HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[WeThreeKings]

I think some of the criticism directed is that people are getting antsy about the state of the club as there are still a number of holes to fill.

The question is, do people really think 2 seasons (2 drafts) is a reasonable timeframe to expect significant improvements?

I truly believe people are really being impatient. This is what rebuilds look like. Overnight success just doesn't happen unless you had core pieces in hiding that suddenly hit their primes, but this is not the case here.

In terms of nhl ready talent, current management was left with a pretty barren field. There are good prospects they inherited, but there is still a ways to go.

It was always going to take a long time to get out of the handcuffs Bergevin placed on the roster.

Yet these same people pushing for the rebuild to be over will point to Buffalo as our competition and wish we were them, forgetting they have picked in the top 15 for TWELVE straight years.

 

[Colezuki]

I think some of the criticism directed at management is rooted in the fact that people are getting antsy about the state of the club as there are still a number of holes to fill.

The question is, do people really think 2 seasons (2 drafts) is a reasonable timeframe to expect significant improvements?

I truly believe people are really being impatient. This is what rebuilds look like. Overnight success just doesn't happen unless you had core pieces in hiding that suddenly hit their primes, but this is not the case here.

In terms of nhl ready talent, current management was left with a pretty barren field. There are good prospects they inherited, but there is still a ways to go.

We're 2 years away, this year we're in the tier of high top 10, next year bubble team, year after back to the playoffs. Fundamentally no young player has come in and had the impact necessary to elevate us since caufield and until we have 2 or 3 more who do we'll be stuck. The closest thing to it right now is Reinbacher or slaf and there 2 years away each

 

[DAChampion]

I think some of the criticism directed at management is rooted in the fact that people are getting antsy about the state of the club as there are still a number of holes to fill.

The question is, do people really think 2 seasons (2 drafts) is a reasonable timeframe to expect significant improvements?

I truly believe people are really being impatient. This is what rebuilds look like. Overnight success just doesn't happen unless you had core pieces in hiding that suddenly hit their primes, but this is not the case here.

In terms of nhl ready talent, current management was left with a pretty barren field. There are good prospects they inherited, but there is still a ways to go.

Agreed.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It was always going to take a long time to get out of the handcuffs Bergevin placed on the roster.

By the end of next season, the contracts of the following players with cap hits over $1.5M will be expired $(21.5M in total):

Pearson​

Monahan​

Dvorak​

Allen​

Savard​

Armia​

Evans​

Maybe Hughes re-signs one or two at bargain prices, if they are willing to be "good vets", and rest replaced with ELC or minimum salaries. Say $10.5M instead of the $21.5M they now cost.

$11M of the cap savings here gets added to the
$ 8M we have now (after dumping Wideman & Dvorak returns to active duty),
$ 6M dead cap (Edmundson/Petry retention + Bonus from 2022-23 +Alzner buyout),
$ 6M minimum cap increase in 2 years.

That's $31M. We need increases for Guhle and Slaf (around $10M??) plus RHP, Monty and Xhekaj (minimal), Barron should cost no more than Harris today. We should have about $16M or more left for upgrades via star power, or $21M if one of the guys we are upgrading is Anderson

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I think some of the criticism directed at management is rooted in the fact that people are getting antsy about the state of the club as there are still a number of holes to fill.

The question is, do people really think 2 seasons (2 drafts) is a reasonable timeframe to expect significant improvements?

I truly believe people are really being impatient. This is what rebuilds look like. Overnight success just doesn't happen unless you had core pieces in hiding that suddenly hit their primes, but this is not the case here.

In terms of nhl ready talent, current management was left with a pretty barren field. There are good prospects they inherited, but there is still a ways to go.

I will speak for myself here

Your first point is entirely true. I am antsy about the state of the club because we have a ton of holes.

However, I am more optimistic about the actual team we have than most other posters here who want to tank for the next 3 years. I actually enjoy watching this team and I cheer for them to win games. I think with a healthy Caufield and Suzuki we are closer than many think.

My main concerns come from a lack of accountability in the front office and very little desire to get better. Gorton and Bobrov are KNOWN for being awful at drafting high in the 1st round. I've said it multiple times and maybe I'm traumatized, but there is a very smug "smartest in the room" mentality that reminds me of Bergevin.

It just seems like we high five and pat each other on the backs when we haven't actually accomplished anything since Hughes and Gorton came in. What was their best move this offseason, trading 4 million on the cap this year for 2 million on the cap the next 2 years? They deserve a standing ovation for that.

Matheson was a great trade, but are we stuck with him forever now because Hughes says he is the nicest person he has ever met? We love doing right by players regardless of their performance, see Petry.

