Speculation: Trade, FA & Rumours (Mod warning OP)

[Hunter368]

Silly stuff like what? I didn't say Jack = Laine. I said a much improved Laine, plus a 1st, + another piece = Jack, if Jack is forcing his way out of Buffalo. You are putting words in my mouth there.

Yes, you used the real totals. Why would you do that, given the criteria that I made very plain to start with? Nothing biased about it at all. It is a hypothetical. The entire question was hypothetical based on a scenario where Laine has his breakout year - which would not be any kind of a surprise. If he is going to do that, this would be the year for it.

I've said several times that the 2 players both want out. So that is a wash. But the question of what would anyone else give for the players under the circumstances still applies. If Buffalo doesn't take our offer who would make a better one? What team would be willing and able to give Sabres a 1C in exchange? Keep the flat cap in mind. We will still be in unusual circumstances next off-season. I could have asked the same question in regards to Laine but it wasn't necessary since you were rejecting the offer I proposed from the Jets.

I didn't say that Laine will have that breakout season. I asked the question based on if he has that season. Doubling his value was a little hyperbole directed at your low evaluation of him now, which you have made plain for some time. You value him lower than I do. Lower than many others do. Toward the bottom part of the range. But the whole thing, once again, is based on a hypothetical.

Laine's totals falling and Eichel's rising is another story. Not altogether unlikely, but Eichel has played with the best linemates Buffalo could give him. Laine has not had the same benefit, most of the time. But market value tends to go by the scoring numbers without fully allowing for context. Look at Skinner's contract, for example. It also tends to be weighted heavily toward the most recent data.

The list of teams wanting Eichel would be 31 long. But how many of those teams could make serious offers, all things considered?

Will our 1st be late? We are better with Laine out and Eichel in, but we still have a weak D corps. I don't think Perfetti does it as a C replacement. They already have prospect C replacements.

I agree that including Scheifele is the most direct way of making a fair offer. Like I said, I would try very hard to find some other way of making up the value. Would adding Heinola help? I don't see him as filling a need for Buffalo. They already have Dahlin on the left side. Probably similar in style and Dahlin is better.

If I had just wanted to ask what would it take, added to Laine, I would have started with Scheifele myself. But that is not the question I was interested in because I don't want to swap 1C's. I want to have 2 of them. Therefore, the question in the hypothetical scenario where Laine has a breakout year first.

If you are not interested in that speculation, you are free to decline to do so. You are also free to say you reject that scenario and state that nothing less than Scheifele would do. But it doesn't work if you just ignore the criteria and plow ahead as though you were answering the question as asked. It just leads to this kind of exchange.

Ignoring most of your post b/c it's all moot IMO b/c the premise your presenting is incredibly one sided, heavy bais in favour of Laine that it's pure homerism. You want to talk wild speculation, doubling Laine value is impossible in a few months training........I can't be so heavily one sided bais in our favour like your suggesting, I just can't do that, IMO it's a waste of time and borderline embarressing to talk like that. That's why I use real stats, real results to talk.......it helps remove any homer bais.

If you want to talk more realistic and say Laine incrementally improves this offseason......ok we can talk about it. But saying he wildly improves (doubling his value), is just a waste of time I'll pass on that conversation b/c we will just waste each other's time.

I would suggest many (meaning multi teams) teams would start by offering their current 1C+ for Eichel.......which in most cases beat out Laine+.........value in a bubble might be closer, but fit is much better then offering a winger as the main piece.

Example of what I mean, I'm ok speculating Laine will score 35+ goals and even get to 75+ points, improving his conditioning, incrementally improving his defensive play. IMO this a realistic & fair expectation regarding Laine improving this offseason. Let's ignore all our other comments and use this as the starting point for our conversation instead of vague comments. How does this compare to your speculation on Laines increase in value? Once we get to a base starting point on what Laine value is then we can talk from there.

 

[robertocarlos]

You have to balance the money but I'd do Laine and Chef for Eichel plus whoever.

 

[robertocarlos]

Chef will want $9-11 million 4 years from now

 

[Hunter368]

Boston board is talking a lot about Laine for Carlo & Debrusk. IMO a trade like that, assuming Laine wants out. I like both Boston guys, Carlo is a good shut down guy, DeBrusk is a solid hard working high compete 40-50 point winger. Seems most/many Boston fans pass on that trade, losing Carlo would hurt their defence too much. The original writer speculated it would be Carlo, DeBrusk for Laine.......likely pluses to both sides to balance it out.

