HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[417]

I can't see Dubois and Huberdeau landing in Montreal over the next 12-24 months.

One or the other, not both.

I can definitely see the Habs trying to acquire Dubois over the next 12 months at a price they are comfortable paying (which means the Jets won't trade him to the Habs) and then eventually moving on next summer when Huberdeau goes to free agency.

At that point, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Habs throw a bag at Huberdeau and perhaps even the captaincy.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I was just asking questions cause you were talking about your plan being the right one?

Yzerman point was about the patience narrative. I didn't say you were talking about Yzerman but you did bring up the patience narrative on sticking to a plan. I think Yzerman and the Wings are a good comparable and he just went on a spending spree that likely hurts his Bedard chances.

And no, I didn't read the entire chain of posts. After reading your reply, I still don't know where you are coming from. I only see complaining.

So are you against signing Huberdeau and trading for Dubois if the price is right? I can only assume so but now you are saying you are not against signing players? Please clarify

I said if a player like Huberdeau wants to come here you bring him in. I don’t feel the same way about PLD. I’m all for bringing in players as long as you believe in the players. Huberdeau is a game changer, PLD isn’t. My position has never been about tanking for years, so your posts are really strange.

 

[waitin425]

If Slaf turns into who we think he can... that top 6 would be contender level. Then combine that with Farrell and Dach reaching potential while Gallagher rebounds?

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Huberdeau / Dubois / Anderson
Farrell / Dach / Gallagher
Pitlick / Evans / Roy

We can then focus on drafting more D in the coming drafts. Is Guhle, Barron, Harris, Mailloux, and others enough? Not sure but we will know more after this next season.



It's not in terms of quality but it is in terms of not taking for Bedard which is the patience narrative point I'm making. I can't control your comprehension and I won't be held responsible for it either

Love it....Hubs and Slaf are interchangeable. Slaf will be a puck protection monster creating time and space for whoever he is paired with. Dubois is a goal scorer and has almost reached 30 goals twice in his career. With Huburdeau on his wing....I would hazard a guess that he approaches 35-40 goals. Those two top lines are build really well.

1 forechecker - Slaf and Anderson
1 playmaker - Suzuki and Hubs
1 goal scorer - CC and Dubois.

That third line would also be dangerous with weaker matchups.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed. There has got to be protection for the player and the team built in.

Hubs wants a fair contract that affords him security for his future.

Habs want a fair contract that doesn't cripple them if Hubs begins his slide early. I like the 7 year 9 mil contract beginning next summer at age 30. Huburdeau is a great playmaker. On Suzuki and Caufield's wing he makes them much better.

I'd be happy with the below production.

Year 1 - 85-95 points
Year 2 - 85-95 points
Year 3 - 85-95 points
Year 4 - 75-85 points
Year 5 - 65-75 points
Year 6 - 65-75 points
Year 7 - 55-65 points

I could live with that cap hit and above production.

It's not that difficult to project our cap structure forward and the Habs management would be able to do this for us more accurately

Not all those youth will turn into who we think they will be but some will. All we need to do is have a 1/3 or 1/4 batting average.

I like the timing of how this is shaping up. Growing cap with expiring contracts and guys like Huberdeau and Dubois considering the Habs and our direction. Then combine that with ELC filtering in our roster. Not taking advantage of this because we think tanking for 5 more years is better is the dumb part.

 

[SlafySZN]

If Slaf turns into who we think he can... that top 6 would be contender level. Then combine that with Farrell and Dach reaching potential while Gallagher rebounds?

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Huberdeau / Dubois / Anderson
Farrell / Dach / Gallagher
Pitlick / Evans / Roy

We can then focus on drafting more D in the coming drafts. Is Guhle, Barron, Harris, Mailloux, and others enough? Not sure but we will know more after this next season.



It's not in terms of quality but it is in terms of not tanking for Bedard which is the patience narrative point I'm making. I can't control your comprehension and I won't be held responsible for it either

They drafted 6 years in the top 10… is it not being patient? How is it the same as us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I said if a player like Huberdeau wants to come here you bring him in. I don’t feel the same way about PLD. I’m all for bringing in players as long as you believe in the players. Huberdeau is a game changer, PLD isn’t. My position has never been about tanking for years, so your posts are really strange.

Thanks for clarifying. I prefer to bring both in if we can project our cap structure. Dubois for his prime years and Huberdeau for his 30-36 years. Personally, I value both their games and at the points of their careers. I think you are undervaluing Dubois for his prime. Probably similar to Anderson type evaluation.

