HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #84: Off-Season edition

[PP Subban]

He's not there to work hard and show the kids how to play the "right" way, he's there so that when the kid makes a nice pass for a one-timer it actually results in something. If you play offensive players with guys like Armia and Gallagher who can't even do a give-and-go then the kids will learn that they can't trust their linemates which screws them up when they do get a chance in the top-6 because they have to unlearn it before they can establish any sort of chemistry.

Right…the 2 goals in his last 30 games is valuable to the young kids playmaking development. He’s useless. If you wanna learn how to mail it in once a contract is locked up, this is your guy.

 

[Scriptor]

not really.

Paying anything for a guy who supposedly says he want to be here after next season is silly asset management. Use any assets you would have used to get him and use that for a goalie or RHD upgrade and he comes here as a UFA anyways right?

If he doesn't then he was clearly full of it and never wanted to be here.....

Yeah, so the onus is all on the power forward C who has the potential for 30+ goals, PPG production and two-way play to make every sacrifice to come to Montreal.

That "If he doesn't, he's full of it and the anti-christ" attitude is just a cop out.

Montreal has the assets to get PLD, get a young RHD upgrade and keep its young core together at the same time.

Refusal to see that is something else...

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yeah, so the onus is all on the power forward C who has the potential for 30+ goals, PPG production and two-way play to make every sacrifice to come to Montreal.

That "If he doesn't, he's full of it and the anti-christ" attitude is just a cop out.

Yes, that is to punish Martin Lapointe, Daniele Briere and David Perron. So there!

Personally, I would offer:

Calgary 2025 first rounder​

Christian Dvorak​

Filip Mesar​

2023 4th round pick​

2023 5th round pick​

for Dubois and Dillon

 

[Destopcorner]

Askarov is my target and we have the picks and prospects to make it happen.

Unless Nashville parts ways with Saros which I doubt, he should be available at the right price.

 

[ReHabs]

Yes, that is to punish Martin Lapointe, Daniele Briere and David Perron. So there!

Personally, I would offer:

Calgary 2025 first rounder​

Christian Dvorak​

Filip Mesar​

2023 4th round pick​

2023 5th round pick​

for Dubois and Dillon

That package gets the deal done but PLD better be signed to a good contract at the time of the trade.

Otherwise, that CGY 2025 pick looks like it'll be top15. Mesar is a recent 1st round pick (who is not doing too hot, but it's still early and he's developing) and Dvorak can possibly be moved for a late 1st round pick at some trade deadline to come. So you're packaging three first round picks, more or less, for PLD.

I think, for me, this is the upper limit of the trade offer value... and Dillon is a cap-dump isn't he, I think we gotta cut him out of this offer or they'd have to pony up something for us to take him.

 

[Galchenyuk15]

I have a feeling Anderson is kept to play with PLD.

Why?

You really want to put a winger with no hockey sense, who can't make a pass, who average 30-35 points a year, 0,45 ppg with Montréal, with a PPG player in this new NHL? Anderson currently sits at the rank 299 in the NHL for his PPG ... Guhle 0,38, KK 0,39, Anderson 0,43 ...

The only thing Anderson do in the offensive zone is shooting at the net and cycling around the net and give the puck at the defenseman because he doesn't have the brain, the hand or the speed to execute other thing in the offensive zone; the game goes to fast for him!

He didn't anticipate the play, he react! He doesn't create space or buy time for other because he doesn't know what he is doing on the ice, Perry can't skate anymore but he is still able to create space or buying time for others because he is a hockey player and know what he is doing when he is on the ice ....

I don't know where the guy we trade for when he is playing in Columbus are now, a TANK with a main streak who can put some goals on the sheet and bring a physical elements, but I really don't like what Anderson becoming with time and this situation remember me of the Moen ERA.

We have sign this guy for his past accomplishments but he never deliver what he has achieve in the past with us and with the time become soft as a butter thinking is a hockey player and not a grinder. Anderson play in the NHL at first because of the dimension he bring to the the game and not because he is a good hockey player; is not here to play hockey and we didn't pay him that kind of money for his skills ...

