HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Laine dogs it though from time to time. Fans would turn against him hard here. Start good...end up bad


No, That's quite a gamble.

Who is it that you want at 8 to take chance like that?

It's not that I have someone specific in mind but let's just say Habs land Lindstrom or demidov at 5. Then at 7/8, they pick up a Iginla/Sennecke, etc. That would finish any need for another top piece. Defence is set. Goaltending is hopefully set with Fowler. They already have 5/6 pieces minimum in the top 6 going forward if you include the 5th pick. They have good depth prospect wise that could help fill out a future bottom 6 in Beck, Roy, xhekaj, etc.

The risk of being like the sharks in 2020 is there but the gamble is that or finishing the acquisition part the rebuild entirely right now

 

[Sasha Orlov]

The whole point is to to build around both Drai AND Suzuki IMO. Trading one for the other would be counter productive, we're not a truly better team by the end of the day that way.

Fair point, but let’s assume Dach recovers from glass bone paper skin syndrome and becomes a highly capable 2C

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Listen I'm completely bored and dcided to throw some chel trades out there, leave me alone lol

 

[Habs10Habs]

I wonder if there's any scenario where we could make a massive blockbuster trade with Columbus where they get something along the lines of 5th overall+Dvorak and we get back Kent Johnson and Laine.

I could see both Johnson and Laine being pieces that would intrigue Hughes and Columbus would grab 5th meaning they could potentially secure Demidov/Lindstrom and one of the top defensemen of the draft.

We know Hughes wants to accelerate the rebuild, and getting 2 proven NHLers at the expense of a pick that's probably 3+ years away from making an impact would help to do that.

Go big or go home. I personally like this idea. Under normal circumstances, I don't think CBJ would move Johnson. But with a new GM, I think this could be possible.

 

[Habs10Habs]

Fair point, but let’s assume Dach recovers from glass bone paper skin syndrome and becomes a highly capable 2C

In that case, moving Suzuki becomes less of a risk. Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

 

[417]

You should base your value on the same type of d-men. Tanev, Zadorov, Chiarot, McCabe. These are defensive players that are more likely to be traded for at the deadline. I expect Savard to be valued equal or higher then Matheson

Yes exactly, because 60pt 2 way Dmen who play 25 + mins a game and who have a salary at 4.8M, just aren't traded or available lol.

So i'll base my value on him as an outlier, because if the Habs were to make him available, he would be an outlier.

If Savard and Matheson were on the market, right now, I think Matheson's value would be higher...MUCH higher than it would be for Savard.

 

[Miller Time]

It's debatable who's the most useful player at this point. At least, Anderson can still skate and hit.

Johansson is a great skater, and not just North/South.

Much better 2-way player, transition player, and ability to cycle.

Anderson's size & hitting, and the false perception that it adds value, is the only reason we might be able to offload him.

The longer they keep him, the less costly it will be to get rid of him, if need be. There's really no rush.
Strubble is worth way more than a 3rd. Giving him up for that at this point would be bad. There's no problem with him starting the year in the AHL.

Your assuming his decline wont continue further. Unlike Gally, who at least has some hockey sense, as Anderson's physical strengths decline in his 30's, he won't be an NHLer if he can't skate or hit. One shoulder or knee injury away from that reality happening sooner than later.


It's not Strubble = 3rd. I explained that already.

At worst.
He's not washed up. It's not like he can't keep up the pace anymore.
If he can regain his confidence and scoring touch, he's a decent middle 6 player.

He's 30, and off 3 straight poor seasons, the last (& healthiest) being the worst.

It's one thing to hope he bounces back, but realistically, he looks headed to a Rene Bourque trajectory.

Feel like Struble is a pretty big sweetener, that is a NHL player on a ELC that won’t be due for a big raise… I don’t see Anderson value going lower and I don’t see the urgency of making cap space right now I would wait and with better play maybe you get someone at the TDL or maybe with only 2 years left maybe it is cheaper to move him.

I agree that Strubble is a very big sweetener... Where I disagree is in the risk of Anderson's value decreasing further. The wealth of youth D assets we have is teetering on the brink of logjam, buffering the risk of moving a Strubble or Harris or Barron.

I hope Anderson proves me wrong and figures out how to be effective in our system... I just don't see it.