How can you not like this forward group? It creates a situation where we can focus on drafting more D to improve on Guhle, Barron, Harris, Mailloux, Hutson, etc.

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Huberdeau / Dubois / Anderson
Farell / Dach / Gallagher
Pitlick / Evans / Roy
Heineman, Ylonen, Mysak, Mesar

They drafted 6 years in the top 10… is it not being patient? How is it the same as us.

Is their young core better than the Habs? Suzuki and under? The point here is wanting more patience vs signing guys like Huberdeau and Dubois. Yzerman can be criticized for signing guys that hurts his Bedard chances and you said it yourself, it's not the same kind of signings as Huberdeau and Dubois

The point here (to be clear) is Yzerman is more open to failing with his plan vs the Habs with ours. Guys he signed this past summer vs the Habs signing Huberdeau and a possible sign/trade for Dubois.

More patience required for Yzerman even if he drafted in the top 10 for 6 years? That's the point and it just goes to show how hard it is to tank/rebuild and exit that with contending pieces

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Ill play.

I agree.....year 1 considering that 2 years ago we were in the Cup Final.

Honest question though. What is you definition of a rebuild? I kind of take it as a 4-6 year process where you purge the old guard and usher in the new via high end draft picks.

For arguments sake...let's say we grab PLD in the next two years. This would be our young rebuilt core moving forward.....

PLD - 2016 3rd overall pick (conservatively still a top 10 in redrafts)
Suzuki - 2017 13th overall pick (probably top 5, but conservatively top 10 in redrafts)
Caufield - 2019 15th overall pick (probably top 5, but conservatively top 10 in redrafts)
Guhle - 2020 16th overall pick (seems about right at this point and too early to tell...but trending like a 1st rounder)
Barron - 2020 25th overall pick (seems about right at this point and too early to tell...but trending like a 1st rounder)
Mailloux - 2021 31st overall pick (far too early too tell if he climbs in redrafts or falls)
Slafkovsky - 2022 1st overall (need a star here)
Mesar - 2022 26th (too early to tell)
Hutson - 2022 2nd round pick----Massive BOOM or bust

My point in posting all this, is if we were a team in 2016 starting our rebuild and we drafted those players above, we would be extremely happy. We would be calling for some quality depth and veterans to fill out our lineup.

Admittedly...there are no Superstars in that lineup...yet....but that is a damn good lineup.

Above we have 3 x top 10 players (conservatively) in their draft. 2 x NHL top 4 defencemen in Guhle and Barron. 1 complete question mark in Mailloux. And....two potential Superstars in Slafkovsky and Hutson. This doesn't include Roy and/or Farrell...who both have NHL potential.

In 2023 we add two more 1st rounders to our mix in a very deep draft. If we get one of Bedard, Michkov or Fantilli....that is yet another potential Superstar.

The rebuild my friend...when looking at it this way....is nearing it's conclusion. Huburdeau could totally be worth it as our veteran add if we can somehow think of a way to circle back to the start of my post and purge the old guard.

My dream for 2023 draft is an absolute grand slam......one of Bedard, Michkov or Fantilli with one pick.....and Cameron Allen with the other pick.

This a good post in the positive point of view.

 

[waitin425]

It's not that difficult to project our cap structure forward and the Habs management would be able to do this for us more accurately

Not all those youth will turn into who we think they will be but some will. All we need to do is have a 1/3 or 1/4 batting average.

I like the timing of how this is shaping up. Growing cap with expiring contracts and guys like Huberdeau and Dubois considering the Habs and our direction. Then combine that with ELC filtering in our roster. Not taking advantage of this because we think tanking for 5 more years is better is the dumb part.

I posted this the other day. The constant pipeline of ELC's to bridge contracts to long term contracts should be the plan for any franchise.

A vision or road map for the future is so important. I think HUGO are setting us up that way.
It is the way the Rangers are currently set up. It is the way Tampa has created longevity.

The alternative is the Vegas style of GMing...or the Toronto style of GMing. If they don't win when they are going for it, they are going to crash hard. Toronto has nothing set up in 7 years. All they care about is the now. If they don't win now....they are in for a long tough ride back to relevance in about 7 years.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Thanks for clarifying. I prefer to bring both in if we can project our cap structure. Dubois for his prime years and Huberdeau for his 30-36 years. Personally, I value both their games and at the points of their careers. I think you are undervaluing Dubois for his prime. Probably similar to Anderson type evaluation.

