isn’t next year supposed to be deep for free agents?
I’m very confident that Hughes knows what he’s doing.

#1 - they need to reward the core guys who are busting thier ass by getting them some help.

#2 - I’m not sure they are a playoff team next year, so should they sit pat again?

#3 - because we are in yr 4 of a rebuild and it’s time to play in some games that matter past November.

He scrapped the team. Went full on in rebuilding to the point of taking on bad contracts for picks. It doesn’t get more bold than that.

You could’ve said the exact same thing about Lafleur, Robinson and Dryden. They were picks and prospects.

Huston could be a superstar. Dach had all the makings of a great two way center but injuries got in the way. There’s tons we don’t know about here. Most of these guys aren’t even on the team yet. And that doesn’t even include Slaf, Demidov and RB.

It doesn’t matter.

He’s chosen a path that takes longer but is likely to yield better results. It’s bold to do it this way because he’s going to take arrows from people who want quick fixes.

We aren’t making the playoffs this year. Accept it. And we probably won’t make it even if we get another top six player. Laine won’t get us to the playoffs. Only way that happens is if the D and goalies overperform.

no matter who they add they won’t make the playoffs, never thought so. Even if everything goes right, they might get close, might.

Go get Laine!

 

[calder candidate]

I've already made my thoughts on acquiring Laine known, but I've found another I wouldn't do it - Laine's AAV and how it handcuffs us from making other, and maybe better, additions.

What if a better $8-10mill forward becomes available, through trade, UFA, offer sheet, and we couldn't because we're tied to Laine for 2 years. Just because we can afford spending that extra cap space, it's still an asset to have.

This would all be dreams - but what if we were able to offer sheet Wyatt Johnston, trade for Barzal etc.

Yes, Laine is probably the best top 6F point getter available right now but it doesn't mean he'll stay being that player for 2 more years.

Just a thought.

We have like 15M$ that will be free up at the end of the year Dvorak, Savard, Armia, Evans, Pezz plus some very replacement level player on top of having Price LTIR, I agree that it need to be considered, but 2 years and with our current situation I don’t really see how that will be a issue…