And I love St. Louis but I don't see any accountability in the system. Everybody gets to play how they want, but our transition is still atrocious and we can't get the puck out of our own end. There is no system in place other than be creative and have fun, which makes for entertaining games that we lose more often than not. Why Burrows is still here I have no clue, and if I have to hear about another one of Marty's motivational speeches in a blowout loss I'm going to be sick.

Highlighting the ~nepotism of Hughes and Gorton going back to the players they know isn't meant as a condemnation of them, more so a quip about how they have chosen to construct their team so far, with players they consider "true professionals" and have a personal relationship with.

 

[salbutera]

I will speak for myself here

Your first point is entirely true. I am antsy about the state of the club because we have a ton of holes.

However, I am more optimistic about the actual team we have than most other posters here who want to tank for the next 3 years. I actually enjoy watching this team and I cheer for them to win games. I think with a healthy Caufield and Suzuki we are closer than many think.

My main concerns come from a lack of accountability in the front office and very little desire to get better. Gorton and Bobrov are KNOWN for being awful at drafting high in the 1st round. I've said it multiple times and maybe I'm traumatized, but there is a very smug "smartest in the room" mentality that reminds me of Bergevin.

It just seems like we high five and pat each other on the backs when we haven't actually accomplished anything since Hughes and Gorton came in. What was their best move this offseason, trading 4 million on the cap this year for 2 million on the cap the next 2 years? They deserve a standing ovation for that.

Matheson was a great trade, but are we stuck with him forever now because Hughes says he is the nicest person he has ever met? We love doing right by players regardless of their performance, see Petry.

And I love St. Louis but I don't see any accountability in the system. Everybody gets to play how they want, but our transition is still atrocious and we can't get the puck out of our own end. There is no system in place other than be creative and have fun, which makes for entertaining games that we lose more often than not.

Highlighting the ~nepotism of Hughes and Gorton going back to the players they know isn't meant as a condemnation of them, more so a quip about how they have chosen to construct their team so far, with players they consider "true professionals" and have a personal relationship with.

 

[ReHabs]

I think some of the criticism directed at management is rooted in the fact that people are getting antsy about the state of the club as there are still a number of holes to fill.

The question is, do people really think 2 seasons (2 drafts) is a reasonable timeframe to expect significant improvements?

I truly believe people are really being impatient. This is what rebuilds look like. Overnight success just doesn't happen unless you had core pieces in hiding that suddenly hit their primes, but this is not the case here.

In terms of nhl ready talent, current management was left with a pretty barren field. There are good prospects they inherited, but there is still a ways to go.

Truthfully, nobody expects overnight success but the many of us who are not immediate big fans of Hughes can see some patterns which indicate certain things.

1. If we do keep seeing improvements from the NHL roster it actually indicates trouble ahead. Due to the draft rankings working as they do it is extremely unlikely for us to draft top3 again…

2. … and if we draft in the top3 again that means something has gone wrong with our young team and they haven’t shown any/sufficient growth.

3. We don’t have superstar/high-end prospects outside of Hutson.

Tank-and-Drafters cannot be satisfied with this situation. According to them Hughes should’ve sold off more and taken the tank seriously…

And according to those of us who initially doubted the tank approach, we would like to see tangible moves made to improve the roster. We have a rubbish roster and no 1C prospect, no 1D prospect (outside of tiny Hutson), and no 1G prospect (but they’re not necessary). What has to happen for the Habs to be able to acquire a superstar? Or just a regular star? A sub-PPG player with size was available this summer for not too expensive a price… but he was too expensive for the Habs to acquire. Perhaps it wasn’t the right time — I can buy that — but until we see tangible additions I think those of us who don’t like tanking have every right to be suspicious and pessimistic.

Tankers should be displeased, imo, because even including this season I don’t see it as a good thing if the Habs end bottom5.

Additionally, the excessive praise for every little move from Kent Hughes is getting nauseating. Until he proves it, he’s a nobody.

 

[Hope Of Glory]

So now that Price is on the LTIR, we should have around 10M$ cap space for year right?

Are there any short term (ideally 1 year) bad contract we can take on for a compensation?

 

[The Great Weal]

So now that Price is on the LTIR, we should have around 10M$ cap space for year right?

Are there any short term (ideally 1 year) bad contract we can take on for a compensation?

We are already overcrowded at every position as it is so I doubt it

 

[Runner77]

We are already overcrowded at every position as it is so I doubt it

Unless in that type of deal, one of the overcrowders goes the other way.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I thought you were addressing me with the video title

 

[ReHabs]

So now that Price is on the LTIR, we should have around 10M$ cap space for year right?

Are there any short term (ideally 1 year) bad contract we can take on for a compensation?

We have a bit less than 10m but yes we have room now. Who’s available? Perhaps Shane Pinto…?

