Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXV

[AKL]

Same as the Dubnyk trade. Try something now so you have an idea of what you have/need next year. The plan can't be to start next season with Dubnyk and Stalock, so the sooner you start trying to fix it, the sooner it will be fixed.

What if the plan next year is to start with Kahkonen?

 

[Wabit]

Just use the NYR for your one stop shopping needs, pick up Lias Andersson and Lundqvist.

 

[2Pair]

What if the plan next year is to start with Kahkonen?

Then you would really want to have a veteran backup to pair him with. Signing a guy like Halak would make a ton of sense in that situation.

 

[Bazeek]

Enough of an upgrade to make the playoffs? Enough of an upgrade to win a playoff series? The Cup?

Playoffs? Probably
Second round? Maybe
Cup? Probably not

I don't endorse going out and spending a bunch of assets or anything, but anything is better than what we have. This is handily the worst tandem in the league and it has cost the team games, points and, if something isn't done, a playoff spot.

If Guerin would rather go for a lottery pick this year, fine. But that's necessarily what sticking with these two would mean.

 

[AKL]

Then you would really want to have a veteran backup to pair him with. Signing a guy like Halak would make a ton of sense in that situation.

If your plan is to start with Kahkonen next year and sign a veteran this summer to back him up, then your only option is to keep Dubnyk and Stalock and try to dump them this summer.

Playoffs? Probably
Second round? Maybe
Cup? Probably not

I don't endorse going out and spending a bunch of assets or anything, but anything is better than what we have. This is handily the worst tandem in the league and it has cost the team games, points and, if something isn't done, a playoff spot.

If Guerin would rather go for a lottery pick this year, fine. But that's necessarily what sticking with these two would mean.

If all you're doing when you acquire a goalie is aiming for a first round loss, maybe second? Then there's no point to trading for a new goalie right now.


No one is going to take Dubnyk back as it stands. If he can't play well behind what is otherwise "a top 5 team in the West", he's not going to play well anywhere. And he's making 4.3M for another year.

Your best option is to stand pat on goaltending, hope Kahkonen can start next season, use Dubnyk as the veteran backup, and then let him retire in 2021. Unless you can dump Stalock this season and let Kahkonen take some more games.

 

[Bazeek]

If all you're doing when you acquire a goalie is aiming for a first round loss, maybe second? Then there's no point to trading for a new goalie right now.


No one is going to take Dubnyk back as it stands. If he can't play well behind what is otherwise "a top 5 team in the West", he's not going to play well anywhere. And he's making 4.3M for another year.

Your best option is to stand pat on goaltending, hope Kahkonen can start next season, use Dubnyk as the veteran backup, and then let him retire in 2021. Unless you can dump Stalock this season and let Kahkonen take some more games.

I wouldn't say that's the aim, it's just how I see the probabilities. We could trade Dubnyk for Hellebuyck and Rask for Seguin and the chances of a Cup are still going to be "probably not." It's just that difficult, which is why I don't think it should be used as a reason to not make the team better.

I agree on Dubnyk, though. Two years of term plus a modified no-trade with his performance? Getting rid of him would likely cost more than it's worth. But Stalock? Him you can probably move without much fuss.

 

[AKL]

All I mean is, looking at this roster, even if we acquire a DeSmith or Georgiev, it's not a team you look at and say, yeah that team could go all the way. Don't try to patch the hole that you're not even sure will make a difference. This team was barely a top 5 team in the West most years when Dubnyk was a top 5 goalie. Yeah, it's a clear weakness right now, but use this opportunity to get more talent via the draft, and maybe a trade if there's one that makes sense (we still have to move a winger, maybe Zucker could fetch a good return at the deadline, even if you don't have to move him in-season).

If acquiring a goalie means we pick 14th or 15th or 16th instead of 6th or 7th or 8th, I'd rather keep the top 10 pick. If acquiring a goalie means you go on a deep playoff run (WCF or later), then yeah, it makes sense to try to acquire that goalie.

Frankly, I don't see the latter happening.

 

[AKL]

I see the bigger issues for this team going forward as top 6 centers and coaching. If you get a goalie to try to save the season, you're just bailing water out of a sinking boat.

Fix the holes first, and by the time you fix the holes, you might have Kahkonen, Robson, Jones or whoever else ready to be a starting goalie.

 

[Bazeek]

All I mean is, looking at this roster, even if we acquire a DeSmith or Georgiev, it's not a team you look at and say, yeah that team could go all the way. Don't try to patch the hole that you're not even sure will make a difference. This team was barely a top 5 team in the West most years when Dubnyk was a top 5 goalie. Yeah, it's a clear weakness right now, but use this opportunity to get more talent via the draft, and maybe a trade if there's one that makes sense (we still have to move a winger, maybe Zucker could fetch a good return at the deadline, even if you don't have to move him in-season).

If acquiring a goalie means we pick 14th or 15th or 16th instead of 6th or 7th or 8th, I'd rather keep the top 10 pick. If acquiring a goalie means you go on a deep playoff run (WCF or later), then yeah, it makes sense to try to acquire that goalie.

Frankly, I don't see the latter happening.

For what it's worth, I strongly suspect that this is what will happen. Mostly I'm making a case for it being a clear decision point and the sort of thing that represents a choice by the GM even if nothing actually happens.

It's going to continue to make line-up decisions frustrating though, because I don't expect the coaches or players to accept defeat that easily.

 

[AKL]

It's going to continue to make line-up decisions frustrating though, because I don't expect the coaches or players to accept defeat that easily.

Maybe later on, when the team continues to do poorly, that's where Guerin sits down with Boudreau and says, "look, we're not going to get you any more help this season, the team is still losing games, we're 22nd in the league, and I need to figure out who I can move and who I need to keep going forward. So let's get some different line combos, lets get some younger players more meaningful ice time, lets shut down guys who are playing through injuries, and let's start to prepare for the future."

 

[AKL]

I do wish we could re-unite the Parise-Donato-Fiala line, and call up Beckman to play on the Staal line for a game or two. If only cause that would be fun for us to watch. I don't expect that Beckman would actually hold that spot at this point.

 

[Bazeek]

Maybe later on, when the team continues to do poorly, that's where Guerin sits down with Boudreau and says, "look, we're not going to get you any more help this season, the team is still losing gamnes, we're 22nd in the league, and I need to figure out who I can move and who I need to keep going forward. So let's get some different line combos, lets get some younger players more meaningful ice time, lets shut down guys who are playing through injuries, and let's start to prepare for the future."

Selling Bruce on preparing for a future that he probably doesn't expect to be a part of seems like it'd require a double-dose of Guerin's charm Not that he has to worry too much about finding another job with the way coaching positions are opening up.

 

[Wabit]

Minor point with Beckman. He's not under contract yet.

 

[Bazeek]

Minor point with Beckman. He's not under contract yet.

I assumed the Beckman stuff was just a joke. He'd get torn apart in the NHL.

 

[AKL]

Selling Bruce on preparing for a future that he probably doesn't expect to be a part of seems like it'd require a double-dose of Guerin's charm Not that he has to worry too much about finding another job with the way coaching positions are opening up.

My first idea was to fire Bruce and tell the interim guy the same thing. Either one works for me.
Figured I'd give Bruce the option though of letting him collect his last few paychecks.

 

[Bazeek]

My first idea was to fire Bruce and tell the interim guy the same thing. Either one works for me.
Figured I'd give Bruce the option though of letting him collect his last few paychecks.

He's got a contract. He gets paid regardless.

 

[AKL]

Minor point with Beckman. He's not under contract yet.

I assumed the Beckman stuff was just a joke. He'd get torn apart in the NHL.

I really would love to see it, but yeah I know it's not realistic and I know it's not a good idea anyway.