I will trade this guy ASAP because you will need to have 4 generationnal talent to win something if we kept Anderson Gallagher and Armia (15,4 millions per year) in the lineup at the wing because no one can't play hockey with that players because of their limited hockey sense; not a kind of player who make people around him better because they don't use the option on the ice effectively and rarely make the "good play". HM to Armia he see the ice way better than the 2 others but he simply doesn't have the heart to use him effectively.

My Trade :

To Montréal :
Tom Wilson
3rd pick 2024

To Washington :
Josh Anderson
1st pick Calgary (Monahan trade)
Mysak or Norlinder

I'm ready to overpaying to put your hand on the best powerforward in the game with using the free gift of Calgary in the Monahan trade! I just don't see the value Anderson bring for the money he make, it's a question of time before a 35 points player with a 5,5 millions contracts at long term who doesn't look interest to bring the physical elements anymore become a part of the problem when this team will be competitive again with his Albatros contract!

In a couple years a lineup like that :
Caufield-Suzuki-Wilson
Dach-PLD-1st pick 2023 (we need a shooter here)
Slafkovsky-Beck-Farrell
Heineman-Evans-Mesar
RHP-1st pick 2023 (FLO)

Caufield-Dach-Dubois
Slafkovsky-Suzuki-Wilson
1st pick 2023-Beck-Farrell
Heineman-Evans-Mesar
RHP-1st pick 2023 (FLO)

Caufield-Suzuki-Dubois
Slafkovsky-Dach-Wilson
1st pick 2023-Beck-Farrell
Heineman-Evans-Mesar
RHP-1st pick 2023 (FLO)

* : Wilson can still be effective in a top 9 if we have better option than him and if he slow down with time but will always bring the physical dimension he has!

 

[salbutera]

I have a feeling Anderson is kept to play with PLD.

Since we’re speculating … Dach-PLD-Gurianov makes for an interesting power & skill line

With MSLs out of the box thinking approach PLD is a C essentially for faceoffs, Dach lines up at LW but plays C once play starts & Gurianov plays his natural RW

 

[yianik]

1. I know that when a good player wants to be in Montreal, then as long as the price isn't over the top, we need to keep that player. Players rarely want to come to the Habs, usually its guys who found themselves here that want to stay.
2. Having PLD gives us 2 top 6Cs, who are both in their prime. Is one a 1C ? Don't know, we will have to see, but it's promising. This doesn't even include Dach.
3. Stuff happens. PLD wants to come here so let's just wait another year when we get him for free ? Okay, so Jets open the bidding and we don't bid. What does PLD make of that ? He isn't guaranteed that we will offer him a contract at all let alone the money he might want.

I'm not saying you pay anything for him, and it has to be with an extension. But if we are picking 6th or 7th overall after the lottery results this year , I would offer that as main part of a package to the Jets.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't know where the guy we trade for when he is playing in Columbus are now, a TANK with a main streak who can put some goals on the sheet and bring a physical elements, but I really don't like what Anderson becoming with time and this situation remember me of the Moen ERA.

We have sign this guy for his past accomplishments but he never deliver what he has achieve in the past with us and with the time become soft as a butter thinking is a hockey player and not a grinder. Anderson play in the NHL at first because of the dimension he bring to the the game and not because he is a good hockey player; is not here to play hockey and we didn't pay him that kind of money for his skills ...

Ignore the injury-filled season. Anderson is pacing, year by year:

2016-17 = 18 goals rookie season​

2017-18 = 25 goals​

2018-19 = 27 goals​

2020-21 = 27 goals first with Habs​

2021-22 = 23 goals​

2022-23 = 25 goals​

Solid, consistent player. The team put an 'A' on him because he is respected by the coaches and players.

Maybe you should lose the hate.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That package gets the deal done but PLD better be signed to a good contract at the time of the trade.

Otherwise, that CGY 2025 pick looks like it'll be top15. Mesar is a recent 1st round pick (who is not doing too hot, but it's still early and he's developing) and Dvorak can possibly be moved for a late 1st round pick at some trade deadline to come. So you're packaging three first round picks, more or less, for PLD.

I think, for me, this is the upper limit of the trade offer value... and Dillon is a cap-dump isn't he, I think we gotta cut him out of this offer or they'd have to pony up something for us to take him.

I'm not sure Dvorak gets us a first. Mesar would not be a 1st rounder in a re-draft. The Calgary pick is so far away, you have to value it as exactly middle of the pack = 16 or 17.

