HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
76,008
46,376
I brought it up last year leading up to the draft. American college students will insist to get signed early and to slingshot themselves to UFA… or else they have the opportunity to bolt. It’s impressive they’ve found a way through it but it’s a shame we’ve already gotten bit by this with Hutson for instance. I figured Hughes would be more savvy but it doesn’t seem like he has any recourse.

I would reconsider how I view these prospects because it can really derail contract planning.
Won’t surprise me if in the next player agreement that we see owners remove the loophole allowing a year to be burnt off if they play a game in a season. The players won’t oppose it because it doesn’t affect them. Guys coming in the league don’t really have a say so it’s easy for the NHLPA to sacrifice them.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: themilosh

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
76,008
46,376
KK OS was just to piss off for Aho , literal child owner that got his ego broken because habs called him a broke boi who couldn't front pay up. Then got mad and asked to offer the moon to a 3rd center on a good day.
it was more than just a temper tantrum. They’re a smaller market team and it was a move designed to show the league not to go after their players.

Fortunately for us it’s backfired spectacularly. It could’ve easily been CC or Suzuki but their contracts weren’t the ones coming up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: the

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

Registered User
Apr 29, 2017
34,992
46,152
Somewhere on earth in a hospital
And his can be bought out for next to nothing. He still has a little mileage left before they cut bait on him or trade him for some other reclamation project. Dvorak walks after this year and the only thing he'll leave us with is an extra locker.

Of two bad deals we may have gotten the worse end of it. But then again we had the inferior GM of the three involved, so it worked out as well as it could have I suppose.


Both can play. They both play like shit though. Would you take Dvorak if someone offered him up? Why do you think anyone else would?
My god have you seen KK play this year or this playoff? He was on the 4th line and almost healthy scratch .You think Carolina deciding if they buy him back is not a red flag? He skates like Bambi literally.

Dvorak can play on the PK , defensively and hes decent on the dot. Dvorak is tradeable and could be worth something at this TDL if he stays healthy for a team looking for Depth at the Center in case of injuries. While KK can't even steal 550 year olds Jordan Stall center's position.


Id take Dvorak everytime over KK.
I still think we handled KK development terribly but hes 23 , clearly that OS was for a payback on AHO and turned horribly for Carolina.
 

Shred

Registered User
Nov 1, 2005
1,206
632
I wonder how much Montour's drop from 73 points last year to 33 points this year affected his value. Matheson just totaled 62 but could easily drop back down to about 40 next year. Seems like an obvious sell high candidate if selling high is a thing in the advanced stats era.
 

The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
Jan 15, 2015
53,489
67,312
And his can be bought out for next to nothing. He still has a little mileage left before they cut bait on him or trade him for some other reclamation project. Dvorak walks after this year and the only thing he'll leave us with is an extra locker.
I'd rather have an extra locker than deal with 800k of actual dead cap space for 12 years.

Also I wouldn't rule out Dvorak returning something at the deadline. No matter how vanilla, he can still be useful on the PK and is good on faceoffs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: L4br3cqu3

Ford Prefect

Registered User
Mar 2, 2002
1,013
179
Montreal
Visit site
My god have you seen KK play this year or this playoff? He was on the 4th line and almost healthy scratch .You think Carolina deciding if they buy him back is not a red flag? He skates like Bambi literally.

Dvorak can play on the PK , defensively and hes decent on the dot. Dvorak is tradeable and could be worth something at this TDL if he stays healthy for a team looking for Depth at the Center in case of injuries. While KK can't even steal 550 year olds Jordan Stall center's position.


Id take Dvorak everytime over KK.
I still think we handled KK development terribly but hes 23 , clearly that OS was for a payback on AHO and turned horribly for Carolina.
A few errors in your logic:

1. He was on the 4th line for a cup contender. Dvorak was on lines 3-4 on a team that was 5th worst in the NHL. It doesn't get better when you look at the center depth of each team.

2. If he stays healthy. Over the last three seasons he's played 56, 64 and 30 games played. Over the same span Kotkaniemi has had seasons of 66, 82 and 79 games.

3. Dvorak had 70 pts for a ppg of .47, while Kotkaniemi had 99 for a .44 ppg. I didn't tally the numbers, but if you equate to points/60 minutes, Kotkaniemi comes out ahead.

4. KK is 23 and could still round out his game. Dvorak is 28 and a finished product.

Yeah, you haven't sold me on anything yet. But then again, this like arguing is shit grosser than vomit.

I'd rather have an extra locker than deal with 800k of actual dead cap space for 12 years.

