HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024-25 Season

[Boss Man Hughes]

I don't see him that way, never have. He's more of a Phil Kessell/Mike Hoffman type of player. Ask yourself, what else does he contribute besides scoring goals? I am not diminishing his abilities in saying that but rather saying it like it is. He is a complimentary player but a good one.

He can pass and play adequate defensively but is he is never going to win a puck battle by overpowering the opponent. Needs to be on a line with at least one forward who can overpower players

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

no thanks from the Canucks yeah. EP has a slow start but he would most likely be our best forward instantly.

EP >> Caufield
Gally is a cap dump
Xhekaj is a #6 defenseman
CGY 1st adds value but again, not a top 10 pick most likely

EP is not greater than Caufield currently. he has been shit for awhile now.

 

[Deus ex machina]

Hence the reason the rebuild isn't going on for another 3 years. This team has decent players and prospects already and add to that the bulk of picks in this years draft and there is no need to let this drag on for 3-4 more years. Eventually some of the ton of picks and prospects we have will need to be turned into trade currency so why wait? Just because other teams/fanbases have endured 40 days and 40 nights of a rebuild, it doesn't mean we have to.

Gorton came from NY and their rebuild was a short one and yeah it didn't hurt having Panarin and Trouba and Fox wanting to be there but we might have similar luck. You mentioned Demidov and Hutson so we do have current talent and others on the way so a tweak here or there and we are in playoff contention.

And while were on it, just because we are a young team, it's no excuse for a team to be playing unstructured listless hockey. I believe it was you a few years back that made a great analogy about young players going to the AHL and learning to be good there and applying that to the NHL when they eventually made it. Forgive me for not remembering it correctly but at the time it gave me a smile to read it. What I am getting at is even though the current roster is inexperienced it isn't a reason for the coaching staff to make things worse with concepts they can't understand. Just keep it simple and allow them to grow.

A lot of fans and media thought they would trade picks and prospects for immediate help last summer and it didn't happen. I think they wanted to do it too but with no more flat cap and most bottom teams wanting to get better, there weren't that many opportunies to make it happen. Until very late in the summer with Laine.

So there's no guarantees for next summer either.

 

[HuGort]

I don't know how anyone can say with a straightface that Kovacevic would make this team better when they finished bottom 5 in back-to-back seasons WITH Kovacevic in the lineup.

• Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Kovacevic, Barron, Harris, Xhekaj, Edmundson,Wideman = bottom 5 finish in 2022
• Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Kovacevic, Barron, Harris, Xhekaj, Struble = bottom 5 finish in 2023

But somehow:
Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Kovacevic, Barron, Xhekaj, Struble, Hutson will be better than the previous 2 years?? It's the SAME damn d-core folks.

Kovacevic is not moving the needle.

Kovacevic playing 21 minutes with Devils. On their first pk unit.

 

[Runner77]

Hence the reason the rebuild isn't going on for another 3 years. This team has decent players and prospects already and add to that the bulk of picks in this years draft and there is no need to let this drag on for 3-4 more years. Eventually some of the ton of picks and prospects we have will need to be turned into trade currency so why wait? Just because other teams/fanbases have endured 40 days and 40 nights of a rebuild, it doesn't mean we have to.

Gorton came from NY and their rebuild was a short one and yeah it didn't hurt having Panarin and Trouba and Fox wanting to be there but we might have similar luck. You mentioned Demidov and Hutson so we do have current talent and others on the way so a tweak here or there and we are in playoff contention.

And while were on it, just because we are a young team, it's no excuse for a team to be playing unstructured listless hockey. I believe it was you a few years back that made a great analogy about young players going to the AHL and learning to be good there and applying that to the NHL when they eventually made it. Forgive me for not remembering it correctly but at the time it gave me a smile to read it. What I am getting at is even though the current roster is inexperienced it isn't a reason for the coaching staff to make things worse with concepts they can't understand. Just keep it simple and allow them to grow.

For me, they shouldn’t stop building and adding until they have so many legit centers that several of them have to play the wing. Just remember that they acquired Dach to play center and if he can’t fill that role on the top 6, they need to keep targeting centers (no one knows what Hage will be even if early returns are promising).

 

[Habitant#1]

Having watched the entire Canucks vs Nashville playoff series, Elias Pettersson is one of the softest playoff players I've ever seen.

He makes Cole Caufield look like a power forward.

 

[HabsCode]

EP is not greater than Caufield currently. he has been shit for awhile now.

Yes, its a slow start like I said, but it’s 12 games. The guy is coming off 102 and 89 points season, and has otherwise been around PPG trough out his career. But feel free to evaluate both players on a 12 games sample size.

 

[HabsCode]

Having watched the entire Canucks vs Nashville playoff series, Elias Pettersson is one of the softest playoff players I've ever seen.

He makes Cole Caufield look like a power forward.

Pettersson second worst season is better than Cole’s most productive season, and that is only because for his worst he played 26 games. I know we like to pump up our guys tire here, but can we have some objectivity and recognize that Pettersson has proven to be an elite talent, something Caufield as yet to fulled demonstrate over a season?

 

[OldCraig71]

For me, they shouldn’t stop building and adding until they have so many legit centers that several of them have to play the wing. Just remember that they acquired Dach to play center and if he can’t fill that role on the top 6, they need to keep targeting centers (no one knows what Hage will be even if early returns are promising).

Yes, I agree but it is also crucial that we add some veteran help at the position because playing center at the NHL level is a tough job and it wouldn't hurt to have a mentor with some of these kids, someone on a 1-2 year cap friendly deal that can be moved when need be. The loss of Monahan is really showing but I understand that the financial commitment required to keep him wasn't worth it.

 

[HuGort]

Pettersson second worst season is better than Cole’s most productive season, and that is only because for his worst he played 26 games. I know we like to pump up our guys tire here, but can we have some objectivity and recognize that Pettersson has proven to be an elite talent, something Caufield as yet to fulled demonstrate over a season?

First year Pettersson played with this big contract also

 

[Sorinth]

Bruins rebuilt 2005-2008 and were contending after. Penguins 2001-2006 and were contending after. Tampa was a bit unique but they weren’t ever rebuilding for longer then three years during the late 2000’s/early 2010’s. Chicago rebuilt 2005-2008. The only team I can think of that had any real success in the salary cap era, and somebody can correct me if I’m wrong, that spent more then 5 years rebuilding were the Oilers. And they got lucky winning a lottery with McDavid. Most teams that spend longer then that 3-5 year risk developing a losing culture like the Sabres. If you use the same logic our fans use that the 21/22 season doesn’t count as part of the rebuild on the teams I mentioned, you can argue some of those teams rebuild even faster then I mentioned.

Just for the record, I do consider 2021-2022 season as a rebuild one, Bergevin was fired and we decided to rebuild and started to sell at the deadline. The offseason of 21 when Bergevin was still here wasn't part of the rebuild years though.

I'm not sure I would consider the Bruins a rebuild, it's much more of a retool, they even made the playoffs one of those years. If that's the definition of a rebuild we must have already gone through 4-5 rebuilds already in the past 20 years.

For Chicago I would very much argue it begins before 2005 given that they picked 3rd OA in 04, and not sure why Edmonton is lucky for McDavid but Pittsburgh isn't for Crosby. But regardless, it's worth noting that we don't see this progressive improvement year to year like many are expecting to see from us. Chicago basically got worse and worse throughout the rebuild drafting 7th, then 3rd then 1st. Pittsburgh just stayed at the bottom throughout, with the rebuild ending after a 2nd OA pick. And then there are the yo-yo teams like Tampa, Colorado where they tank/rebuild for a few years, make the playoffs, then go back to drafting high again.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Just for the record, I do consider 2021-2022 season as a rebuild one, Bergevin was fired and we decided to rebuild and started to sell at the deadline. The offseason of 21 when Bergevin was still here wasn't part of the rebuild years though.

I'm not sure I would consider the Bruins a rebuild, it's much more of a retool, they even made the playoffs one of those years. If that's the definition of a rebuild we must have already gone through 4-5 rebuilds already in the past 20 years.

For Chicago I would very much argue it begins before 2005 given that they picked 3rd OA in 04, and not sure why Edmonton is lucky for McDavid but Pittsburgh isn't for Crosby. But regardless, it's worth noting that we don't see this progressive improvement year to year like many are expecting to see from us. Chicago basically got worse and worse throughout the rebuild drafting 7th, then 3rd then 1st. Pittsburgh just stayed at the bottom throughout, with the rebuild ending after a 2nd OA pick. And then there are the yo-yo teams like Tampa, Colorado where they tank/rebuild for a few years, make the playoffs, then go back to drafting high again.

It’s really hard to compare rebuilds because each team does them so different. I agree with you on Boston tho. Even tho they were bad for a few years, they traded Thornton for roster players and signed Chara which are the opposite of rebuild moves. So you have me there. In my personal opinion, if we’re going to compare how long a rebuild takes by comparing ourselves to teams like Tampa, Panthers, Colorado, etc, I think we have to move the clock back to the Bergevin era because those teams had management changes as well during their rebuild/retools. It’s convenient to say those teams took 5-10 years while we ignore that outside of some fluke Covid seasons success, our team has been complete garbage since 2017. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that if we didn’t benefit from the Covid playoffs or the Canadian division, that we would be projecting to miss the playoffs for an 8th straight season which is a long time.