I want to add talent every year, and this gives us a way to do it without trading either of our first rounders this year.

Dillon is just one year. At worst overpaid briefly, but still an NHL D.

 

[ReHabs]

I'm not sure Dvorak gets us a first. Mesar would not be a 1st rounder in a re-draft. The Calgary pick is so far away, you have to value it as exactly middle of the pack = 16 or 17.

I want to add talent every year, and this gives us a way to do it without trading either of our first rounders this year.

Dillon is just one year. At worst overpaid briefly, but still an NHL D.

Even Mesar + CGY 1st is rather high — remember that PLD can be qualified and kept for one more year and then they’d lose him for nothing. Dillon coming over should lower the price (or net another asset) rather than require Dvorak.

I’d keep Dvorak, scrap Dillon and bang out a trade Mesar + CGY 1st 2024/2025 for PLD. This would be a very good trade for the Habs even though some people tend to fall in love with prospects.

I’m curious why you’re so down on Mesar though. I don’t follow prospects very much so I don’t know.

 

[jrom]

This obsession with trading for a forward. Our team has no starting goalie and no number 1 defenseman. Getting a top forward puts us in the bubble zone. No thank you.

We need a good middle6 C but agreed with you we don’t need more W (or LD).

 

[ReHabs]

This obsession with trading for a forward. Our team has no starting goalie and no number 1 defenseman. Getting a top forward puts us in the bubble zone. No thank you.

The only way a team gets better is by adding good players as much and as often as possible.

Players develop when they play around good players. A rising tide raises all boats.

Playing with Markov helped make the careers of Komisarek, Souray, and others. Playing with PLD (who would be our first PPG player since Kovalev) would certainly improve his linemates and their trade values.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Even Mesar + CGY 1st is rather high — remember that PLD can be qualified and kept for one more year and then they’d lose him for nothing. Dillon coming over should lower the price (or net another asset) rather than require Dvorak.

I’d keep Dvorak, scrap Dillon and bang out a trade Mesar + CGY 1st 2024/2025 for PLD. This would be a very good trade for the Habs even though some people tend to fall in love with prospects.

I’m curious why you’re so down on Mesar though. I don’t follow prospects very much so I don’t know.

If he plays out his last RFA season, PLD will fetch a 2024 first plus good prospect at the TDL.

I include Dvorak because:

We don't need him if we have PLD;​

Winnipeg is not going to want futures-only if they trade him before the season;​

It gives us more cap flexibility​

​

Dillon is on the table if Winnipeg is cap concerned, but not essential from our side.

Perhaps Winnipeg would be satisifed with Evans and Harris rather than Dvorak, in terms of immediate roster players.

Also, Mesar could be switched for another good prospect of their liking, except Farrell, Hutson and Dobes. I thought Mesar may have more value for them while I am indifferent.

Not that I would do it, but I wonder if you would do Slafkovsky for Dubois straight up. Am curious.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The only way a team gets better is by adding good players as much and as often as possible.

Players develop when they play around good players. A rising tide raises all boats.

Playing with Markov helped make the careers of Komisarek, Souray, and others. Playing with PLD (who would be our first PPG player since Kovalev) would certainly improve his linemates and their trade values.

Yes! Needs to be said and repeated.

 

[ReHabs]

Not that I would do it, but I wonder if you would do Slafkovsky for Dubois straight up. Am curious.

I had a much longer thing written which assessed Slaf's value but I just erased it, for fear of getting killed by some people here.

Short answer: No I wouldn't.

Less short answer: I don't think Slaf is the right counter-weight for PLD.

If WPG wants to compete, they'll need NHLers not non-NHLers such as Slaf.

If WPG wants to blow it up, they'll want a bundle of futures not a singular high-risk one who's already had one 40gp+ injury and is a liability to get concussed every game.

If WPG want to maximize their flexibility they will want 1st round picks and NCAA-playing prospects, not a player already into his second year of his ELC (which, therefore rushes their re-build).

The point isn't to disparage Slaf but to have a realistic image of the prospect's trade value today he might improve and thrive or he might not but at the moment of the trade I doubt either side will be interested in playing him as a card. Until he hit the next level as a player, he is a big question mark.

