HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[Team_Spirit]

*Kovacevic* *Pearson*

We didn't fumble JLO boys get over it

 

[Tyson]

He sucked here and this team sucks.

Kovacevic has like 6 points.

Remember how brutal Dadonov was in Montreal? A top 6 player in Dallas

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Remember how brutal Dadonov was in Montreal? A top 6 player in Dallas

bro he had 20 points last season lmao

Literally the same production he had in Montreal , hes bad.

like people overrate Kovacevic. If you have Kovacevic in ur top 4 , ur def sucks

 

[Gravity]

Need an upgrade on Guhle seeing as how he'll never reach his potential since he spends half of each season at least injured.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Remember how brutal Dadonov was in Montreal? A top 6 player in Dallas

He's garbage. If he is in the top 6 the coach is a moron.

 

[yianik]

I prefer a 65 point player with positive plus-minus. The NHL has decided that this year they will award points to the teams that score the greater number of goals in each contest, and not to the team that is taller or heavier, or finishes more checks

It's good to be fast, it's good to be strong, it's good to be physical, it's good to have a potent shot, or great vision or ability to break up plays, BUT...... all of these things are ultimately measured by the ability to score more goals than the other team. They are just means to the end of winning, and not ends in themselves.

Lol. A team needs a bit of everything. Sure, I agree, whatever works. My thinking is a power forward type able to put up 50 points will make a line produce better than a 60 point finesse guy, given what our top 6 looks like.

 

[Habs Icing]

Is this a serious question?

Yes, playing with superior talent can allow a player to play a role that they otherwise wouldn't be able to handle effectively on a weaker team, without being carried.

Josh Anderson could go play a top line role next to MacKinnon & Rantanen and still be useless to us in the same role.


The inverse can also be true... A player could be stuck in a depth chart that depresses their role/usage on one team, and immediately step into a larger role once provided the opportunity.


In Kovacevic' case, he had ample opportunity to earn at top 4 role. We had/have the RD need. 2 year audition, 3rd most minutes on the team, Habs didn't see him as worth keeping... Best any team offered for him was a 4th.... That he's getting top 4 usage in NJ, while Pesce & Hughes are out with injuries, isn't a sign that he'd have been a top 4 opening night player for us.

Firstly, I didn't ask any questions.

Secondly, think about what you are saying. If the Devils are a better team than the Habs that means Kovacevic had stiffer competition. Competition that to date has not outpaced him. He has the most points and the highest +/- on that defence corps. And the 3rd most TOI. Either the Habs didn't know how to use him or their system is not conducive to defensemen. There's a third possibility but it's a highly unlikely one. Kovacevic improved immensely over the summer.

I'm not saying he was an undiscovered Bobby Orr when with the Habs. I'm saying over the summer management made a decision. They thought Hutson and Barron were ready so they unloaded Harris and Kovacevic. At the moment results tell me that the former two were not ready. They should have sent down Hutson and rotated Barron in and out of the lineup. That's the primary point I take from that.

The secondary point is that whatever defensive system (or concepts) MSL is implementing is not working. You just have to look at the team's horrible play in their own zone. They have 5 points and that's because the goalies stood on their heads in those three games.

And yes I know most fans don't agree with my take on Hutson. Defensively, he needs to play in the A. And Offensively he has 4 points 2 of which were secondary assists and all 4 came in the first 2 games. Word has gone out and the league is adapting to Hutson's jitterbuging. And very, very soon they'll pick up on the fact his backward skating is terrible and he compensates by skating forward and turning his back to most of the ice.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Lol. A team needs a bit of everything. Sure, I agree, whatever works. My thinking is a power forward type able to put up 50 points will make a line produce better than a 60 point finesse guy, given what our top 6 looks like.