Also I wouldn't rule out Dvorak returning something at the deadline. No matter how vanilla, he can still be useful on the PK and is good on faceoffs.
What, a 6th rounder? I'd bet KK would return at least a 5th. With no retention. But you're right, the obligation ends at the end of the season. That counts for a lot. But the point wasn't arguing who's the better player. The original point was that Bergevin was dumber for trading a 1st and 2nd rounder for Dvorak than Waddell was for signing a 21-year old 3rd overall pick (even if that was a stretch) to what essentially became a 9-year $44,660,020.00 contract. All it cost him was a first rounder.

But once again, douche vs. turd sandwich.
 
Last edited:

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

Registered User
Apr 29, 2017
34,992
46,152
Somewhere on earth in a hospital
A few errors in your logic:

1. He was on the 4th line for a cup contender. Dvorak was on lines 3-4 on a team that was 5th worst in the NHL. It doesn't get better when you look at the center depth of each team.

2. If he stays healthy. Over the last three seasons he's played 56, 64 and 30 games played. Over the same span Kotkaniemi has had seasons of 66, 82 and 79 games.

3. Dvorak had 70 pts for a ppg of .47, while Kotkaniemi had 99 for a .44 ppg. I didn't tally the numbers, but if you equate to points/60 minutes, Kotkaniemi comes out ahead.

4. KK is 23 and could still round out his game. Dvorak is 28 and a finished product.

Yeah, you haven't sold me on anything yet. But then again, this like arguing is shit grosser than vomit.


What, a 6th rounder? I'd bet KK would return at least a 5th. With no retention.
lol being a playoff team doesnt mean ur a top team contender , they were not.

Using logic as being a bad team could also be said for players having a good season in a shit team. Dvorak missed half the season hard to tell what's gonna happen with him.

KK is 23 and goes nowhere , id rather have Dvorak my playoff team than KK. Saying Dvorak is washed is completely out of touch about hockey.
 

Ford Prefect

Registered User
Mar 2, 2002
1,013
179
Montreal
Visit site
lol being a playoff team doesnt mean ur a top team contender , they were not.

Using logic as being a bad team could also be said for players having a good season in a shit team. Dvorak missed half the season hard to tell what's gonna happen with him.

KK is 23 and goes nowhere , id rather have Dvorak my playoff team than KK. Saying Dvorak is washed is completely out of touch about hockey.
Statistically they had the 2nd best record in the Eastern Conference and the 2nd best goal differential. The teams that advanced past them were the President's Award winner and the Stanley Cup runner up last year (and favourite this year). That's not a cup contender? And you're suggesting I'm out of touch? You have no credibility.

Are you Dvorak's fricking agent or something?
 

HabsWhiteKnightLOL

Registered User
Apr 29, 2017
34,992
46,152
Somewhere on earth in a hospital
Statistically they had the 2nd best record in the Eastern Conference and the 2nd best goal differential. The teams that advanced past them were the President's Award winner and the Stanley Cup runner up last year (and favourite this year). That's not a cup contender? And you're suggesting I'm out of touch? You have no credibility.

Are you Dvorak's fricking agent or something?
Just a man that knew that Carolina was not it .


I don't like Dvorak but saying hes worse than KK his legit out of touch.


I mean some people thinks Matheson is a regular top def so yeah , who knows
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
76,008
46,376
Just a man that knew that Carolina was not it .


I don't like Dvorak but saying hes worse than KK his legit out of touch.


I mean some people thinks Matheson is a regular top def so yeah , who knows
I don't know if Dvorak is better than KK but his contract definitely is. At this point would you want either one? I don't think so.

There was a time for patience with KK. People in general are far too impatient with younger players and we're still seeing that on the forums now. But he's 23. He's been in the league a long time. I think what you see is what you get with him. I could obviously be wrong on that but I wouldn't want to add him to my roster.

You can argue that he wasn't well developed (and I think there's truth to that) but at the end of the day, he's been on a great team in Carolina and hasn't produced. If he's not going to produce there, when can you expect improvement? The reality is that he was a bad pick and we missed the boat on that one.

Fortunately it was his contract that was up and not Suzuki's. Otherwise we'd have walked away from that one as well and we'd be so much further behind than we are. Instead, they took a problem child off our hands. A blessing in disguise.
 

Whalers Fan

Go Habs!
Sep 24, 2012
4,102
3,873
Plymouth, MI
Be honest, who are knew about this McGroarty kid yesterday and who has seen him play at least 1 game of hockey? Or at the very least watched some youtube highlight of him lmao.
I have watched him a lot over the past several years. I am a NTDP season ticket holder, so watched him live for two years here in Plymouth. I am also a University of Michigan sports fan, so have watched several of his games there (especially during the NCAA and Big Ten tournaments). Finally, he's been a member of the USA U18 and U20 World Juniors teams.