MTL needs bundles of talent at the NHL level and they have invested a lot in Slaf. If they trade Slaf for PLD they would do the classic Bergevin hot-swap rather than actually adding talent to the core. We have to imagine that Slaf will be a member of this core to which we want to add PLD... at least until the end of next season -- if at that point Slaf is still a clueless, under-productive goof I would re-evaluate his retention vs. trade value.

In summary: I'd prefer to hammer out a package for PLD that is similar to the Fiala trade if it is possible. It really depends on PLD himself.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I had a much longer thing written which assessed Slaf's value but I just erased it, for fear of getting killed by some people here.

Short answer: No I wouldn't.

Less short answer: I don't think Slaf is the right counter-weight for PLD.

If WPG wants to compete, they'll need NHLers not non-NHLers such as Slaf.

If WPG wants to blow it up, they'll want a bundle of futures not a singular high-risk one who's already had one 40gp+ injury and is a liability to get concussed every game.

If WPG want to maximize their flexibility they will want 1st round picks and NCAA-playing prospects, not a player already into his second year of his ELC (which, therefore rushes their re-build).

The point isn't to disparage Slaf but to have a realistic image of the prospect's trade value today he might improve and thrive or he might not but at the moment of the trade I doubt either side will be interested in playing him as a card. Until he hit the next level as a player, he is a big question mark.

MTL needs bundles of talent at the NHL level and they have invested a lot in Slaf. If they trade Slaf for PLD they would do the classic Bergevin hot-swap rather than actually adding talent to the core. We have to imagine that Slaf will be a member of this core to which we want to add PLD... at least until the end of next season -- if at that point Slaf is still a clueless, under-productive goof I would re-evaluate his retention vs. trade value.

In summary: I'd prefer to hammer out a package for PLD that is similar to the Fiala trade if it is possible. It really depends on PLD himself.

I would not do it for that one reason - the goal is to add top-6 talent and Slaf is still a hope to do so.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I respectfully disagree.

Dubois is a single year older than Suzuki and only 3 years older than Caufield and Dach.

Although he is not the superstar we desperately need, he is an elite piece that will bring size, skill and sandpaper in our top six.

Adding Dubois, Farrell, our 2023 1st, Mailloux and Hutson in the next two season will be very significant considering what we already have. There might be other who surprise who i haven't named.

With Dubois, we are not TB/Boston/Toronto level but its certainly in the next tier with the teams 6-10 in the NHL.

I think you're DRAMATICALLY overrating Montreal's existing roster and the ability of Montreal's prospects if you think Montreal would be "certainly in the next tier with the teams 6-10 in the NHL" with Dubois, Farrell, the 2023 1st, Mailloux and Hutson by 2025. Maybe if that 1st is Bedard. Its possible, but its far from a certainty.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think you're DRAMATICALLY overrating Montreal's existing roster and the ability of Montreal's prospects if you think Montreal would be "certainly in the next tier with the teams 6-10 in the NHL" with Dubois, Farrell, the 2023 1st, Mailloux and Hutson by 2025. Maybe if that 1st is Bedard. Its possible, but its far from a certainty.

You're forgetting the available cap space that could be used in 2025 to add two more strong pieces.

 

[habsfan92]

Winnipeg will outright refuse those offers. If Slaf or Dach are thrown in, maybe. Philly will outbid, for example (like Konec+top 10 plus Sanheim/Provorov). Jets want a good center back, and it will not be Dvorak or Evans. Mesar is 4 years away from the NHL, being in Winnipeg I guarantee they will not take that. Jets don't want our 4th liners

 

[Captain Mountain]

You're forgetting the available cap space that could be used in 2025 to add two more strong pieces.

Not really? Montreal's going to need to be careful with their cap space with guys who will be due new contracts in the next couple of seasons. And you'd need assets to make trades or overpay for UFAs. And we're talking about a baseline of a "certainty" of being a 6-10 team in the NHL. They'll be in a far better spot than they are now, but they'll need shrewd moves and luck to get there.