Untestable hypothesis. Pure personal preference I think. Though you did originally say 45-50 points in which casze the ONLY was I want a 45 point guy on the second line is if he is prime Lehkonen or Danault-level defensively. A big guy not good defensively playing 2nd line minutes and putting up 45 points is n ot vberty helpful in my books.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I know most fans don't agree with my take on Hutson. Defensively, he needs to play in the A. And Offensively he has 4 points 2 of which were secondary assists and all 4 came in the first 2 games. Word has gone out and the league is adapting to Hutson's jitterbuging. And very, very soon they'll pick up on the fact his backward skating is terrible and he compensates by skating forward and turning his back to most of the ice.

Well, I am not surprised at all. Hutson is playing as I thought he would, pacing to 47 points and a -60. He would have been better off briefly in the AHL for anywhere from 30 to 60 games.

Hutson is nowhere near ready to replace Matheson yet. He is not producing more offensively, makes more gaffes and turnovers, is softer in his own zone and the skating is MILES behind Mike's. Lane is not even ready for a top-4 role yet. He will be, I think, but patience would have been better to give him time to address the things he needs to work on.

I have no issue with the Harris trade, in view of the massive potential upside in return. Kovacevic on the other hand may have ideally been superfluous, but considering the return, I would rather have him at WORST alternating with Savard in the 3rd pair.

Kova was moved because the club was gambling on Mailloux being ready and Savard holding his form. The gamble is not paying off so far. Even if you don't mind getting a mide-round pick for him, I think he might have fetched more at the TDL and rendered fair services for his cap hit until then.

 

[yianik]

Untestable hypothesis. Pure personal preference I think. Though you did originally say 45-50 points in which casze the ONLY was I want a 45 point guy on the second line is if he is prime Lehkonen or Danault-level defensively. A big guy not good defensively playing 2nd line minutes and putting up 45 points is n ot vberty helpful in my books.

In comparison to a 60 point finesse guy, I will take a 47.5 ( 45-50 ) bigger more physical player.

 

[vokiel]

We already have our pure finesse Marner type in Demidov. If we just stack those up in the same roster, we'll just be like the Leafs.

 

[the]

WTH? Why did we let Tanner Pearson go?? I’m so pissed. Fire Kent Snooze.

 

[Miller Time]

Firstly, I didn't ask any questions.

Might want to revisit the use of the word "so" at the start of a sentence.

Secondly, think about what you are saying. If the Devils are a better team than the Habs that means Kovacevic had stiffer competition.

Not necessarily.

Being a better team does not mean better depth at every position.

Regardless, the organization context also factors in, this isn't a video game.

Competition that to date has not outpaced him. He has the most points and the highest +/- on that defence corps. And the 3rd most TOI.

Yes, all with Pesce, a UFA RD addition, and Hughes, a highly regarded part of their future, injured. Kovacevic is a very nice depth piece to have, as he was with us... No debate there.

He also leads NJ in D PK time... NJs PK is worse than Mtls through this same sample size.

Either the Habs didn't know how to use him or their system is not conducive to defensemen. There's a third possibility but it's a highly unlikely one. Kovacevic improved immensely over the summer.

Habs used him 3rd most of all their dmen in his 2 years here... Injuries to better players opening up the door for him to play more than intended. Exactly like NJ.

So you think Kovacevic' play in these 7 games is a reflection of "immense improvement over the summer". Might want to rethink your understanding of athlete progression and development.

I'm not saying he was an undiscovered Bobby Orr when with the Habs. I'm saying over the summer management made a decision. They thought Hutson and Barron were ready so they unloaded Harris and Kovacevic.

You assume this. I don't think it's a well grounded assumption.

More plausible is that
- they anticipated that 1 or both of Strubble & Xhekaj were going to be better off in Montreal than Laval (accurate)
- did not want to expose Barron to waivers (I agree, some would disagree)
- anticipated 1 or both of Hutson & RB would push for an NHL spot (accurate)
- did not have certainty of trading Harris

Injuries to Guhle, Strubble, RB and now Barron, obviously open up room today, but on June 30th that wasn't the case and getting a return for him vs losing him to waivers was a sound decision.

Getting a 4th suggest that there was no market for him as anything more han a depth player.