I've seen some highlights of Carlo playing both sides, albeit I "think" he prefers the right side. If he could play both sides and the trade happened we would look like:

KC Mark Blake
DeBrusk Stastny Ehlers
Vesalainen Copp Roslovic
MP Lowry Appleton
(Can juggle the bottom six around multi ways, including guys I didn't even post but on roster)

Josh DeMelo
Carlo Pionk
Samberg/Heinola/Poolman/Forbort

This would likely mean Pionk gets traded pre expansion draft, but our D would look real good next year. Post expansion draft, Carlo would then play whatever side needed and one of Samberg/Heinola would play the other whoever develops better/faster. Jets forwards are a more high compete group then pre trade, albeit less skilled of course. But the Jets defence is much better post trade, plus balances out the cap spending better between forwards & defence. Either way I don't think Boston goes for that trade, it hurts their defence too much taking away their top pairing shut down guy.

Murphy: Bruins Can Redeem Offseason with Patrik Laine Trade

See link to article. Apparently Boston has spoken to the Jets about Laine. Writer speculation is Carlo, DeBrusk, 1st & very good prospect for Laine.

Another interesting article.

Bruins Shopping Urho Vaakanainen

 

[Adam da bomb]

Boston board is talking a lot about Laine for Carlo & Debrusk. IMO a trade like that, assuming Laine wants out. I like both Boston guys, Carlo is a good shut down guy, DeBrusk is a solid hard working high compete 40-50 point winger. Seems most/many Boston fans pass on that trade, losing Carlo would hurt their defence too much. The original writer speculated it would be Carlo, DeBrusk for Laine.......likely pluses to both sides to balance it out.

I've seen some highlights of Carlo playing both sides, albeit I "think" he prefers the right side. If he could play both sides and the trade happened we would look like:

KC Mark Blake
DeBrusk Stastny Ehlers
Vesalainen Copp Roslovic
MP Lowry Appleton
(Can juggle the bottom six around multi ways, including guys I didn't even post but on roster)

Josh DeMelo
Carlo Pionk
Samberg/Heinola/Poolman/Forbort

This would likely mean Pionk gets traded pre expansion draft, but our D would look real good next year. Post expansion draft, Carlo would then play whatever side needed and one of Samberg/Heinola would play the other whoever develops better/faster. Jets forwards are a more high compete group then pre trade, albeit less skilled of course. But the Jets defence is much better post trade, plus balances out the cap spending better between forwards & defence. Either way I don't think Boston goes for that trade, it hurts their defence too much taking away their top pairing shut down guy.

Murphy: Bruins Can Redeem Offseason with Patrik Laine Trade

See link to article. Apparently Boston has spoken to the Jets about Laine. Writer speculation is Carlo, DeBrusk, 1st & very good prospect for Laine.

Another interesting article.

Bruins Shopping Urho Vaakanainen

If we are trading Laine I’d prefer a D with 1st pairing potential not 2nd.

 

[Hunter368]

If we are trading Laine I’d prefer a D with 1st pairing potential not 2nd.

Carlo plays on the top pairing and huge mins on one of the best, if not the best defensive teams in the NHL.......so there is that. 2nd most mins to only McAvoy. Not a bad resume.

 

[surixon]

Boston board is talking a lot about Laine for Carlo & Debrusk. IMO a trade like that, assuming Laine wants out. I like both Boston guys, Carlo is a good shut down guy, DeBrusk is a solid hard working high compete 40-50 point winger. Seems most/many Boston fans pass on that trade, losing Carlo would hurt their defence too much. The original writer speculated it would be Carlo, DeBrusk for Laine.......likely pluses to both sides to balance it out.

