HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #81

[ReHabs]

Have to agree. Haven't seen an 80-point player in Montreal since Kovalev. Never mind 2.

No no, that person was saying there would be up to FOUR this year: Caufield, Suzuki, Monahan, and another winger.

There is not a lot of chances but :

The way I see it : When Sutter came in, he really didn't like Monahan's game and gave a lot of the opportunities to Lindholm instead, even when Monahan was not injured.

Plus, the injurie factor that may have slowed him down.

If under St-Louis, he gets icetime with good players and good opportunities. Nothing is out of the question. He already did it and he's only 27 year old.

There is a lot of factor that could have affected his production and injuries is not the only one.

Monahan is coming off hip surgery, he's also had another hip surgery two years ago, and wrist and shoulder injuries. Calgary fans, who had every reason to want his success and resurgence, were dismayed at how badly and meekly he played last year.

I don't think I should need to elaborate or expand on why Monahan hitting 80 pts this season is not happening.

 

[Habs Halifax]

My 'approach' is simply to use common sense and look at the available evidence and the landscape around the NHL. And then by looking at the moves management made this offseason it seems fairly obvious they had no plans to bolster the lineup to try to win a single extra game this season. That's a definitive direction to head in and fine by me but it seems undeniable. Your 'approach' appears to be to ignore most of that and post about how you feel with an 'imo' disclaimer, not really much substance tbh.

Again every single management team in any professional sport will say the exact same thing in every season, "they are there to compete and win games", or some variation of that. Please stop quoting that as some kind of proof, it means nothing. If you can find a single example of a professional sport teams implying they are tanking for a better draft pick please post it.

I suppose anything is possible, we could have Caufield score 50, Allen play lights out and the kids all surprise and we get into the playoffs. Then once you're in the playoffs 'anything can happen'. Didn't we just live through that just recently? If that's the case I guess it's just as likely we win the stanley cup as miss the playoffs . Let's hope this management team is smarter than that, I'm really hoping they are.

Common sense is not so common anymore bud. This is clearly not a tank, tank, tank season with both management and players. They could trip and fall flat on their face but that don't reveal "common sense". This is not a sure shot bottom 3 finish. Far from it.

I'm not saying we make the playoffs. I'm saying making the playoffs has similar probability to finishing bottom 3. Common sense tells me that we finish in the middle of these two predictions.

I think Habs finish 3-8 bottom, ARI and CHI seem to be sure bottom 2 teams, PHI seems very weak, then you‘ve got the group with MTL BUF SJS SEA ANA. I don‘t see how MTL finishes above teams like OTT NJD CBJ which they would need to in order to reach bottom 12. Now every year has its lot of surprise which is the beauty of sports

I won't bet against bottom 3-8 range. I would pick bottom 5-10 but we are talking minuscule gaps in ranges. I think by the end of Oct or Nov, we will be speaking a different tune

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You want them to try to win?

What the f***...yes?!?!?!

I know this team isn't making the playoffs and it’s I know that management accepts that reality. But have you never played a competitive sport? What we shouldn't want is our team constantly getting lit up! What the hell do you think this does to players and the culture? Do you think it was good for Caufield to play under Ducharme and score 1 goal in 30 games because we lost more games?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes it does, particularly on D and in net. You're hoping that TWO rookies play above their heads like vets and help carry the defence. One injury away from an AHL D and two from ECHL. I'm not holding on hope that they excel all season long and avoid any serious injuries when Eddy is already out indefinitely.

You can hope for the best, but I'm expecting this team to be pretty bad in it's current configuration. If they make some substantial changes, I may change my tune, but this is currently a consensus last place team.

The other angle to this is "hoping" several vets have career lows again. Got to look at it from all kinds of different angles to get the best gut feel on where we finish IMO. It's not a consensus last place or bottom 3 team. Just like it's not a consensus to be fighting for a playoff spot. Consensus to me is in the middle of these two predictions.

Lots of negatives heading into last season..
* Short off season where many players were banged up.
* Ducharme as our coach was clearly not the right situation
* Danault walking.
* KK offer sheet/Dvorak trade
* Weber/Price on LTIR
* Several other injuries all throughout the season... almost historic

How we play in Oct/Nov will reveal a lot. Team momentum is a big deal in the NHL and they just didn't have it heading into last season.

 

[ReHabs]

What the f***...yes?!?!?!

I know this team isn't making the playoffs and it’s I know that management accepts that reality. But have you never played a competitive sport? What we shouldn't want is our team constantly getting lit up! What the hell do you think this does to players and the culture? Do you think it was good for Caufield to play under Ducharme and score 1 goal in 30 games because we lost more games?

Okay, you want them to win. What does that have to do with my commentary?

