HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #79

[BigDaddyLurch]

No because that was a perfect reasonable contract and the term weren’t ideal but still ok… the way to do it is how Carolina played it (although if KK would have been willing to resign in MTL I think we would have matched) high salary for one year and work out a long term deal.

...the offersheet was ridiculously low for a player the caliber of Aho and it was reliant on Carolina being too cheap to deal with the upfront money owed on it...a stupid gamble that he made even worse with the loss of KK/trading MORE than we got for losing KK for Dvorak...tripling down on moronic, the Bargain Bin Way...

 

[Beendair Donedat]

...the offersheet was ridiculously low for a player the caliber of Aho and it was reliant on Carolina being too cheap to deal with the upfront money owed on it...a stupid gamble that he made even worse with the loss of KK/trading MORE than we got for losing KK for Dvorak...tripling down on moronic, the Bargain Bin Way...

You have to admire his consistency though.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Potential Blockbuster Trade Proposal

This is very complicated and will very likely never happen, but I was thinkihg of a way to accelerate the Habs rebuild by using Arizona's desire for young players and picks combined with its willingness to take poor contracts as well. I also excluded as potential players offered anyone who has a NTC clause (Price, Anderson, Petry, Edmundson, Gallagher, Dadonov, Drouin)

Building blocks:
Chycrun (minute-eating 1st rounder from Sergachev's year) 3 yrs left at $4.6M
vs
2023 1st rounder (our lower one) OR Dvorak OR Allen OR Evans OR Primeau
plus 2023 4th round pick from Vegas OR Wideman
plus 2023 5th round pick from Calgary

Andrew Ladd (1 year cap dump at $5M)
vs
Paul Byron (1 year cap dump at $3.4M, salary only $2.8M)

Hoffman
and one of
Poehling or Pezzetta or Leskinen

Savard and one of
Ylonen or RHP or Schueneman or Bowie

Armia and any **two prospects or signed players not listed above nor excluded as per below two conditions:
a. not drafted or otherwise acquired this year
b. and not Suzuki, Caufield and Dach, Barron, Harris and Guhle, Farrell and Dobes
**note that if Joshua Roy is picked, then no other prospect can be picked

I don't know if that is enough for Arizona, but they can get a first rounder, two mid-round picks and three prospects in addition to five useful NHL players three of whom may just be somewhat overpaid. They also save money on the exchange of cap dumps.

The Habs clear all their long-term bad contracts except for Price and Gallagher, and once this season ends, will have a boatload of cap space even with Price and Gallagher on the books. They could also still trade Petry, Edmundson, Dvorak or Anderson for value without a gun to their heads due to the cap.

Wild and highly unlikely but fun exercise in categorizing our roster, contracts and Reserve list.

 

[Archijerej]

we aren't competing, so why waste assets??

Because getting a player you've identified as part of your future core is not wasting assets.

It's rebuilding.

 

[Archijerej]

The Dach trade would make no sense if they thought they could land PLD.

Why is that?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Because getting a player you've identified as part of your future core is not wasting assets.

It's rebuilding.

I don't view Dubois as a core player. We can definitely go get him, but it feels premature to me. At the deadline or draft next year makes more sense, timing wise, IMO.

 

[Archijerej]

I don't view Dubois as a core player. We can definitely go get him, but it feels premature to me. At the deadline or draft next year makes more sense, timing wise, IMO.

How come? Even if you don't see him as a top line center, a #2C is usually still a part of the core when laying out a template for building a team. Especially if he's in the 21-40 range leaguewide, which is how I would rank Dubois at his best.

What is a core? I'd say it's your #1 goalie, two of your best defencemen, two of your best centermen + one or two other forwards. This may vary, of course. Some teams have won having more of a journeyman types in some of those roles (goalie, #2C, for example), but the general idea is sound I think. Now, if you want to make a distinction for a micro core of say, 2-3 players, then yeah, Dubois is likely not that, but I doubt anyone is advocating paying the price equal to a top-3 player on a contending team.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don't view Dubois as a core player. We can definitely go get him, but it feels premature to me. At the deadline or draft next year makes more sense, timing wise, IMO.