The cap space now is not urgent. But freeing up another 5.5M for '25 & '26 summers, as Slaf & Guhle extensions kick in and the team is focused on being a playoff team, will significantly improve the flexibility KH has to add key pieces.

Waiting a year risks Anderson going from cap dump to immovable if injuries or further regression set in.

 

[schwang26]

I’d drive Suzuki and Caufield to the airport personally for Drai tbh

Neither of those players should be untouchable for a top 3 player

To be fair, youre seeing what Draisaitl can do on an offensively talented Oilers team with Mcdavid, compared to Suzuki on a rebuilding team with pretty much one line for quite a bit of his tenure. He hasn’t missed a game yet and he’s flirting with a ppg. Not so sure I’d be that quick to give him up in this case. Caulfield. Maybe.

 

[Deebs]

ya not sure why PLD keeps coming, just like the KK talk who cares

It's absolutely embarrassing. I guess the thought is if they say it enough, people will change their minds and think it's a good idea

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Yet GMs, CONSISTENTLY and HISTORICALLY, pay out of their ass for inferior and much less productive DMen at the trade deadline, every year.

If the Habs can manage to get a 1st + 4th + C level prospect from the Panthers for Ben Chiarot or if the Flames can manage to get a 2nd round pick + conditional 3rd + B level prospect, for CHris Tanev...

I'm pretty sure the Habs could do much more than just a late 1st rounder for a guy who helps a contender not only for the year they acquire him, but also for the next season at a very affordable cost in salary.

Yeah, i'm not advocating just getting rid of him like many have...he's not a throw-in for me.

But it's not like I wouldn't listen to offers and it's precisely because of how valuable I think he is, that I would.

GMs are usually hot after D who are either big/physical in front of the net, or D who play mistake free hockey given mistakes are magnified come playoff time. Examples of this would be Chiarot, Savard, Walker and Gavrikov in recent years who have gone for a first rounder + at the deadline. Matheson's defensive blunders are overstated around here, but he plays a riskier game which leads to turnovers that would scare a lot of contending teams off.

Two defense who were traded with term in recent years with term would be Ekholm and Alec Martinez. Ekholm was traded along with a 6th for a late first, 4th, Reid Schaffer and a cap dump in Barrie, while Martinez was traded for 2 seconds. Based on those returns I wouldn't expect much more than a late first if Matheson was traded.

 

[le_sean]

The whole point is to to build around both Drai AND Suzuki IMO. Trading one for the other would be counter productive, we're not a truly better team by the end of the day that way.

Yeah I’m not doing that trade even though it’s more than fair. You just win with guys like Suzuki. He’s our Barkov, Bergeron, etc. Great on PP1, great on PK1, good 5v5, matches up against anyone defensively. These centres that you can deploy in any situation and positively contribute in any situation are invaluable. On top of that he’s shown a tendency to improve even further when in the playoffs.

I like Draisaitl, but I do question how effective he’d be as the guy and the 1C.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

lol trading ur team for Draisailt .

 

[habsterr]

Anton Lundell upcoming RFA would love to get him for the right price, a solid 3rd line C on the Panthers.

 

[417]

GMs are usually hot after D who are either big/physical in front of the net, or D who play mistake free hockey given mistakes are magnified come playoff time. Examples of this would be Chiarot, Savard, Walker and Gavrikov in recent years who have gone for a first rounder + at the deadline. Matheson's defensive blunders are overstated around here, but he plays a riskier game which leads to turnovers that would scare a lot of contending teams off.

Yes they're usually after those, again, because that's typically the type of players who are available at the deadline.

Guys like Matheson aren't typically available at the deadline.

To suggest any of the players you subsequently listed would be more valuable than Matheson is quite the leap, at least IMO.

There's a misconception about him as a player though, so not shocking.

He's not the porous Dman most make him out to be.

Two defense who were traded with term in recent years with term would be Ekholm and Alec Martinez. Ekholm was traded along with a 6th for a late first, 4th, Reid Schaffer and a cap dump in Barrie, while Martinez was traded for 2 seconds. Based on those returns I wouldn't expect much more than a late first if Matheson was traded.

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and disagree but there's really no way of knowing.

There are variables that affected the return here of the players mentioned above.