 

[sampollock]

“I'm not sure we have enough advanced talent in all aspects: attack, defense or goalkeeping. We will always want to add more. Will it be through the draft, will it be through trades, or both? That remains to be determined. »“It happens [to find an impact player through a trade]. When you have a lot of assets, ammunition in the draft, we could trade a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick in 2025 to get a player and at the same time still have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th pick round. Do I expect us to draft with all our picks available? No. How we are going to use them, we cannot give an exact plan. That's not how it works. But we know that we have assets to look for players. »

- Kent Hughes

 

[Andy]

My main concerns come from a lack of accountability in the front office and very little desire to get better. Gorton and Bobrov are KNOWN for being awful at drafting high in the 1st round. I've said it multiple times and maybe I'm traumatized, but there is a very smug "smartest in the room" mentality that reminds me of Bergevin.

I feel like this is such an over simplification. Drafting players isn't the decision of one person. It is by committee. No one scout can see it all. They likely get reports from multiple employees tasked with scouting players. We do not know what the context was like in those other orgs. I just feel this is such a lazy narrative.

It just seems like we high five and pat each other on the backs when we haven't actually accomplished anything since Hughes and Gorton came in. What was their best move this offseason, trading 4 million on the cap this year for 2 million on the cap the next 2 years? They deserve a standing ovation for that.

What does this even mean? They've been around two drafts and have been saddled with a host of bad contracts. What did you reasonable expect them to accomplish in two drafts? Slaf is the only player in the last two drafts to play more than 8 nhl games.

This section of your reply just reinforces my point that you are being unreasonable impatient.

Who is giving a standing ovation? Please point to these people.

Matheson was a great trade, but are we stuck with him forever now because Hughes says he is the nicest person he has ever met? We love doing right by players regardless of their performance, see Petry.

Again, what does this even mean "we are stuck with him forever". We aren't stuck with anything. Matheson is a good player who for now is on the team. We do not know what his future holds. Also, he has played ONE season with the habs and you are somehow turning this into an issue. I am not even sure what the complaint is here.

And I love St. Louis but I don't see any accountability in the system. Everybody gets to play how they want, but our transition is still atrocious and we can't get the puck out of our own end. There is no system in place other than be creative and have fun, which makes for entertaining games that we lose more often than not. Why Burrows is still here I have no clue, and if I have to hear about another one of Marty's motivational speeches in a blowout loss I'm going to be sick.

Last year was St.Louis's first full season as coach on a team with a lot of holes. In what world should a coach who has 4-5 rookies on D and little talent outside three forwards be held accountable after ONE full season? Again, you sound unreasonable impatient.

Highlighting the ~nepotism of Hughes and Gorton going back to the players they know isn't meant as a condemnation of them, more so a quip about how they have chosen to construct their team so far, with players they consider "true professionals" and have a personal relationship with

No where in your post have you done a good job at showing why "nepotism" is a problem. The league is littered with teams hiring people based on personal relationships. It happens in every field.

You entire rant just reinforces the fact that the problem at this moment is lack of patience.

 

[Miller Time]

“I'm not sure we have enough advanced talent in all aspects: attack, defense or goalkeeping. We will always want to add more. Will it be through the draft, will it be through trades, or both? That remains to be determined. »“It happens [to find an impact player through a trade]. When you have a lot of assets, ammunition in the draft, we could trade a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick in 2025 to get a player and at the same time still have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th pick round. Do I expect us to draft with all our picks available? No. How we are going to use them, we cannot give an exact plan. That's not how it works. But we know that we have assets to look for players. »

- Kent Hughes

he spells it out so plainly, and yet some still struggle to see how clearly the bulk of their decisions align perfectly to the direction they've charted out. Disagree with the approach, fine, but there is little justification to ignore the consistency and clarity of their direction

 

[Mrb1p]

So now that Price is on the LTIR, we should have around 10M$ cap space for year right?

Are there any short term (ideally 1 year) bad contract we can take on for a compensation?

Carter has a NMC but Id take a peek there.

 

[ZUKI]

It was always going to take a long time to get out of the handcuffs Bergevin placed on the roster.

Yet these same people pushing for the rebuild to be over will point to Buffalo as our competition and wish we were them, forgetting they have picked in the top 15 for TWELVE straight years.

What i am reading here is that tanking for a long time doesn’t mean you will be contender. As you just said , Sabres have done it for twelve years, and they still haven’t make significant progress until last 2 seasons .

 

[salbutera]

What i am reading here is that tanking for a long time doesn’t mean you will be contender. As you just said , Sabres have done it for twelve years, and they still haven’t make significant progress until last 2 seasons .

And a lot of that progression is due to the sudden maturity of a C who as recently as 2-summers back Buf was ready to jettison for a 5th rounder ..

 

[therocket9]

It was always going to take a long time to get out of the handcuffs Bergevin placed on the roster.

