HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #85 - Offseason Editon

[BLONG7]

Hutson and Engstrom are not signed yet, Mailloux and Struble will likely start in Laval, and Reinbacher is a real unknown.


Very different players. Kovacevic is much more vulnerable to dump-ins with speed and pressure.

I didn't say they were the same type of players.
I said, they had good seasons, with very little credit from many.

 

[NewDef]

I don't know there will be enough time for 'In due time', personally?

How long will it take for Harris to develop enough to have an identity and any value in a trade? At this point, the besting going for him is the contract at 1.4M for this season and next season and the refreshing interviews that he gives. Beyond that, he's nothing special... yet.

Harris needs to play to build value in a trade.

This year, he will have to beat out Matheson, Guhle and Xhekaj on the left side -- and that's the easiest time he'll have getting a spoon the left side, meaning, outside of injuries, Harris is not landing a full time spot on the left side in the next two years.

Two years from now gets even more complicated for Harrison the left side asHutson, by then, should also playing in Laval (if he doesn't come straight to Montreal), trying to work his way into the Habs' lineup as well. Matheson, Guhle, Hutson and Xhekaj battling it out with Harris for a spot on the left side.

Who knows if it's that year, or the one after, but Engstrom will also need be factored as a possible left D. At least, Engstrom plays the right side.

Wait, that's also competition forharris at that point since the right side is the only real shot he has at making the lineup full time, or close to it.

This year, Harris needs to beat out Savard, Barron, Kovacevic or Lindstrom. It's not a cakewalk, but it's a much easier proposition than the left side for Harris this season.

Next year, however, starts getting complicated as Mailloux will now have a full season experience as a pro and possibly have had a taste the NHL this season? He'll be added toSavard, Barron, Kovacevic and Lindstrom as competition for Harris when it comes to TOI on the right side of D.

I'm not even sure if, next year, management won't be giving Reinbacher every chance to make the Habs' lineup either, after a year in Switzerland this year?

Plus, Xhekaj might also be auditioning for a spot on the right side as he gets squeezed out from the left side with Matheson, Guhle, Hutson and, possibly, Engstrom, vying for a spot there by then.

I'm just saying that the future is coming much sooner than we think and that I'm not sure we will have all that much time develop and establish a value for our strength at D before needing to move them to make room for those we intend to keep.

Our D may end unjust being complementary pieces in a trade package and not really what drives the size of the return in a trade, unless we intend token cheaper D like Harris and move a higher profile prospect with higher upside, like Mailloux, or Hutson, for a bigger return at another position in the lineup.

What if Hutson burns up the AHL in two years? Do we trade him for an NHL-ready, bluechip prospect on the wing that projects be a 30+ goal scorer?

Do we go with a bigger D-Corps the likes of:

Guhle (6'2", 200 lbs) - Reinbacher (6'2", 185lbs)
Engstrom (6'2", 190 lbs) - Mailloux (6'3", 212lbs)
Xhekaj (6'4", 238lbs) - Barron (6'2", 190lbs)

With Harris (5'11", 189lbs) as the only D under 6'2", our 7th D?
Harris.

Yeah, it sucks not to have Hutson and hoping he can play like he did in the NCAA at the NHL level, but if we get a 30+ goal scoring winger out of it, is it worth it, considering the remaining quality of the D we still have for the long haul? It's not like we will be able to pay all of Guhle, Reinbacher, Hutson and Mailloux the big bucks if they all pan out. we might have to settle a shutdown D like Engstrom who can bring more physicality and complement Mailloux properly?

Caufield - Suzuki - Roy
Newhook - Dach - Sniper in return for Hutson
Farrell - Beck - Heineman
RHP - Davidson - Ylonen
Xhekaj

Guhle - Reinbacher
Engstrom - Mailloux
Xhekaj - Barron
Harris

I''m fully in line with how you present it. In due time feels more like tdl THIS YEAR. I have a very good feeling about Engstrom too. I would be curious and listen on offers for Hutson if we get a top 6 winger with 30 goal potential.

I like your possible future lines with Roy on the first, i have a feeling it would reduce the pressure on CC and make it a double wham line as he really is opportunistic and this is because he reads the play well and has the tools to react effectively. RHP for me goes on the 3rd. Farell gets traded or 13th. Xhekaj/Davidson/Tuch on the 4th?

I would'nt write off Kovy who has been much better than one could expect from a waiver pick up as he got more reps. Seems like he's putting it together and as a 7th D he'd be great in a year or two when he gets pushed down.

Considering all this and all the assets available, i can see a bunch and a half of trades this year and the next depending on who grabs a spot. It's a great place to be for a team when you are positive on assets (you have some with value to spare).

 

[HuGort]

Harris, Kovy and Barron are the most likely of the kids to get traded IMO. Savard and Lidstrom most likely vets to eventually get moved. Matheson isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

Guhle, Xhekaj, Reinbacher, Hutson, Mailloux, Engstrom are the future for now and aren’t going anywhere.