Ekholm makes 6.25M a year, the oilers had to send Barrie just to make that work.

Once more…Matheson is at 4.875M…theres HUGE value in that alone, never mind just the qualities of the player.

 

[Saundies]

Yes they're usually after those, again, because that's typically the type of players who are available at the deadline.

Guys like Matheson aren't typically available at the deadline.

To suggest any of the players you subsequently listed would be more valuable than Matheson is quite the leap, at least IMO.

There's a misconception about him as a player though, so not shocking.

He's not the porous Dman most make him out to be.

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and disagree but there's really no way of knowing.

There are variables that affected the return here of the players mentioned above.

Ekholm makes 6.25M a year, the oilers had to send Barrie just to make that work.

Once more…Matheson is at 4.875M…theres HUGE value in that alone, never mind just the qualities of the player.

He is though...

I swear I wish I had access to film of all 82 Habs games and good editing software and I would literally make a video that is about an hour long of Mike Matheson either costing us goals, odd-man rushes, or A1 scoring chances. Just because some of them don't make it past Monty/Primeau doesn't mean Matheson didn't do something to lead to the chance happening.

The guy is Swiss Cheese defensively, and I don't know why you and others defend him so much in this regard. Does that mean he has NEGATIVE value? No. He brings a lot offensively. He's scored some amazing goals and helps push the offense up the ice. But the guy LEAKS goals against to an alarming degree. He is "making too many moves" personified as a hockey player.

Just because a coach chooses to play him 20-25 minutes a game and on the PK doesn't mean he deserves to be there. He's a vet, and that buys him clout with the coaching staff. If Hutson's on the team next year doing similar things, I will have the exact same criticisms about him and I guarantee Marty plays him 10-12 minutes a game because of it.

 

[le_sean]

Anton Lundell upcoming RFA would love to get him for the right price, a solid 3rd line C on the Panthers.

No shot of that happening. I think he’s shown them that he’s ready to take the mantle of 2C behind Barkov and they can either trade Bennett while he still has value or go for another run next year then let him walk.

 

[Captain Mountain]

He is though...

I swear I wish I had access to film of all 82 Habs games and good editing software and I would literally make a video that is about an hour long of Mike Matheson either costing us goals, odd-man rushes, or A1 scoring chances. Just because some of them don't make it past Monty/Primeau doesn't mean Matheson didn't do something to lead to the chance happening.

The guy is Swiss Cheese defensively, and I don't know why you and others defend him so much in this regard. Does that mean he has NEGATIVE value? No. He brings a lot offensively. He's scored some amazing goals and helps push the offense up the ice. But the guy LEAKS goals against to an alarming degree. He is "making too many moves" personified as a hockey player.

Just because a coach chooses to play him 20-25 minutes a game and on the PK doesn't mean he deserves to be there. He's a vet, and that buys him clout with the coaching staff. If Hutson's on the team next year doing similar things, I will have the exact same criticisms about him and I guarantee Marty plays him 10-12 minutes a game because of it.

I'd argue the bolded is a flaw both in evaluating players and recognizing the situation both Matheson and the Canadiens as a whole are in.

This isn't a new story with Matheson, its been known a while that he's less effective playing heavy first line minutes or in the insanely difficult minutes he plays. The reason he's around (and why he's less available than a Savard), is that Montreal doesn't have the guys who can play those minutes. And they want someone to play those minutes so they can develop their young D. He also doesn't give up goals and chances at an "alarming" degree (unless your expectations of what this team is is out of whack), but most D who play the minutes he does look like shit, even hyped young guys and big name players.

Like, Florida literally built an elite D group by identifying guys who had too much responsibility, were playing in an environment not conducive to their play or were being misused and acquiring them for cheap.

 

[417]

He is though...

And the players you mentioned weren't/aren't?

I swear I wish I had access to film of all 82 Habs games and good editing software and I would literally make a video that is about an hour long of Mike Matheson either costing us goals, odd-man rushes, or A1 scoring chances. Just because some of them don't make it past Monty/Primeau doesn't mean Matheson didn't do something to lead to the chance happening.

You don't have to show me film of all 82 Habs games, I watch the same games myself. I'm well aware of his shortcomings defensively.

I think any player who handles the puck as much as he does,, is going to be prone to making mistakes (it's going to be the same with Hutson folks) and his lapses defensively.