You don't feel like he is worth going after. Got it. Just stop there because he will not be available in 1 year nor two. Whoever trades for him will sign him for 6-7 years. It's not "premature", it's now or forget it. Either way is fine with me.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I'd much rather have a legit top 4 PMD over PLD, if we can get both fine but gunna burn up a few assets to get Dubois.

 

[Archijerej]

I'd much rather have a legit top 4 PMD over PLD, if we can get both fine but gunna burn up a few assets to get Dubois.

I'd rather have both. Unfortunately, it's hard to build a team in less than a year.

 

[Adam Michaels]

No need to rush trading anyone. So that could be a positive. You're not stuck a la Vegas where you have to give up valuable assets just to get rid of them.

You have guys with term.

For Petry, while he wants out, he did say he enjoyed playing for MSL. So that could be a motivation.

I think Petry's fate is determined by Klingberg's. With Brent Burns traded, once Klingberg is signed, a team that struck out on both could turn to Montreal.

But Habs don't need to move Petry. If the offers are underwhelming, then he starts the year with the Habs.

 

[NotProkofievian]

How come? Even if you don't see him as a top line center, a #2C is usually still a part of the core when laying out a template for building a team. Especially if he's in the 21-40 range leaguewide, which is how I would rank Dubois at his best.

What is a core? I'd say it's your #1 goalie, two of your best defencemen, two of your best centermen + one or two other forwards. This may vary, of course. Some teams have won having more of a journeyman types in some of those roles (goalie, #2C, for example), but the general idea is sound I think. Now, if you want to make a distinction for a micro core of say, 2-3 players, then yeah, Dubois is likely not that, but I doubt anyone is advocating paying the price equal to a top-3 player on a contending team.

Dubois is the kind of player who would have been considered ''core'' for us in the dark days (the last 20 years lol). He's the kind of guy that you want to add to your core to push you over the top, like a Kadri. He needs to be your 4th or 5th best forward. If everything goes well with Caufield, Suzuki, and Slafkovsky, he may well be our 4th best forward, but note the wording there. If everything goes well, he might be our 4th best. Things might not go well, and he's our 3rd or 2nd best forward. The main prize this year isn't PLD, it's a top draft pick.

If we can find a way to do both, and I think we can, I would prefer that. Because then the situation becomes ''if everything goes well, he's our 6th best forward, and we're cooking with gas.''

 

[NotProkofievian]

You don't feel like he is worth going after. Got it. Just stop there because he will not be available in 1 year nor two. Whoever trades for him will sign him for 6-7 years. It's not "premature", it's now or forget it. Either way is fine with me.

I think he is worth going after, I just think there's an aspect of timing at play. I will note that some of the worst decisions I ever made were done in a rush, because it was ''now or forget it.'' I think you'll find that this is usually not the case.

 

[blarneylad]

Would not Anderson be involved for a Dubois trade. Signed with term. Plus Habs need the cap space if acquiring Dubois.

Anderson, Dvorak, prospect - Roy/Kidney/Mailloux.

They get a center and a power forward.

 

[Archijerej]

Dubois is the kind of player who would have been considered ''core'' for us in the dark days (the last 20 years lol)

When did we have a player of Dubois' quality as our #2C?

It's also not certain he has hit his hard ceiling

He needs to be your 4th or 5th best forward.

5th is excessive. How many cup winners in the last decade had 4 forwards better than Dubois? I'd say he's your 3rd or 4th best forward on a contender.

The main prize this year isn't PLD, it's a top draft pick.

I agree he's not in your McKinnon/Rantanen, Kucherov/Point or Kane/Toews category. If we swap him for Dvorak as part of the deal, though, how much higher in the standings are we going to finish? No one wants to trade our pick for him.

 

[salbutera]

With Johnny hockey bailing, wonder if Cgy would have interest in Gallagher for Monahan swap?

Especially if they’re able to land Kadri…

 

[NotProkofievian]

When did we have a player of Dubois' quality as our #2C?