How can you not like this forward group? It creates a situation where we can focus on drafting more D to improve on Guhle, Barron, Harris, Mailloux, Hutson, etc.

Slaf / Suzuki / Caufield
Huberdeau / Dubois / Anderson
Farell / Dach / Gallagher
Pitlick / Evans / Roy
Heineman, Ylonen, Mysak, Mesar

I don’t draft by position either. I think that is a huge mistake. By the time these guys mature enough to play a pro game our needs may shift 2-3 times. I am not ready to pencil in Farrell for anything. Yeah it’s a good group, but I’m not crazy about Dubois. If he can be had for minimal, sure, but he’s not someone I add significant futures for with our current roster makeup. He doesn’t move the needle for me. I’d rather bet on the futures.

 

[NewEraGM]

Look at what Toronto did with Tavares and what kind of jam they are in now. And they were further along in the rebuild than us. Next year is not the time to sign a 30 years UFA to a 10M contract!

 

[Ozmodiar]

How our cap space would look with Dubois and Huberdeau and without Dvorak, Hoffman, Drouin, Dadonov, Byron, Armia, & Allen.

I honestly don't see big issues with the cap and it's going to grow a lot for the 24/25 season. We will also find out what Price can do this year and we will know if he can still play or if he is on LTIR. If he is on LTIR, that's a lot more cap space we can use. If he is not, that means he can still play and there is value there.

If Dubois wants to come to the Habs for $7.5M and Huberdeau wants to come for $9M max, I'm not saying no to them. Add them in the mix to Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Anderson, Farell, Roy and others and the forward group is solid. Then we see how good Guhle, Harris, Barron, Mailloux and others are on the back end.

A waive of the magic wand to get rid of the undesirable contracts is a nice thought, but if you do that and spend the money right away, there’s little flexibility going forward.

In this scenario, with Gallagher and Anderson still on the books, they’d have to find money to:
- sign Slaf, post ELC
- sign 2023 1st (if top 5), post ELC
- extend Dach
- upgrade defense

The rising Cap won’t cut it.

If they’re going to add Huberdeau, they should do so after they:
- can sign him as a free agent
- tank another season
- know where they’re drafting next year
- know Price’s status, with certainty

If they pick top 5 next year and acquire PLD, they won’t even need Huberdeau.

PLD - Suzuki- caufield
Slaf - Dvorsky (2023 top 5) - Mesar
Farrell- Dach - Anderson
Heineman - Evans - Gallagher

I’d say that would be time to focus on the D.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I posted this the other day. The constant pipeline of ELC's to bridge contracts to long term contracts should be the plan for any franchise.

A vision or road map for the future is so important. I think HUGO are setting us up that way.
It is the way the Rangers are currently set up. It is the way Tampa has created longevity.

The alternative is the Vegas style of GMing...or the Toronto style of GMing. If they don't win when they are going for it, they are going to crash hard. Toronto has nothing set up in 7 years. All they care about is the now. If they don't win now....they are in for a long tough ride back to relevance in about 7 years.

Leafs pool after their 4 top 10 picks (Rielly, Nylander, Marner, Matthews) was not good enough and then they signed Tavares.

Show me the list of drafted players on their roster turning the needle for them? The issue with the Leafs signing Tavares is where are the ELC like Point, Cirrelli, Sergachev?

Same with Vegas. It's ok to spend cap but you need those young ELC providing value as well. If not, you are playing a dangerous game like Dubus trying to find $1M players to fill holes.

 

[Habs Halifax]

A waive of the magic wand to get rid of the undesirable contracts is a nice thought, but if you do that and spend the money right away, there’s little flexibility going forward.

In this scenario, with Gallagher and Anderson still on the books, they’d have to find money to:
- sign Slaf, post ELC
- sign 2023 1st (if top 5), post ELC
- extend Dach
- upgrade defense

The rising Cap won’t cut it.

If they’re going to add Huberdeau, they should do so after they:
- can sign him as a free agent
- tank another season
- know where they’re drafting next year
- know Price’s status, with certainty

If they pick top 5 next year and acquire PLD, they won’t even need Huberdeau.

PLD - Suzuki- caufield
Slaf - Dvorsky (2023 top 5) - Mesar
Farrell- Dach - Anderson
Heineman - Evans - Gallagher

I’d say that would be time to focus on the D.