Yet these same people pushing for the rebuild to be over will point to Buffalo as our competition and wish we were them, forgetting they have picked in the top 15 for TWELVE straight years.

And it will be 13 straight years for Buffalo after this year because their dumb gm is just like Bergevin refuses to trade 1st round picks and go for it.

 

[ReHabs]

he spells it out so plainly, and yet some still struggle to see how clearly the bulk of their decisions align perfectly to the direction they've charted out. Disagree with the approach, fine, but there is little justification to ignore the consistency and clarity of their direction

“We want to get better but don’t know how or when it’ll happen”

Okay, riveting. I am simply blown away at the plainly laid out direction and how consistent it is, as well.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I will speak for myself here

Your first point is entirely true. I am antsy about the state of the club because we have a ton of holes.

For sure, there are holes.

I've often said we need 11 strong players (7F, 3D and 1G). Maybe 10 if one is a true superstar.

At the moment, we have 3F, 1D and 0G.

I'm prepared to bet on Guhle and Slaf to become #s 5 and 6.

Newhook is a total question mark, and Reinbacher might actually be great but is too far away right now. I'm not sold on Hutson or Mailloux becoming rounded players we can count on for the top half of our team.

However, I am more optimistic about the actual team we have than most other posters here who want to tank for the next 3 years. I actually enjoy watching this team and I cheer for them to win games. I think with a healthy Caufield and Suzuki we are closer than many think.

and Dacfh and Matheson.

My main concerns come from a lack of accountability in the front office and very little desire to get better.

I think the desire to get better was definitely there to start, and even up to and including the Newhook trade.

But I was disappointed that we didn't just hold onto Petry the second time until a better deal came along. Lindstrom is weak. I also thought we gave away deSmith too easily, out of excessive loyalty to Allen.

Gorton and Bobrov are KNOWN for being awful at drafting high in the 1st round. I've said it multiple times and maybe I'm traumatized, but there is a very smug "smartest in the room" mentality that reminds me of Bergevin.

I don' t think either of our two top picks the past two drafts are off-the-board awful. Development will be key.

It just seems like we high five and pat each other on the backs when we haven't actually accomplished anything since Hughes and Gorton came in. What was their best move this offseason, trading 4 million on the cap this year for 2 million on the cap the next 2 years? They deserve a standing ovation for that.

The Newhook trade and extension, RHP extension, Monahan extension, initial Hoffman trade .

Matheson was a great trade, but are we stuck with him forever now because Hughes says he is the nicest person he has ever met? We love doing right by players regardless of their performance, see Petry.

Matheson is 29 on one of the greatest contracts in the NHL. I wish it were one year longer. He has great on ice value, whether or not he is a nice guy. I do not feel stuck with him.

And I love St. Louis but I don't see any accountability in the system. Everybody gets to play how they want, but our transition is still atrocious and we can't get the puck out of our own end. There is no system in place other than be creative and have fun, which makes for entertaining games that we lose more often than not.

Drouin saw his ice time cut, Armia as well. Hoffman skipped games, Dadonov too. I don't agree MSL holds no one accountable. I do think he significantly overdoes the playing off-wing exception, which is a main reason we get hemmed in our own zone.

Why Burrows is still here I have no clue,

No idea, and he was not even Hughes' man.

and if I have to hear about another one of Marty's motivational speeches in a blowout loss I'm going to be sick.

Highlighting the ~nepotism of Hughes and Gorton going back to the players they know isn't meant as a condemnation of them, more so a quip about how they have chosen to construct their team so far, with players they consider "true professionals" and have a personal relationship with.

Two guys out of 26 on the Habs and one guy out of 27 on the Rocket. Hardly constructing our teams via nepotism!

 

[BaseballCoach]

So now that Price is on the LTIR, we should have around 10M$ cap space for year right?

Are there any short term (ideally 1 year) bad contract we can take on for a compensation?

We'll have about $7.3M once Dvorak is activated and someone demoted to make room, and if we add Wideman to LTIR until he can be waived/demoted too, it is actually $8.023M.

 

[DAChampion]

We'll have about $7.3M once Dvorak is activated and someone demoted to make room, and if we add Wideman to LTIR until he can be waived/demoted too, it is actually $8.023M.

I think it goes up with every game, but maybe not with LTIR.

 

[Guy Larose]

“We want to get better but don’t know how or when it’ll happen”

Okay, riveting. I am simply blown away at the plainly laid out direction and how consistent it is, as well.

You're just a hater and that has been painfully obvious over the years, especially in the tank thread. Your takes on the team are just plain bad.

 

[ngc_5128]

I think it goes up with every game, but maybe not with LTIR.

With LTIR the entire cap hit is applied, there is no accrual through out the season.