It's also not certain he has hit his hard ceiling



5th is excessive. How many cup winners in the last decade had 4 forwards better than Dubois? I'd say he's your 3rd or 4th best forward on a contender.



I agree he's not in your McKinnon/Rantanen, Kucherov/Point or Kane/Toews category. If we swap him for Dvorak as part of the deal, though, how much higher in the standings are we going to finish? No one wants to trade our pick for him.

1.) I don't think it makes much difference if we had 1 or 2 Plekanec. If they're your core, it's not going anywhere for you. Sooner or later the goals will dry up.

2.) I would say Colorado, and Tampa qualify, particularly with Colorado because they have so much value coming from their defence, which wont be available to us. And 5th is excessive, but so are cup winners. That's the point, the cup has to runneth over, not ''technically in some scenarios it might hopefully be enough.''

Like I said, I'm not opposed to a deal, depending on the terms I just wonder why now? What's the rush. Let's let Cheveldayoff stew for a bit. Drum up some rumours that PLD's gone as a UFA, and he only wants to go to Montreal.

 

[Archijerej]

Like I said, I'm not opposed to a deal, depending on the terms I just wonder why now? What's the rush. Let's let Cheveldayoff stew for a bit. Drum up some rumours that PLD's gone as a UFA, and he only wants to go to Montreal.

I don't mind waiting, especially it helps lower the price in any significant way. Other than that, I'd prefer to get it done. Our trade assets might get injured or have a bad season, some othet suitor might pop up etc.

As long as we aren't rash about it.

 

[Archijerej]

Would not Anderson be involved for a Dubois trade. Signed with term. Plus Habs need the cap space if acquiring Dubois.

Anderson, Dvorak, prospect - Roy/Kidney/Mailloux.

They get a center and a power forward.

That's a very significant package of assets that, if traded separately, could bring more value. I think Dvorak AND Anderson for Dubois is excessive and you're adding a prospect as well.

 

[jellybeans]

...the offersheet was ridiculously low for a player the caliber of Aho and it was reliant on Carolina being too cheap to deal with the upfront money owed on it...a stupid gamble that he made even worse with the loss of KK/trading MORE than we got for losing KK for Dvorak...tripling down on moronic, the Bargain Bin Way...

I agree the whole thing was a real shitshow from Bergevin.

 

[HabzSauce]

The winnipeg farts think they should get Dach, Barron and FLA 2023 1st pick, for PLD.

 

[blarneylad]

That's a very significant package of assets that, if traded separately, could bring more value. I think Dvorak AND Anderson for Dubois is excessive and you're adding a prospect as well.

Maybe use separate trades to acquire the assets required.

But not sending Dach. And hoping to keep that 1st

 

[Vachon23]

Where not trading Dach 1 week after acquiring him lol

 

[Archijerej]

Maybe use separate trades to acquire the assets required.

But not sending Dach. And hoping to keep that 1st

Why not send Dach? The Jets would be fully justified to require a piece that could develop into a top 6C. It could also reduce the amount and value of future assets we'd have to add on top of Dach. Dvorak as the main piece won't fly for them.

 

[blarneylad]

Why not send Dach? The Jets would be fully justified to require a piece that could develop into a top 6C. It could also reduce the amount and value of future assets we'd have to add on top of Dach. Dvorak as the main piece won't fly for them.

Right,

So I want to keep a 21 year old center with top 6 potential. But don’t care for Anderson as he is a north south skater who struggles to stay healthy.

Dach is worth a 13th as we paid it. Anderson likely a lesser first and prospect.

Montreal needs cap space. You can’t bring in Dubois as a rfa with 1 mil in cap space.

Montreal offloads 9.5 M in the deal while keeping a high upside recently acquired guy in Dach who is cost controlled. And adds Dubois who can be a center or winger.

Winnipeg gets a 3rd line center and a power forward for a guy who wants out.

I don’t see it as overpayment. Pacioretty is a ppg winger and just got traded for nothing. Because cap space is a premium. Offloading 9.5 is huge while obviously needing to sign Dubois and Dach still.

Win/win imo. Winnipeg is happy Habs should be too