Based on what I have seen, I would love it if the Habs could get McGroarty from the Jets. He would be a solid addition to the forward group, IMO. He's smart, can score, and isn't afraid to go in the dirty areas. Plus, he's been a leader with all the teams mentioned above.
 

yianik

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
10,731
6,182
Friedman said Boston and Montreal were in the mix for Dubois.
I find that odd. The reclamation projects Hughes went after before had issues of playing time, being allowed to play their game etc. There were no between the ears issues. PLD is the opposite. That guy has got something going on in a motivational, work ethic kind of way. My guess is he will have a good season, but he isn't someone you can count on and for $8.5M and a top 6 role, buddy better show up every shift.

Edit: And the risk would be too high. Hab fans appreciate effort and know when players are just ragging it. Imagine a Quebecois , 6 foot 2 25 year old highly talented C skating figure 8s for 45 seconds then going to the bench , all game ? It would be bad.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kimota and BLONG7

morhilane

Registered User
Feb 28, 2021
6,867
9,039
According to Friedman, Montreal is still in the mix for Necas. Carolina is looking to do a hockey trade and not a futures trade.

Friedman has zero contact in the Habs organization, tune him out for any Habs news unless it's to announce a done trade (since he's directly plugged at the NHL office for those).
 
  • Like
Reactions: MarkovsKnee

yianik

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
10,731
6,182
Won’t surprise me if in the next player agreement that we see owners remove the loophole allowing a year to be burnt off if they play a game in a season. The players won’t oppose it because it doesn’t affect them. Guys coming in the league don’t really have a say so it’s easy for the NHLPA to sacrifice them.
I could see the big market US teams, or Destination teams looking for that. They typically don't have to worry about kids not signing with them. Offering the 1 year contract burn helps get a kid to sign. My guess is it's been helpful for us, though I can't prove it obviously.
 

BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
20,886
9,249
I brought it up last year leading up to the draft. American college students will insist to get signed early and to slingshot themselves to UFA… or else they have the opportunity to bolt. It’s impressive they’ve found a way through it but it’s a shame we’ve already gotten bit by this with Hutson for instance. I figured Hughes would be more savvy but it doesn’t seem like he has any recourse.

I would reconsider how I view these prospects because it can really derail contract planning.
The one game season does not advance the UFA date, only the second contract, and offer sheets are not allowed in those cases, such as Sean Farrell (10.2c).
 

ReHabs

Registered User
Jan 18, 2022
7,246
11,030
The one game season does not advance the UFA date, only the second contract, and offer sheets are not allowed in those cases, such as Sean Farrell (10.2c).
Not sure about the UFA thing but the other 'benefits' the NCAA players enjoy come at the expense of the team. I'm all for player power and would prefer an open, European Soccer style free market with academies instead of restricted FAs and drafts... but that's neither here or there. The reality is such that the American Factor is a much more prominent problem than the so-called Russian factor.
 

yianik

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
10,731
6,182
Not sure about the UFA thing but the other 'benefits' the NCAA players enjoy come at the expense of the team. I'm all for player power and would prefer an open, European Soccer style free market with academies instead of restricted FAs and drafts... but that's neither here or there. The reality is such that the American Factor is a much more prominent problem than the so-called Russian factor.
That's insightful. Only time there is a so called Russian factor that I have seen is when a Russian kid is going to be a bottom 6/9 or AHL player. If a Russian is playing or expected to play top 6, he is staying/ coming over.

Americans always make me nervous until they sign, Russians never.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ReHabs

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
14,199
15,378
That's insightful. Only time there is a so called Russian factor that I have seen is when a Russian kid is going to be a bottom 6/9 or AHL player. If a Russian is playing or expected to play top 6, he is staying/ coming over.

Americans always make me nervous until they sign, Russians never.
Curious which American draft pick chosen by Habs refused to sign? I can only think of picks Habs didn’t / wouldn’t offer a contract to
 
  • Like
Reactions: jaffy27

ReHabs

Registered User
Jan 18, 2022
7,246
11,030
Curious which American draft pick chosen by Habs refused to sign? I can only think of picks Habs didn’t / wouldn’t offer a contract to
Being coerced to sign Hutson, Farrell, and others to end-of-season contracts which reduce their ELC years from 3 to 2 is a big part of the problem as I see it. I don't like ELC and RFA rules but American College players don't play by the same rules. See how Cutter Gauthier was furious at the Flyers for not signing him when he wanted? The Flyers did him dirty after with the media smear campaign but the problem was always Cutter wanting to get signed on his terms because he had leverage.

If I was a player agent I'd advise to maximise income and leverage as well tbf.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad