Proposal: Trade proposal part IV

[Habs Halifax]

...you do realize that there's a type of D Montreal needs beyond left handed? There's a notable differenct between guys like Muzzin, guys like Leddy, Skjei and Fowler, guys like Bean and guys like Maatta.

The real piece we need on LD needs to be drafted (the one you and I would like). The other piece on LD is a guy like Bean. If we can swing a trade with them using parts like Tatar, Byron, Evans, Olofsson, Ikonen, Mete, Lindgren. I'd be very happy.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

...you do realize that there's a type of D Montreal needs beyond left handed? There's a notable differenct between guys like Muzzin, guys like Leddy, Skjei and Fowler, guys like Bean and guys like Maatta.

Muzzin: big physical, still able to make good plays, PP, etc. not the slowest ( 14 p each year on the PP)
Maatta: I like Maatta, I think he have way more ceiling than what people think, he just needs to work on his speed and edge, which is possible..
Leddy: great offense, great playmaker, AMAZING PP ( need PP power...)
Skjei: nice first pass, good speed, 2 way D
Bean: not the fastest, amazing Edge, amazing first pass, still a lot of ceiling to go


Yes, we need speed and a good first pass, but I think we still need a D who is good in his own Zone, not the Gardiner type.
I know all their difference, we don't necessary only aim at FOWLER AND GARDINER because they are fast and offensive...

and the real piece we need is a strong top 4 LHD... I don't care if he is more oriented on the D side of the thing. He can play on the PP and score ? he is legit in his own zone ? good first pass ?

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Drouin - Domi - Tarasenko
Tatar - Kotkaniemi - Gallagher

We could make a deep playoff run with that offence. If we can get a solid LD we're set.

 

[Vachon23]

Muzzin: big physical, still able to make good plays, PP, etc. not the slowest
Maatta: I like Maatta, I think he have way more ceiling than what people think, he just needs to work on his speed and edge, which is possible..
Leddy: great offense, great playmaker, AMAZING PP ( need PP power...)
Skjei: nice first pass, good speed, 2 way D
Bean: not the fastest, amazing Edge, amazing first pass, still a lot of ceiling to go


Yes, we need speed and a good first pass, but I think we still need a D who is good in his own Zone, not the Gardiner type.
I know all their difference, we don't necessary only aim at FOWLER AND GARDINER because they are fast and offensive...

Fowler and Gardiner are not in the same category for me.. Fowler can play big minutes not Gardiner

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I think it's possible to acquire Bean. Canes are clearly looking for help up front and are set on D. Bean is at the point where he is just figuring out the AHL and better to buy now before he is a rising stock.

I wonder if they would bite on Evans and Mete for Bean. Evans could be the type of center they would like to add to the system and he is very close to NHL ready at the age of 22

They are so stacked on the LHD, the Canes is the most logical choice for a trade imo.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Fowler and Gardiner are not in the same category for me.. Fowler can play big minutes not Gardiner

I meant it in the playstyle, both are fast and make a good first pass, Fowler is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better and he is one of my Fav player in the league

 

[Habs Halifax]

They are so stacked on the LHD, the Canes is the most logical choice for a trade imo.

I just wonder what they would ask for. I'm assuming they target a young forward. I'd start with Mete and Evans. They likely ask for one of our grade A pieces like Poehling and Suzuki. It might be a quick conversation. I think if they trade any of their D, they target a young potential top 6 forward.

I'd be very hesitant with Poehling and Hudon for Bean and Gauthier. If they added a 2nd or 3rd, I might consider it. Would be a tough trade to break down the risks.

Lets say a guy like Olofsson has a good U20's and opens some eyes. Then maybe Olofsson and a pick for Bean?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Muzzin: big physical, still able to make good plays, PP, etc. not the slowest ( 14 p each year on the PP)
Maatta: I like Maatta, I think he have way more ceiling than what people think, he just needs to work on his speed and edge, which is possible..
Leddy: great offense, great playmaker, AMAZING PP ( need PP power...)
Skjei: nice first pass, good speed, 2 way D
Bean: not the fastest, amazing Edge, amazing first pass, still a lot of ceiling to go


Yes, we need speed and a good first pass, but I think we still need a D who is good in his own Zone, not the Gardiner type.
I know all their difference, we don't necessary only aim at FOWLER AND GARDINER because they are fast and offensive...

and the real piece we need is a strong top 4 LHD... I don't care if he is more oriented on the D side of the thing. He can play on the PP and score ? he is legit in his own zone ? good first pass ?