I've seen some highlights of Carlo playing both sides, albeit I "think" he prefers the right side. If he could play both sides and the trade happened we would look like:

KC Mark Blake
DeBrusk Stastny Ehlers
Vesalainen Copp Roslovic
MP Lowry Appleton
(Can juggle the bottom six around multi ways, including guys I didn't even post but on roster)

Josh DeMelo
Carlo Pionk
Samberg/Heinola/Poolman/Forbort

This would likely mean Pionk gets traded pre expansion draft, but our D would look real good next year. Post expansion draft, Carlo would then play whatever side needed and one of Samberg/Heinola would play the other whoever develops better/faster. Jets forwards are a more high compete group then pre trade, albeit less skilled of course. But the Jets defence is much better post trade, plus balances out the cap spending better between forwards & defence. Either way I don't think Boston goes for that trade, it hurts their defence too much taking away their top pairing shut down guy.

Murphy: Bruins Can Redeem Offseason with Patrik Laine Trade

See link to article. Apparently Boston has spoken to the Jets about Laine. Writer speculation is Carlo, DeBrusk, 1st & very good prospect for Laine.

Another interesting article.

Bruins Shopping Urho Vaakanainen

I would want a more balanced dmem in the package. We have DeMelo and likely soon to be Samberg as defensive guys. Add Carlo and Poolman and we are too heavily slated to pure defensive play. I would want someone in the Morrissey mold in that he would be good both ways.

Package isn't bad value wise and Dubrusk is a useful player and we could use more in the pipeline via futures.

It likely sets us back next year though.

 

[Hunter368]

I would want a more balanced dmem in the package. We have DeMelo and likely soon to be Samberg as defensive guys. Add Carlo and Poolman and we are too heavily slated to pure defensive play. I would want someone in the Morrissey mold in that he would be good both ways.

Package isn't bad value wise and Dubrusk is a useful player and we could use more in the pipeline via futures.

It likely sets us back next year though.

Carlo last year had 3:28 on the PP, and 19 points total.

Josh M had 114:30 on the PP and 31 points total.

Fair to say with similar PP time as Josh, Carlo point totals would be much closer to Josh's. Agreed?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Carlo plays on the top pairing and huge mins on one of the best, if not the best defensive teams in the NHL.......so there is that. 2nd most mins to only McAvoy. Not a bad resume.

So then why isn’t he playing over Morrissey?

 

[Hunter368]

So then why isn’t he playing over Morrissey?

He might......time would tell. Keep in mind he plays both sides (seen highlights) but I think he's a more natural right side guy. If happened I think this year he might play LHD but following year RHD but who knows with expansion

 

[10Ducky10]

DeBrusk and Carlo with a prospect and a 1st is why Laine hasn't been traded yet.
Chevy will do much better than that.
Carlo is no better than a good defensive 2RHD.
Boston is not a very good trading partner for the Jets.
Konecny and Sanheim from the Flyers would be a nice start...

 

[surixon]

Carlo last year had 3:28 on the PP, and 19 points total.

Josh M had 114:30 on the PP and 31 points total.

Fair to say with similar PP time as Josh, Carlo point totals would be much closer to Josh's. Agreed?

Well Josh had a pretty low scoring year by his standards at 5 on 5 last year.

Maybe he is better then I am remembering. He would be a Maurice type dmen.

 

[KingBogo]

Boston board is talking a lot about Laine for Carlo & Debrusk. IMO a trade like that, assuming Laine wants out. I like both Boston guys, Carlo is a good shut down guy, DeBrusk is a solid hard working high compete 40-50 point winger. Seems most/many Boston fans pass on that trade, losing Carlo would hurt their defence too much. The original writer speculated it would be Carlo, DeBrusk for Laine.......likely pluses to both sides to balance it out.

I've seen some highlights of Carlo playing both sides, albeit I "think" he prefers the right side. If he could play both sides and the trade happened we would look like:

KC Mark Blake
DeBrusk Stastny Ehlers
Vesalainen Copp Roslovic
MP Lowry Appleton
(Can juggle the bottom six around multi ways, including guys I didn't even post but on roster)

Josh DeMelo
Carlo Pionk
Samberg/Heinola/Poolman/Forbort

This would likely mean Pionk gets traded pre expansion draft, but our D would look real good next year. Post expansion draft, Carlo would then play whatever side needed and one of Samberg/Heinola would play the other whoever develops better/faster. Jets forwards are a more high compete group then pre trade, albeit less skilled of course. But the Jets defence is much better post trade, plus balances out the cap spending better between forwards & defence. Either way I don't think Boston goes for that trade, it hurts their defence too much taking away their top pairing shut down guy.