 

[AKL]

He's got a contract. He gets paid regardless.

Then fire him. Team needs to do what's best for their future, not what's best for Boudreau right now. If Guerin really does plan on letting the season go, there's no reason to keep Bruce around.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Georgiev out of New York. DeSmith or Jarry out of Pittsburgh. Maybe Markstrom out of Vancouver.

I should add that the "flush the season" plan basically means standing pat. I think Koivu's our only expiring contract and I don't really expect him to waive for a deadline trade. I wouldn't expect a big sell-off or anything like that.

I think Georgiev is a stud. I’m more in the stand pat and let the season play out boy, but if Geo can be brought in over the summer, I’d be willing to move a guy like firstov for him.

 

[Wabit]

Maybe later on, when the team continues to do poorly, that's where Guerin sits down with Boudreau and says, "look, we're not going to get you any more help this season, the team is still losing games, we're 22nd in the league, and I need to figure out who I can move and who I need to keep going forward. So let's get some different line combos, lets get some younger players more meaningful ice time, lets shut down guys who are playing through injuries, and let's start to prepare for the future."

Wasn't one of the reasons the last GM got fired is because he was forcing lineups?

 

[2Pair]

If your plan is to start with Kahkonen next year and sign a veteran this summer to back him up, then your only option is to keep Dubnyk and Stalock and try to dump them this summer.



If all you're doing when you acquire a goalie is aiming for a first round loss, maybe second? Then there's no point to trading for a new goalie right now.


No one is going to take Dubnyk back as it stands. If he can't play well behind what is otherwise "a top 5 team in the West", he's not going to play well anywhere. And he's making 4.3M for another year.

Your best option is to stand pat on goaltending, hope Kahkonen can start next season, use Dubnyk as the veteran backup, and then let him retire in 2021. Unless you can dump Stalock this season and let Kahkonen take some more games.

If the plan is to go into next season with Kahkonen as the starter? Then you need to get Dubnyk off this team and get Kahkonen in net as soon as possible. There's nothing about Dubnyk's game that makes you want to keep him as the backup

 

[AKL]

Wasn't one of the reasons the last GM got fired is because he was forcing lineups?

I think it was more because he was an insufferable prick and a terrible people manager.

And there's a difference between saying "Bitetto needs to be in your top 6 every night" and saying "I need to figure out who to keep and who to move, can you try different combos and put some younger players in some new situations"

 

[AKL]

If the plan is to go into next season with Kahkonen as the starter? Then you need to get Dubnyk off this team and get Kahkonen in net as soon as possible. There's nothing about Dubnyk's game that makes you want to keep him as the backup

Yeah and there's everything about his contract and his play that says you can't just move him because you want to move him. Takes two teams to make a deal, if you can find another team to take him, full steam ahead with moving him. Good luck.

 

[2Pair]

All I mean is, looking at this roster, even if we acquire a DeSmith or Georgiev, it's not a team you look at and say, yeah that team could go all the way. Don't try to patch the hole that you're not even sure will make a difference. This team was barely a top 5 team in the West most years when Dubnyk was a top 5 goalie. Yeah, it's a clear weakness right now, but use this opportunity to get more talent via the draft, and maybe a trade if there's one that makes sense (we still have to move a winger, maybe Zucker could fetch a good return at the deadline, even if you don't have to move him in-season).

If acquiring a goalie means we pick 14th or 15th or 16th instead of 6th or 7th or 8th, I'd rather keep the top 10 pick. If acquiring a goalie means you go on a deep playoff run (WCF or later), then yeah, it makes sense to try to acquire that goalie.

Frankly, I don't see the latter happening.

If this team adds the same level goaltender that the Blues did at this time last year, then they are absolutely a contender in the West

 

[2Pair]

Yeah and there's everything about his contract and his play that says you can't just move him because you want to move him. Takes two teams to make a deal, if you can find another team to take him, full steam ahead with moving him. Good luck.

Then you buy him out. It isn't rocket science