You're waiving your own magic wand to not make it work too. Fair is fair and it works two ways.

I'm using the GM armchair tool. You're using text in a post with don't capture all the context.

A rising cap will do it. I showed you a $83.5M salary cap for 23/24 and the NHLPA outstanding balance is being paid off ahead of schedule. The cap for 24/25 is going to be closer to $90M than you realize today. I've been saying it for more than a year now where posters last year disagreed big time and after Bettman's report this year, I'm tracking to be more closer to the truth than others in their conservative ways. Open your eyes to the contracts being awarded in the last two season and you will see what the players agent sees.

The only issues the Habs have is cap space this year. After this year, the flexibility shifts for next year and it gets better with a growing cap.

The roster I posted was for 23/24. That's after this next season and I also talked about Price too. You're talking about some of the same things I said and trying to use it against me. Weird

 

[Paddy17]

For now, we should stay the course and keep working on clearing cap space without giving players away, since we don't need to clear at all cost.

At the end of next season, things should be a lot clearer as to the course of action.

- We'll find out who we drafted
- Cap room clears with Drouin, Dadonov and Byron, at minimum
- Clarification on the Price situation
- Clarification on the status of Huberdeau and PLD.

There's no hurry in rushing head first into things when the time is not right.

 

[Ozmodiar]

You're waiving your own magic wand to not make it work too. Fair is fair and it works two ways.

I'm using the GM armchair tool. You're using text in a post with don't capture all the context.

A rising cap will do it. I showed you a $83.5M salary cap for 23/24 and the NHLPA outstanding balance is being paid off ahead of schedule. The cap for 24/25 is going to be closer to $90M than you realize today. I've been saying it for more than a year now where posters last year disagreed big time and after Bettman's report this year, I'm tracking to be more closer to the truth than others in their conservative ways.

The only issues the Habs have is cap space this year. After this year, the flexibility shifts for next year and it gets better with a growing cap.

The roster I posted was for 23/24. That's after this next season and I also talked about Price too. You're talking about some of the same things I said and trying to use it against me. Weird

The proposal spends money you don’t know is there. Also, the next draft and Price’s status are game changers.

Easy for you to guess and gamble with the unknowns, but Hughes won’t do it. He’ll be patient and methodical.

 

[Habs Halifax]

For now, we should stay the course and keep working on clearing cap space without giving players away, since we don't need to clear at all cost.

At the end of next season, things should be a lot clearer as to the course of action.

- We'll find out who we drafted
- Cap room clears with Drouin, Dadonov and Byron, at minimum
- Clarification on the Price situation
- Clarification on the status of Huberdeau and PLD.

There's no hurry in rushing head first into things when the time is not right.

I think we all agree but I think posters are getting tied in a knot about stupid stuff.

1) Dubois trade? Yes if the price is something we can afford and the salary in matches salary out. Also comes with an extension in place and that has to be Suzuki or under type long term deal. However, the answer is no if the asking price is too much. Simple as that

2) Huberdeau signing next summer? A lot will happen from now till then. Habs will learn more about our team this season and then we have a better idea of our cap structure and also what the future salary caps will be.
You only make the move if it makes sense. Timing is everything but if we want to talk about things today, people need to chill cause it's not all happening now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The proposal spends money you don’t know is there. Also, the next draft and Price’s status are game changers.

Easy for you to guess and gamble with the unknowns, but Hughes won’t do it. He’ll be patient and methodical.

I won't spend the money if I know it's there though. Go away with the nit picks. It's not a proposal BTW, it's a cap projection situation and one of many we should do to see how risky it can be. I'm not going to be able to capture 10 different models of cap projections for you. You will have to do your own and post it where I can then nit pick stupid stuff like you are now.

I already talked about Price. We agree there. You're making it sound like you are making this point when I said it before you bud and you're just echoing it.

I'm not taking easy guesses and gambles. I'm projecting cap structure and expiring contracts forward. It would be dumb not too. The salary cap is going to skyrocket and next summer (before we possibly sign Huberdeau), we will know more (I've talked about this too). I'm not singing him today, I'm signing him next summer and we have more information. So please drop the stupid nit pick narratives cause it was a cap projection and it's dumb not to do it. Let me guess, you rather not project it forward cause it's impossible and a waste of time? That's stupid

In the Dubois trade, I'm not making the trade if they don't take Dvorak and Armia and the futures are something like Panthers 1st and Kidney. You can continue to nit pick small stupid stuff but if they say no, I'm not making the trade. Salary in needs to match salary out.