None of the players you mentioned have all that. It sounds like you want Montreal to have a Norris level D-man (of the Subban, Doughty ilk). Which is less a need and more of a want.

If you're looking for a D-man to play with Weber, you don't NEED a D who is anything more than competent in their own end, which Fowler and Gardiner are.

You can probably survive offensive D that transition well, but are brutal in their own zone (like Leddy and Skjei).

You can probably manage a good passer that isn't the most mobile (like Muzzin)

You don't need an Alzner level skater like Maatta.

 

[LaP]

Acquiring Muzzin will be a mistake. Calling it right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Acquiring Muzzin will be a mistake. Calling it right now.

What are your reasons? Do you think he is done? Can you explain?

My concern is price to acquire? If it's Mete and a grade B piece or a 3rd. I'm totally ok with it... even if he walks at the age of 31 cause he ask for too much. I'm not high on Mete as some other are. In two years time, Mete can be the exact same guy we know today. Fast skater, good vision, poor shot, and gets pushed around in his own end.

Muzzin from age 29-31 at $4M cap hit is very good value IMO. Very similar to Petry on the left side.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

None of the players you mentioned have all that. It sounds like you want Montreal to have a Norris level D-man (of the Subban, Doughty ilk). Which is less a need and more of a want.

If you're looking for a D-man to play with Weber, you don't NEED a D who is anything more than competent in their own end, which Fowler and Gardiner are.

You can probably survive offensive D that transition well, but are brutal in their own zone (like Leddy and Skjei).

You can probably manage a good passer that isn't the most mobile (like Muzzin)

You don't need an Alzner level skater like Maatta.

I dont get why you are such on the defensive. And I really dont agree.

Anyway, We need a good top 4 lhd, not a kulak type to get carried by weber. And im not asking for a norris winner...

Leddy is not monstrous in his own zone... Same level as petry is, and for brady its understandable, have you seen his team recently and his lack of confidence ?

Really really not sure why you are getting so defensive. And im also stating different D type to help us talk about it... But it seems it frustrates you for wtv reason

 

[Mrb1p]

The Habs dont necessarily need a D that plays the PP. Every team in the league is now playing with four forwards, its just statistically better than 3 forwards and 2 Ds, unless you have Markov and Weber/Subban, but almost no team have that. Drouin is fine on the point.

Id also much rather keep Mete than acquire Bean.

Acquiring Muzzin will be a mistake. Calling it right now.

Agreed.

 

[LaP]

What are your reasons? Do you think he is done? Can you explain

Done is a big word but every games i've seen of him since the playoffs last year he was not a top 2 dman (this said i don't think he ever was but it's more evident this year imo). Sample size is not big maybe around 8 games or so but he was so meh in those games i have no trouble calling this a mistake. If we already had a solid LHD top 2 then yeah he would make a fine 2nd pairing with Petry but right now he's not the guy we need. We must aim higher than Muzzin.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Done is a big word but every games i've seen of him since the playoffs last year he was not a top 2 dman (this said i don't think he ever was but it's more evident this year imo). Sample size is not big maybe around 8 games or so but he was so meh in those games i have no trouble calling this a mistake. If we already had a solid LHD top 2 then yeah he would make a fine 2nd pairing with Petry but right now he's not the guy we need. We must aim higher than Muzzin.

He is Physical, big, not the slowest, great first pass, good in his own zone.
he is a top 4 LHD with the habs, and I still see value in him honnestly. Also, great PP so he can follow on the second line, I dont like PEtry on the pp

 

[Mrb1p]

He is Physical, big, not the slowest, great first pass, good in his own zone.
he is a top 4 LHD with the habs, and I still see value in him honnestly. Also, great PP so he can follow on the second line, I dont like PEtry on the pp

And he's 30 years old.