 

[HabbyGuy]

I seen a few posts back from last night and this morning.

I’m starting to think it’d be a good idea a 1v1 swap Dach for Zegras.

I’m just think with Dach’s injury history. He’s getting a little of the rust off but I feel like he is just a boards down low player who doesn’t really use his size to his advantage as much as he should.

The team is needs offense and I feel better creativity up front.

I think this is a win of a deal.

Especially with Laine coming back creating a lot of fire power up front.

The rate it’s going to honestly don’t know if Dach makes to the end of his contract currently either dealt or hits market. Just my opinion. I’d like to take the chance on Zegras same term and see if we get offense or see where it goes after two years similar to Dach’s situation.

I think people have a hard time remembering how effective Dach can be, due to not being able to see him play all last season, and with him trying to shake off the rust in this one. It wasn't that long ago when a lot of posters around here thought Dach when he was healthy and playing, was about to usurp Suzuki as the 1C on this team and yet now think he's a bag of trash.

Dach, just like everything else about this team needs some more patience from this fanbase.

Just breathe people, it's not as dire as you think.

It's all apart of the process of a rebuild and dealing with some unfortunate setbacks.

I really wish Reinbacher never got injured, he would have been given a golden opportunity to get a ton of reps in on this D this season. I hate that he's missing out on this precious development time.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Would you trade Dach + pick for Zegras ? Or Dach + Newhook vs Zegras + pick ?

I wouldn't even consider it not even for a moment.

 

[Rapala]

I think people have a hard time remembering how effective Dach can be, due to not being able to see him play all last season, and with him trying to shake off the rust in this one. It wasn't that long ago when a lot of posters around here thought Dach was about to usurp Suzuki as the 1C on this team and yet now think he's a bag of trash.

Dach, just like everything else about this team needs some more patience from this fanbase.

Just breathe people, it's not as dire as you think.

It's all apart of the process of a rebuild and dealing with some unfortunate setbacks.

This is how effective Kirby Dach has been after 6 years in the league when we tally up his strengths and weaknesses including availability.
A career of 104 points in 226 games with a high of 38 points and a highest availability factor of 70 games played.
He scored 21 points in 22 games as a winger and then 17 points in 36 games as a center in his career year.

That's it until he does something more.
The little segment of play people like to refer to is just that a small sample on the back half of a meaningless season.
I said it at the time when people were ready to hand him the keys to the Kingdom he needs to show much more than that.
He's shown a high of 80 points potential on the wing and 40 points as a center providing he remains healthy.

Kirby Dach just like Patrik Laine is in the HIGH RISK category as is any player who is not available half the time over 5 plus years.
The reasons don't matter it's the trend that can't be ignored.

If you told me Kirby Dach would have 5 points in 14 games and be a -13 even with his year off I would have said you are crazy but here we are.
I'll admit he's looked very good at times but so far not nearly enough for long enough.

 

[Sterling Archer]

He’s be a solid pickup for the bottom 6.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1855268151459533293

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Having watched the entire Canucks vs Nashville playoff series, Elias Pettersson is one of the softest playoff players I've ever seen.

He makes Cole Caufield look like a power forward.

 

[Miller Time]

Farabee & Ristolainen could be interesting targets.

Both are likely available and would help address our secondary scoring & RD needs.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

What's Farrell's value at at this point ?

Like a conditional 7th ?

Would be nice to trade him for a similar aged prospect just to have some more depth on the team.

 

[Treb]

What's Farrell's value at at this point ?

Like a conditional 7th ?

Would be nice to trade him for a similar aged prospect just to have some more depth on the team.

Most likely a trade for another change of scenery prospect. Vincent doesn't seem done with Farrell though.

 

[HuGort]

Farabee & Ristolainen could be interesting targets.

Both are likely available and would help address our secondary scoring & RD needs.

Is Ristolainen any better than Kovacevic?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Is Ristolainen any better than Kovacevic?

He’s definitely more expensive!

 

[Tyson]

What's Farrell's value at at this point ?

Like a conditional 7th ?

Would be nice to trade him for a similar aged prospect just to have some more depth on the team.

Trade him for Tyler Boucher

 

[Miller Time]

Is Ristolainen any better than Kovacevic?

He has been through their respective careers.

But I'm not sure I see the relevance, Kovacevic is not on our roster.

 

[Rapala]

He isn't an NHL player. There is nothing wrong with that...he is still making loads of money playing a game he loves.


Hopefully Dobes doesn't look too rusty. Lindstrom is always steady

I think he'll be just as ready to go as Malcom Subban.