 

[Draft]

Winnipeg will outright refuse those offers. If Slaf or Dach are thrown in, maybe. Philly will outbid, for example (like Konec+top 10 plus Sanheim/Provorov). Jets want a good center back, and it will not be Dvorak or Evans. Mesar is 4 years away from the NHL, being in Winnipeg I guarantee they will not take that. Jets don't want our 4th liners

They’re going to offer that for a rental? Dubois has made it very clear he’s going to go where he wants as a UFA (likely MTL, but who knows). Philly is only purchasing a year of guaranteed team control.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not really? Montreal's going to need to be careful with their cap space with guys who will be due new contracts in the next couple of seasons. And you'd need assets to make trades or overpay for UFAs. And we're talking about a baseline of a "certainty" of being a 6-10 team in the NHL. They'll be in a far better spot than they are now, but they'll need shrewd moves and luck to get there.

I ran the numbers. They work.

2024-25

7.9 Caufield
7.9 Suzuki
2.9 Gurianov

1.0 Slafkovsky
7.9 Dubois
3.4 Dach

1.0 Farrell
1.0 2023 1st rounder
5.5 Anderson

1.0 Heineman
1.7 Evans
1.0 Roy or RHP

extras :
6.5 Gallagher
3.4 Armia

9.0 Norris-competitive D
0.9 Guhle
4.9 Matheson
3.5 Savard
1.4 Xhekaj
1.4 Harris or Barron
extra 0.8 Kovacevic

6.5 starting G
1.5 Monty or other backup

82.0 Total versus cap around 86.5

Dvorak and Allen traded off current roster.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I ran the numbers. They work.

2024-25

7.9 Caufield
7.9 Suzuki
2.9 Gurianov

1.0 Slafkovsky
7.9 Dubois
3.4 Dach

1.0 Farrell
1.0 2023 1st rounder
5.5 Anderson

1.0 Heineman
1.7 Evans
1.0 Roy or RHP

extras :
6.5 Gallagher
3.4 Armia

9.0 Norris-competitive D
0.9 Guhle
4.9 Matheson
3.5 Savard
1.4 Xhekaj
1.4 Harris or Barron
extra 0.8 Kovacevic

6.5 starting G
1.5 Monty or other backup

82.0 Total versus cap around 86.5

Dvorak and Allen traded off current roster.

Okay, a number of things:

1. We'll be pretty lucky if Caufield comes in below 8 mil.
2. There's almost no way Dubois comes in below 8 mil. He's going to be looking for something in the Horvat/Larkin range.
3. What "Norris-competitive D" are you thinking of? Because the UFA D available are Montour, Forsling, Hanifin, Pesce and Toews. Anyone else is going to be very expensive to trade for, if they're available at all.
4. What goalie are you looking at there? Because you're either overpaying for a UFA or paying a ransom for better goaltending (which hasn't even been an issue this season).
5. That's a pretty risky cap situation a few seasons after that.
6. Does that really look like a certain 6-10 team in the NHL? Right now that's a group with no P/GP forwards, One top pair caliber D-man (and that might be stretch) and uncertain goaltending.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Okay, a number of things:

1. We'll be pretty lucky if Caufield comes in below 8 mil.
2. There's almost no way Dubois comes in below 8 mil. He's going to be looking for something in the Horvat/Larkin range.
3. What "Norris-competitive D" are you thinking of? Because the UFA D available are Montour, Forsling, Hanifin, Pesce and Toews. Anyone else is going to be very expensive to trade for, if they're available at all.
4. What goalie are you looking at there? Because you're either overpaying for a UFA or paying a ransom for better goaltending (which hasn't even been an issue this season).
5. That's a pretty risky cap situation a few seasons after that.
6. Does that really look like a certain 6-10 team in the NHL? Right now that's a group with no P/GP forwards, One top pair caliber D-man (and that might be stretch) and uncertain goaltending.

It's a cap league.

If you have the money, you will be able to pay talent. Other teams run into cap issues, players become available.

Maybe we find another young Petry for $6.5M who knows?

Maybe Dobes can hold the fort with Monty with at least average goaltending.

Either of those happen, we save money. I also have Gallagher still on the roster, Armia too. They may not both be the case.

OTH, Dubois is pacing 75 points, his best season. If he wants to be here I think we can get him for Suzuki money. But even half a mil more does not break the bank.

Caufield is not worth more than Suzy, but again I will not quibble for a few hundred thou.