Might as well keep Petry if were going to acquire a 29 year old dude.

He's UFA at the same time as Petry and he would want his last contract to have term and money, something that would NOT be wise to give away as a rebuilding team.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

And he's 30 years old.

Might as well keep Petry if were going to acquire a 29 year old dude.

ya a tad too old for our core, but I like the overall of the player and the cost to acquire him wont be the cost for fowler.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I dont get why you are such on the defensive. And I really dont agree.

Anyway, We need a good top 4 lhd, not a kulak type to get carried by weber. And im not asking for a norris winner...

Leddy is not monstrous in his own zone... Same level as petry is, and for brady its understandable, have you seen his team recently and his lack of confidence ?

Really really not sure why you are getting so defensive. And im also stating different D type to help us talk about it... But it seems it frustrates you for wtv reason

How am I being defensive?

Also, over the last three seasons, Leddy has some of the worst defensive impacts in the NHL. If you're expecting Petry level of defence, look at Gardiner. Leddy is closer to Benn defensively.

 

[Mrb1p]

How am I being defensive?

Also, over the last three seasons, Leddy has some of the worst defensive impacts in the NHL. If you're expecting Petry level of defence, look at Gardiner. Leddy is closer to Benn defensively.

LMAO are you suggesting that A)Gardiner is close to Petrt defensively
B) that hes even top four worthy defensively
C) that hes better than Leddy

Thats the wrongest take Ive ever read, sorry.

 

[Mrb1p]

ya a tad too old for our core, but I like the overall of the player and the cost to acquire him wont be the cost for fowler.

The Habs camt acquire a top four LD by trade, just like they could not do it for a C. He needs to be drafted.

Stop looking at a quick fix, its not realistic.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

How am I being defensive?

Also, over the last three seasons, Leddy has some of the worst defensive impacts in the NHL. If you're expecting Petry level of defence, look at Gardiner. Leddy is closer to Benn defensively.

ya.... no, not true at all. Leddy is better than Gardiner and PEtry is better than GArdiner in his own zone and on offense.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

The Habs camt acquire a top four LD by trade, just like they could not do it for a C. He needs to be drafted.

Stop looking at a quick fix, its not realistic.

I will do quick fix for you:

Bean for Poehling

boom, both team fix their problem.

 

[Mrb1p]

I will do quick fix for you:

Bean for Poehling

boom, both team fix their problem.

Ill do a quick fix for you... we keep the better asset and we let them have their bust.

Keep Poehling, let him develop into a 2C and dangle him later when his value has peaked.

Draft LDs, trade Petry for another possible LD along with Mete and romanov, get another first and look at Harley and Robinson to fix our LD woes in two years.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Ill do a quick fix for you... we keep the better asset and we let them have their bust.

Keep Poehling, let him develop into a 2C and dangle him later when his value has peaked.

Draft LDs, trade Petry for another possible LD along with Mete and romanov, get another first and look at Harley and Robinson to fix our LD woes in two years.

we cant wait to draft a LHD next year.... 17/18 years old is too young for our core, 18 yo D are not NHL ready at all ( Dahlin is different) our core is rising and a NHL top 4 LHD of 18 years old is almost impossible to find or draft, except if it's a top 5 pick... we need a 20+ D who is NHL ready next year, Bean is.

 

[Vachon23]

we cant wait to draft a LHD next year.... 17/18 years old is too young for our core, 18 yo D are not NHL ready at all ( Dahlin is different) our core is rising and a NHL top 4 LHD of 18 years old is almost impossible to find or draft, except if it's a top 5 pick... we need a 20+ D who is NHL ready next year, Bean is.

I don't understand what attracts you so much in Bean ? His progression is not really good since the year he was draft..

 

[Mrb1p]

we cant wait to draft a LHD next year.... 17/18 years old is too young for our core, 18 yo D are not NHL ready at all ( Dahlin is different) our core is rising and a NHL top 4 LHD of 18 years old is almost impossible to find or draft, except if it's a top 5 pick... we need a 20+ D who is NHL ready next year, Bean is.

You wont get that without paying out the nose, its just not something that is smart.

Bean is not good, Mete is better, stop with him.