Repeated below:

MSL > Ducharme… upward pressure

Also, it’s likely we won’t have the most man games lost in the NHL as we did last year, even more upward pressure on pt-totals.

Finally, too many players had awful season — if there is a regression it will be toward better performances and results.

On the other hand, many adequate players were jettisoned so that’s downward pressure.

I’m not sure where we will end up but what I want is to have options available to us in case Allen does perform and becomes valuable on the trade market. Extending him at this point just removes options doesn’t help.

I think the Habs will win at a higher rate than they did overall last year for the reasons argued above. Therefore, if the Habs were out of the playoffs they would want to sell at the deadline -- having Allen be a pending UFA allows the Habs to have the option to sell him to a needy contender. And if there is no market for him, that's fine -- keep him.

 

[durojean]

No no, that person was saying there would be up to FOUR this year: Caufield, Suzuki, Monahan, and another winger.


Monahan is coming off hip surgery, he's also had another hip surgery two years ago, and wrist and shoulder injuries. Calgary fans, who had every reason to want his success and resurgence, were dismayed at how badly and meekly he played last year.

I don't think I should need to elaborate or expand on why Monahan hitting 80 pts this season is not happening.

But wouldn't it feel good to root for an underdog ?

My point is : It's not like the talent and the vision isn't there. He already did it once. He did say it's been a long time since he felt that good.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Okay, you want them to win. What does that have to do with my commentary?

Repeated below:


I think the Habs will win at a higher rate than they did overall last year for the reasons argued above. Therefore, if the Habs were out of the playoffs they would want to sell at the deadline -- having Allen be a pending UFA allows the Habs to have the option to sell him to a needy contender. And if there is no market for him, that's fine -- keep him.

The Montreal Canadiens would need a goaltender if they sell Allen. They can't just play Montembeault for two months and watch their young players get lit up after every mistake. That would be an incredibly stupid mistake and I'm not surprised at all that competent people like HuGo are looking to extend Allen instead of trading him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You want them to try to win?

Yes, I want them to try to win like they did with MSL as our coach. Of course they will loose more than the win but is far from a race for Bedard chase. Could be but that's not the plan heading in. Reality. This is not some Coyotes tank roster.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Lost in all this tank fetishization and loser mentality is that we should want the Canadiens to win games. We're being led by really young players. If we're winning games, all it means is that we're further along than we thought. My God people here really have no vision.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Montreal Canadiens would need a goaltender if they sell Allen. They can't just play Montembeault for two months and watch their young players get lit up after every mistake. That would be an incredibly stupid mistake and I'm not surprised at all that competent people like HuGo are looking to extend Allen instead of trading him.

I read they they are trying to extend Allen but he wants more term than what HuGo are offering. It's logical that HuGo want Allen around for a few more years where Allen is willing to bet on himself if he don't get his preferred term. I'm sure they continue to talk and Allen is not being shopped. If the extension falls through, there is a possibility he is traded at the deadline.

 

[DAChampion]

Lost in all this tank fetishization and loser mentality is that we should want the Canadiens to win games. We're being led by really young players. If we're winning games, all it means is that we're further along than we thought. My God people here really have no vision.

I agree with you. I don't see the team deliberately losing games, and I find that idea preposterous.

What I think is likely to happen is that the team will be mediocre at best, and by midseason they'll be sellers rather than buyers, and encouraging players to get any possible required surgeries earlier rather than later.

Because the team has below average D, below average goaltending, no top line, and is in a strong division.

 

[ReHabs]

The Montreal Canadiens would need a goaltender if they sell Allen. They can't just play Montembeault for two months and watch their young players get lit up after every mistake. That would be an incredibly stupid mistake and I'm not surprised at all that competent people like HuGo are looking to extend Allen instead of trading him.

Yes, I want them to try to win like they did with MSL as our coach. Of course they will loose more than the win but is far from a race for Bedard chase. Could be but that's not the plan heading in. Reality. This is not some Coyotes tank roster.

With this defence there is no way the team won't be fishing pucks out of the net anyway.

The topic was Jake Allen. If you're dead set on selling Allen at the deadline (???) then okay, stand your ground. I'm simply saying it's not worth extending him right now, he doesn't move the needle in any way.

 

[Draft]

We saw everything go wrong last year, but there's a chance we see some things go right this season. I think the team will sink or swim based on offensive production given that our back end is quite weak. It's a whole other story if Guhle, Barron, Harris, Primeau or Montembault can play at a starter/top-4 level.

I know it hasn't happened for us in a long time, but sometimes prospects pan out how you planned

 

[Runner77]

I agree with you. I don't see the team deliberately losing games, and I find that idea preposterous.