Is he playing too big of a role right now on a very young team/defense...yes, absolutely.

If you just want to focus on a single player as the sole source of goals that are against, that's easy to do, but most of the time, it's a collection of mistakes that lead to a goal against.

The guy is Swiss Cheese defensively, and I don't know why you and others defend him so much in this regard. Does that mean he has NEGATIVE value? No. He brings a lot offensively. He's scored some amazing goals and helps push the offense up the ice. But the guy LEAKS goals against to an alarming degree. He is "making too many moves" personified as a hockey player.

Well that's what i'm arguing, I don't need to defend him...he's not on trial here lol. I was strictly discussing his value, that IMO, is severely undersold around here.

Just because a coach chooses to play him 20-25 minutes a game and on the PK doesn't mean he deserves to be there. He's a vet, and that buys him clout with the coaching staff. If Hutson's on the team next year doing similar things, I will have the exact same criticisms about him and I guarantee Marty plays him 10-12 minutes a game because of it.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here, I never said that he deserves to be here.

I argued that he shouldn't be tossed aside as a "throw in" in trades for a simple draft pick.

Rate him or not, he's got tangible value in the NHL and IF the Habs choose to move him, or rather when. They'll recoup tremendous value whenever that time comes, because as i've argued, players like him don't get traded.

If the Habs hold on to him for another year, which is the likely scenario, and he backs that up with another 60pt season...you can forget all this talk about how he's solely responsible for a ton of goals, contending teams won't care because they'll insulate him in their lineup quite comfortably.

 

[Naslundforever]

Everyone ignores the bottom 6, especially the 4th line. These are the guys who get you through the playoffs. Forget about signing big names and probably trading for top 6. It’s probably not happening. They need to build a solid bottom 6. That’s what they should shore up. That takes a lot of pressure off of the top 6. No one is afraid of Evans or Dvorak or Pezzetta (even though I like Evan’s and Pezz)

hf = the land of “he doesn’t hurt the team and they have bigger problems so why you being hard on (player X).”

I miss real goons, real face off and special team specialists (the top 10 nhl types as specialists).

 

[Yoor]

Only way I would trade Matheson is if he landed a Necas type. If it happens, we manage it and hope guys like Hutson can fill the spot.

Do you think Matheson is with the Habs for more than 2 years? His next contract won't be cheap and it will be age 32+. Does he fade like Petry in his mid 30's or not? Difficult to know

What do we do in the next 2 years with Matheson on our roster? Does the transition of moving up the standings with him make our future playoff forecast better?

What it does it it allows time for players like Hutson to get to their full potential...yo can ruin young players if you throw them in the fire right away with way too many expectations. The 2 years if perfect imo provides enough time to see what we have and to let players develop with the mentoring of player such as Matheson. I never said we should keep him forever...i just dont think we can afford to get rid of him now it would just create another hole in the lineup with no one ready to step up yet. Just my personal observation/opinion

 

[BLONG7]

lol trading ur team for Draisailt .

Wait for him to be a UFA................................then pounce, costs nothing but money.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Wait for him to be a UFA................................then pounce, costs nothing but money.

Do we even have a 1% chance at him as a UFA ? A sign and trade might be the only remotely realistic shot we can have.

 

[Habricot]

I don't think it's CBJ he can't handle. A lot of bad things (injuries, his father's death etc..) have happened while he was there. Getting a chance to step away is IMO the best for Laine.

I know it's a risk. But Laine has way too much talent to not be interested in adding him. He's also a great fit age wise, if he rebounds and becomes close to the player he was before.

If management does their research, and the cost is reasonable. Personally I think adding Laine is a no brainer.

Its not a risk per say to get soneone like Laine but he is now few years away from a complete season, in the same boat as Dach but I would say worse. It would be a pitty to get a guy like him to then just seem him play an handful of game in the season.

 

[Jaynki]

Dont know if it is realist or possible but Dylan Cozens would be an awesome trade target.

 

[Miller Time]

hf = the land of “he doesn’t hurt the team and they have bigger problems so why you being hard on (player X).”

I miss real goons, real face off and special team specialists (the top 10 nhl types as specialists).

Like the days of Odjick/Perrault/Audette