Roster management is a numbers game. Keeping Kovacevic, a known entity whom they decided is not a piece they wanted to prioritize for the future, didn't work. That doesn't mean they didn't think he was a better today option than any of the young players they opted to keep room for. They aren't managing the roster with a "win now" focus.

At the moment results tell me that the former two were not ready. They should have sent down Hutson and rotated Barron in and out of the lineup. That's the primary point I take from that.

Hindsight is a wonderful drug. Future telling skill is better used at the lotto station.

You forget RB & Harris. I don't think there's a reasonable case to be made of benching Barron based on this small sample size. He's the new whipping boy, but overall his play warranted staying in the lineup. Guhle's injury is the issue, and while having Kovacevic to plug in would've been better than calling up Mailloux, waivers is an issue.

Hutson is where he should be.

The secondary point is that whatever defensive system (or concepts) MSL is implementing is not working. You just have to look at the team's horrible play in their own zone. They have 5 points and that's because the goalies stood on their heads in those three games.

There's another thread for that. Not interested rehasing this here.

And yes I know most fans don't agree with my take on Hutson. Defensively, he needs to play in the A. And Offensively he has 4 points 2 of which were secondary assists and all 4 came in the first 2 games. Word has gone out and the league is adapting to Hutson's jitterbuging. And very, very soon they'll pick up on the fact his backward skating is terrible and he compensates by skating forward and turning his back to most of the ice.

Also not really a thread for this. I disagree with your assessment, and think your dissection of his points is a perfect example of a terribly grounded take. Perhaps you didn't watch the games you're speaking about, because if you did

Now do Michkov and his ES & +/- stat lines (but beware the pitchforks, some with strong opinions may not be as delicate in their rebuttals lol)

 

[Sterling Archer]

Anyone saying Kovy is the reason Habs are losing need to be banned and have their fan status revoked immediately. Reminds me of when fans were crying for Roberge to be recalled to “right the ship.”

Bottom pairing D and forward’s do not impact whether a team wins or loses. If Kovy was a determining factor in any Habs win or loss, they’d be more f***ed than any team in Habs history.

 

[Miller Time]

Anyone saying Kovy is the reason Habs are losing need to be banned and have their fan status revoked immediately. Reminds me of when fans were crying for Roberge to be recalled to “right the ship.”

Bottom pairing D and forward’s do not impact whether a team wins or loses. If Kovy was a determining factor in any Habs win or loss, they’d be more f***ed than any team in Habs history.

What's fascinating is people not seeming to understand that acquiring a player like Kovacevic is easy to do.

The timing sucks. Had the Harris trade & RB injury happened earlier, they probably don't trade him and he'd be a helpful stop gap early in the season... But hindsight is hindsight. At the time, I didn't love the return (hoped a 3rd) but can't fault the reasoning.

Just wait till Evans gets traded to a contender at the deadline and goes on to win a cup as that teams 3C...

 

[vokiel]

What's fascinating is people not seeming to understand that acquiring a player like Kovacevic is easy to do.

The timing sucks. Had the Harris trade & RB injury happened earlier, they probably don't trade him and he'd be a helpful stop gap early in the season... But hindsight is hindsight. At the time, I didn't love the return (hoped a 3rd) but can't fault the reasoning.

Just wait till Evans gets traded to a contender at the deadline and goes on to win a cup as that teams 3C...

According to Berg trades are hard.

 

[Miller Time]

According to Berg trades are hard.

No doubt!

 

[Hacketts]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850228405171601815

 

[dinodebino]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850228405171601815

Poker tourney.

 

[vokiel]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850228405171601815

Does he play D?

 

[the]

I know Kessel was here to go to Playground but that was almost 2 weeks ago.

-Edit-

Guess he’s still here.

 

[Tyson]

bro he had 20 points last season lmao

Literally the same production he had in Montreal , hes bad.

like people overrate Kovacevic. If you have Kovacevic in ur top 4 , ur def sucks

They play him alot. I watch Dallas alot and he plays in all situations. Wow 20 points