What I think is likely to happen is that the team will be mediocre at best, and by midseason they'll be sellers rather than buyers, and encouraging players to get any possible required surgeries earlier rather than later.

Because the team has below average D, below average goaltending, no top line, and is in a strong division.

Exactly. They’re going to lose games for lack of talent, not intentionally.

Just look at the end of last season. The Habs were playing to win til the last game. Were it not for some timely Yotes losses, they would have never finished last.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

With this defence there is no way the team won't be fishing pucks out of the net anyway.

The topic was Jake Allen. If you're dead set on selling Allen at the deadline (???) then okay, stand your ground. I'm simply saying it's not worth extending him right now, he doesn't move the needle in any way.

That doesn't mean you don't try to prevent it anyways! What in the world are you on about? 'Oh, we're going to suck anyways, might as well trade the only decent goalie we have for a pick!'

What kind of loser mentality is that?

 

[Vachon23]

 

[ReHabs]

That doesn't mean you don't try to prevent it anyways! What in the world are you on about? 'Oh, we're going to suck anyways, might as well trade the only decent goalie we have for a pick!'

What kind of loser mentality is that?

You’ve never heard of selling assets at the trade deadline?

Is this really a new concept for you or are you just now pretending to be dense to try to save face?

 

[Sterling Archer]

That's what I've been saying for weeks now.

Habs need to take advantage of their waiver placement as e have first dibs. I'd be shocked if they didn't pick up one or even two players from waivers. HuGo just need to make space one way or another.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Honestly, I wouldnt be all that surprised to see one or two of our vets end up on the wire. HuGo have been pretty gutsy and unortodox up to now.

 

[Runner77]

There are probably going to be a lot of bloated contracts that no one will be able to afford. Plus, it’s not just fitting whoever is added under the cap, it’s also the roster limit.

I don’t think teams are going to be able to slip by an obscure talent as HuGo have shown to be knowledgeable enough to take advantage.

 

[morhilane]

Honestly, I wouldnt be all that surprised to see one or two of our vets end up on the wire. HuGo have been pretty gutsy and unortodox up to now.

It will happen if he can't trade them. The question is who will it be, since he has to move forwards once Monahan/Suzuki/Byron are cleared to play. It's not even to open a spot for a prospect.

It also means that I really doubt Hughes will pick players on waivers. The other teams will try to trade what is tradable before dumping them on waivers and Hughes would be happy to swap a vet forward for a vet RD.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You’ve never heard of selling assets at the trade deadline?

Is this really a new concept for you or are you just now pretending to be dense to try to save face?

Yeah, there's also a world of difference between selling a winger and selling your starting goalie.

You can't be that daft can you?

 

[ReHabs]

Yeah, there's also a world of difference between selling a winger and selling your starting goalie.

You can't be that daft can you?

The Habs don't have a starting goalie, Allen was the backup until Price's career was suddenly ended. Allen isn't any good team's starting goalie. He is a pending UFA and the Habs, if they're out of the playoff picture, would be foolish not to sell him if there's an audience.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That doesn't mean you don't try to prevent it anyways! What in the world are you on about? 'Oh, we're going to suck anyways, might as well trade the only decent goalie we have for a pick!'

What kind of loser mentality is that?

I have no issue with Allen being extended for 1-2 years more at around $2.5M. This way, the contract is tradeable to a team looking for a decent backup that does not cost too much.

Three years at $2M per year might also be ok.

However, something like 3 years times $3.25M is way too much and too long.

There is also no rush. Hughes could see how Jake is playing before making a commitment.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

There is not a lot of chances but :

The way I see it : When Sutter came in, he really didn't like Monahan's game and gave a lot of the opportunities to Lindholm instead, even when Monahan was not injured.

Plus, the injurie factor that may have slowed him down.

If under St-Louis, he gets icetime with good players and good opportunities. Nothing is out of the question. He already did it and he's only 27 year old.

There is a lot of factor that could have affected his production and injuries is not the only one.

No, that’s about 98% of his issue.

This article breaks it down pretty nicely:

Breaking down Sean Monahan's injury history and what happens next - The Win Column

The Calgary Flames have officially shutdown Sean Monahan for the 2021–22 season as he goes in for hip surgery and subsequent rehabilitation in advance of next year. This is not his first surgery, having not played a complete season since 2016–17 campaign. These injuries have clearly taken a toll...

thewincolumn.ca

He’s been declining every year for awhile. Injuries, surgeries and Father Time being the main issues. He’s not going to suddenly score 80 points, especially when he only did that one time, in a career year, on a much better team than the Habs (5 players had over 70 points that year for the Flames). If we are lucky, he can score 30 or so points, and we can move him at the deadline. 80 points is absurd.