The past does not equal the future. We have new management and a youth core build up better than we have seen in many years.

 

[McGees]

 

[salbutera]

Look at what Toronto did with Tavares and what kind of jam they are in now. And they were further along in the rebuild than us. Next year is not the time to sign a 30 years UFA to a 10M contract!

Gorton clearly stated last week this will not be a strip down to the studs and start over rebuild - it’s clear, it’ll be a NYR blueprint Gorton’s always had in mind and sold to Molson as “the plan”

 

[Guy Larose]

Gorton clearly stated last week this will not be a strip down to the studs and start over rebuild - it’s clear, it’ll be a NYR blueprint Gorton’s always had in mind and sold to Molson as “the plan”

People have their own narrative on this board no matter what the actual facts are and they keep repeating them.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don’t draft by position either. I think that is a huge mistake. By the time these guys mature enough to play a pro game our needs may shift 2-3 times. I am not ready to pencil in Farrell for anything. Yeah it’s a good group, but I’m not crazy about Dubois. If he can be had for minimal, sure, but he’s not someone I add significant futures for with our current roster makeup. He doesn’t move the needle for me. I’d rather bet on the futures.

I agree you take BPA but in many cases, BPA does not exist and there are waives of talent. Many teams do this and the Devils just did by taking Nemec. To them, there was not BPA and they ended up with going with team need. They clearly had their eyes on one of Slaf or Nemec and though the top 4 was a waive of talent.

Targeting D does not mean you bypass someone who is clearly ranked higher and the BPA. But the way you present your case, you make it sound like the rankings from 1-32 is defined in a way where you know what BPA is all the way through. It's not like that in many areas of the draft.

I'd let the Jets drown with Dubois. The offer is salary in needs to match salary out. Dvorak and Armia fit IMO. Then I'd offer Panthers 1st and Kidney. It's a Trouba offer within flat cap years factored in. Take it or leave it. I'm not trading anything more valuable than the Panthers 1st and Kidney pieces.

We can look at Dubois at a later date if the Jets think they want Suzuki. Let them drown but make no mistake, Dubois is a great piece to add. I get the feeling you are low on him like you an others are on Anderson. Good luck finding pieces like this after the rebuild.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Gorton clearly stated last week this will not be a strip down to the studs and start over rebuild - it’s clear, it’ll be a NYR blueprint Gorton’s always had in mind and sold to Molson as “the plan”

There is a yawning Chasm between stripping it down to the studs and start over rebuild and completely ignoring the cap, aging curves and going for it after one season of rebuilding.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I agree you take BPA but in many cases, BPA does not exist and there are waives of talent. Many teams do this and the Devils just did by taking Nemec. To them, there was not BPA and they ended up with going with team need. They clearly had their eyes on one of Slaf or Nemec and though the top 4 was a waive of talent.

Targeting D does not mean you bypass someone who is clearly ranked higher and the BPA. But the way you present your case, you make it sound like the rankings from 1-32 is defined in a way where you know what BPA is all the way through. It's not like that in many areas of the draft.

I'd let the Jets drown with Dubois. The offer is salary in needs to match salary out. Dvorak and Armia fit IMO. Then I'd offer Panthers 1st and Kidney. It's a Trouba offer within flat cap years factored in. Take it or leave it. I'm not trading anything more valuable than the Panthers 1st and Kidney pieces.

We can look at Dubois at a later date if the Jets think they want Suzuki. Let them drown but make no mistake, Dubois is a great piece to add. I get the feeling you are low on him like you an others are on Anderson. Good luck finding pieces like this after the rebuild.

Once again, I never spoke on Anderson. I feel you run out of arguments and just lump everyone in the same group. Anderson isn’t sone crazy piece to a winning team or anything, but he’s the least of our problems. I’m not in a hurry to move Josh, but if someone gives me an overpayment, I take it.

 

[schwang26]

People have their own narrative on this board no matter what the actual facts are and they keep repeating them.

Honestly though, anyone over 25 or 26 probably isn't sticking around. The odds that they keep those guys are slim, so isn't it actually stripping things down? The only ones who MAY be safe would be Edmundson, maybe Savard and or Wideman. For the forward group, the oldest player I see them keeping is Anderson. So ya, it is pretty much a tear down.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

There is too much dead cap space
With the current roster and Hughes won’t be doing much of anything if he doesn’t find a way to move some out. There is a ton of work to do.