I wouldn't be surprised Matheson breaks out this season. Even gets Norris votes

 

[Sterling Archer]

I wouldn't be surprised Matheson breaks out this season. Even gets Norris votes

May be a lot to ask for but I can certainly see a 45+ point season if he stays healthy. He's that good and the only pivot Habs have who can do what he does. He'll be used a LOT this year.

 

[sampollock]

May be a lot to ask for but I can certainly see a 45+ point season if he stays healthy. He's that good and the only pivot Habs have who can do what he does. He'll be used a LOT this year.

AGREED
norris don't think so

 

[Scriptor]

AGREED
norris don't think so

If Matheson reaches 50+ points, he could get the odd vote from JiC.

 

[HuGort]

May be a lot to ask for but I can certainly see a 45+ point season if he stays healthy. He's that good and the only pivot Habs have who can do what he does. He'll be used a LOT this year.

Matheson had 34 points in 48 games season. If he plays whole season like he did last year, I think he will get in top 10 of Norris voting.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Matheson had 34 points in 48 games season. If he plays whole season like he did last year, I think he will get in top 10 of Norris voting.

I hope so!

 

[HuGort]

And just how are you planning on obtaining EP without trading any of those Habs players you just mentioned?

Pettersson not going to return more than Tkachuk. Who returned a late first, a second pairing defenseman and 30 year old first line winger but on bad contract. So that hurt Huberdeau value.

We have the Florida pick, from first Monahan trade. Be a start. We have extra defense, Harris? A second line winger but younger and on more reasonable contract?

 

[NewDef]

Pettersson not going to return more than Tkachuk. Who returned a late first, a second pairing defenseman and 30 year old first line winger but on bad contract. So that hurt Huberdeau value.

We have the Florida pick, from first Monahan trade. Be a start. We have extra defense, Harris? A second line winger but younger and on more reasonable contract?

Anderson...

I would love to get something solid for Anderson + 1st + Harris. Anderson is good, but I think he'd be more suited to play in the west and i don't consider him as core considering age. I'm sure he's liked and all but he's the asset of value that we can let go that does'nt fit in 2 years from now.

Dang i would be happy to let Galagher go in such a trade and add a 2nd, he might rejuvenate playing at home a bit before retirement...

 

[Xirik]

every other team in the league would beat that offer.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Is there merit to this proposal for both teams?:

VAN
Tyler Myers 6M
Minor leaguer (to balance contracts)

MTL
De Smith
Armia
Wideman
Total: 5.962M

Vancouver:
Upgrade at the goalie position. De Smith is the most desirable piece for them. Wideman and Armia they can bury or use depending on needs and available space. Armia can be useful on a PK for a team needing defensive help.

Montreal:
Opens the way for youngsters. Getting rid of the least desirable player's second contract year (Armia). It is also a way to get rid of unwanted vets in a more noble way (trade) than being forced to waive or sit them. Fulfills the promise of not demoting De Smith too. An overpaid RD that could be flipped or is out of the books after this year is not a bad yield.

What do you think?

 

[HuGort]

Anderson...

I would love to get something solid for Anderson + 1st + Harris. Anderson is good, but I think he'd be more suited to play in the west and i don't consider him as core considering age. I'm sure he's liked and all but he's the asset of value that we can let go that does'nt fit in 2 years from now.

Dang i would be happy to let Galagher go in such a trade and add a 2nd, he might rejuvenate playing at home a bit before retirement...

Anderson wouldn't have that kind of value.

 

[Scriptor]

You might be more able to get a Pinto as a player value for Anderson, but even iofyou wanted Pinto for Anderson, OTT has no cap room for Anderson.

 

[sampollock]

Anderson...

I would love to get something solid for Anderson + 1st + Harris. Anderson is good, but I think he'd be more suited to play in the west and i don't consider him as core considering age. I'm sure he's liked and all but he's the asset of value that we can let go that does'nt fit in 2 years from now.

Dang i would be happy to let Galagher go in such a trade and add a 2nd, he might rejuvenate playing at home a bit before retirement...

We need Anderson
Need toughness right now

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Is there merit to this proposal for both teams?:

VAN
Tyler Myers 6M
Minor leaguer (to balance contracts)

MTL
De Smith
Armia
Wideman
Total: 5.962M

Vancouver:
Upgrade at the goalie position. De Smith is the most desirable piece for them. Wideman and Armia they can bury or use depending on needs and available space. Armia can be useful on a PK for a team needing defensive help.

Montreal:
Opens the way for youngsters. Getting rid of the least desirable player's second contract year (Armia). It is also a way to get rid of unwanted vets in a more noble way (trade) than being forced to waive or sit them. Fulfills the promise of not demoting De Smith too. An overpaid RD that could be flipped or is out of the books after this year is not a bad yield.

What do you think?

No.

Nucks want to move Myers out for cap space not 38,000 in space.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

No.

Nucks want to move Myers out for cap space not 38,000 in space.

Well that's the point. Break one bigger asset into smaller pieces that can be traded, used or buried individually for more relief. And if buried they can be called up in case of injury when space becomes available.

Would they prefer a trade where they ship out 6M and get 2M back, sure. But seeing that it has not happened yet, it looks like no one is interested without an asset as payment, even the rare teams that do have enough cap space on their own.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Matheson Norris candidate

some of you need to touch grass

 

[DAChampion]

Matheson Norris candidate

some of you need to touch grass

It's fine to think Matheson will improve some more, don't be such a debbie downer ;-)

But, he won't get a Norris nomination next year regardless of how he plays, that's a reputation award.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Well that's the point. Break one bigger asset into smaller pieces that can be traded, used or buried individually for more relief. And if buried they can be called up in case of injury when space becomes available.

Would they prefer a trade where they ship out 6M and get 2M back, sure. But seeing that it has not happened yet, it looks like no one is interested without an asset as payment, even the rare teams that do have enough cap space on their own.

His owed a bonus that's being paid around this time, maybe already has.

Once that bonus is paid, he's only owed 2 mill salary, so a lower team might grab that chance for the higher cap hit at a lower actual cost while still being an OK player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wouldn't be surprised Matheson breaks out this season. Even gets Norris votes

He had a great 2nd half last season. If he does that for a full season, it's going to get noticed a lot more. MSL is a great coach man. He's very smart at identifying areas a player can focus on. Last year I read that MSL told him to not think too much and rely on instincts more... seemed to raise his game a bit more.

I really do think we have another late bloomer like Petry in the age 28+ range. The value we are going to get from Matheson over the rest of that term will be very good.

 

[EquabaleAce]

His owed a bonus that's being paid around this time, maybe already has.

Once that bonus is paid, he's only owed 2 mill salary, so a lower team might grab that chance for the higher cap hit at a lower actual cost while still being an OK player.

Once Myers leaves in whatever kind of deal, I could see the Canucks having interest in DeSmith as Demko has been prone to injury and Silvos is relatively inexperienced

 

[Rapala]

He had a great 2nd half last season. If he does that for a full season, it's going to get noticed a lot more. MSL is a great coach man. He's very smart at identifying areas a player can focus on. Last year I read that MSL told him to not think too much and rely on instincts more... seemed to raise his game a bit more.

I really do think we have another late bloomer like Petry in the age 28+ range. The value we are going to get from Matheson over the rest of that term will be very good.

All the vets who talked about the upcoming season were on the same page. Accountability is part of the equation going forward. I don't expect Matheson to play that loosey goosey style of hockey we saw at the tail end of last season. He'll have to choose his spots more carefully. It shouldn't affect his overall numbers if he is on point. It is one of the aspects I admire most about Ghule's game. Just how discerning he is at such an early age.

 

[Deus ex machina]

No.

Nucks want to move Myers out for cap space not 38,000 in space.

Is there merit to this proposal for both teams?:

VAN
Tyler Myers 6M
Minor leaguer (to balance contracts)

MTL
De Smith
Armia
Wideman
Total: 5.962M

Vancouver:
Upgrade at the goalie position. De Smith is the most desirable piece for them. Wideman and Armia they can bury or use depending on needs and available space. Armia can be useful on a PK for a team needing defensive help.

Montreal:
Opens the way for youngsters. Getting rid of the least desirable player's second contract year (Armia). It is also a way to get rid of unwanted vets in a more noble way (trade) than being forced to waive or sit them. Fulfills the promise of not demoting De Smith too. An overpaid RD that could be flipped or is out of the books after this year is not a bad yield.

What do you think?

That proposal makes a lot of sense.
I think that Vancouver would have to add a pick though to even out the negative values.

I'm just not sure that Vancouver wants to add another forward but they'll probably have to take another undesirable contract back if they want to get rid of Myers without having to give a first round pick.

I think sending Price's contract for Myers is another possibility, similar to the Weber for Dadonov trade.
It would be a way for Vancouver to create even more capspace without giving out assets.

 

[Habs Halifax]

All the vets who talked about the upcoming season were on the same page. Accountability is part of the equation going forward. I don't expect Matheson to play that loosey goosey style of hockey we saw at the tail end of last season. He'll have to choose his spots more carefully. It shouldn't affect his overall numbers if he is on point. It is one of the aspects I admire most about Ghule's game. Just how discerning he is at such an early age.

I think the message from MSL will continue to be a balance of being withing a system and being accountable but still allowing creativity. I wouldn't called it loosey goosey and I do expect MSL to be consistent... especially in the next season or two with so many youth being injected.

He's clearly teaching them to play their game but to know when to take chances and when not too. I don't see that part changing much with MSL.