Murphy: Bruins Can Redeem Offseason with Patrik Laine Trade

See link to article. Apparently Boston has spoken to the Jets about Laine. Writer speculation is Carlo, DeBrusk, 1st & very good prospect for Laine.

Another interesting article.

Bruins Shopping Urho Vaakanainen

DeBrusk and Carlo aren't a bad starting point for a trade, but as much the Bruins wouldn't want to trade him I'd want Chevy to push for Studnicka to be included. A young middle 6 center with good size ready to make the jump to the NHL would be a perfect addition for us. Maybe balance it out by including Pionk in the deal. From Boston DeBrusk, Carlo, Studnicka and 2021 1st (no lottery protection just incase things go south for the Bruins in a shortened season) for Laine and Pionk. We become a much more balanced team with the addition of 3 good young players and another 1st round pick for the future.

 

[Weezeric]

I would laugh pretty hard if after being behind Wheeler for a few years, he gets traded to Boston to be behind Pastrnak hah

 

[tbcwpg]

DeBrusk and Carlo aren't a bad starting point for a trade, but as much the Bruins wouldn't want to trade him I'd want Chevy to push for Studnicka to be included. A young middle 6 center with good size ready to make the jump to the NHL would be a perfect addition for us. Maybe balance it out by including Pionk in the deal. From Boston DeBrusk, Carlo, Studnicka and 2021 1st (no lottery protection just incase things go south for the Bruins in a shortened season) for Laine and Pionk. We become a much more balanced team with the addition of 3 good young players and another 1st round pick for the future.

If they wouldn't trade Studnicka for OEL they won't for Laine.

I would laugh pretty hard if after being behind Wheeler for a few years, he gets traded to Boston to be behind Pastrnak hah

Yeah, Boston is one of the very few teams in the league where Laine would still be on the second line.

 

[KingBogo]

If they wouldn't trade Studnicka for OEL they won't for Laine.



Yeah, Boston is one of the very few teams in the league where Laine would still be on the second line.

Big difference between getting a fading OEL and his anchor of a contract and acquiring Laine.

 

[tbcwpg]

Big difference between getting a fading OEL and his anchor of a contract and acquiring Laine.

To us maybe but I don't think a lot of GMs see it that way.

 

[Hunter368]

Well Josh had a pretty low scoring year by his standards at 5 on 5 last year.

Maybe he is better then I am remembering. He would be a Maurice type dmen.

Another fun fact, Carlo has great 5vs5 scoring, playing behind Krug on the PP you tend not to get much time. He actually tied Krug in 5vs5 scoring, so easy to believe Carlo scoring will increase with a similar PP time as Josh.

 

[surixon]

Another fun fact, Carlo has great 5vs5 scoring, playing behind Krug on the PP you tend not to get much time. He actually tied Krug in 5vs5 scoring, so easy to believe Carlo scoring will increase with a similar PP time as Josh.

I doubt he gets pp time here if we traded for him.

 

[Hunter368]

DeBrusk and Carlo aren't a bad starting point for a trade, but as much the Bruins wouldn't want to trade him I'd want Chevy to push for Studnicka to be included. A young middle 6 center with good size ready to make the jump to the NHL would be a perfect addition for us. Maybe balance it out by including Pionk in the deal. From Boston DeBrusk, Carlo, Studnicka and 2021 1st (no lottery protection just incase things go south for the Bruins in a shortened season) for Laine and Pionk. We become a much more balanced team with the addition of 3 good young players and another 1st round pick for the future.

Yeh the writer stated similar thing, he stated Carlo, DeBrusk, 1st and any prospect not named Studnicka for Laine. Personally I don't think the Jets get that much for Laine but I would be over the moon with that trade. Adding Pionk hurts our D this year, but setup nicely for expansion and if it meant getting Studnicka I would absolutely do it. DeBrusk is a hard working winger who will replace 40-50 points of Laine's production for a much much smaller cap hit. Carlo stat line watchers call him a pure defensive D are not looking deep enough into the data, while I agree he's more defensive he can still put up easily 25-35 points with some PP time which he got almost zero in Boston playing behind Krug & McAvoy. Studnicka looks like a very good prospect, plus they add a 1st Rd pick. I would love that trade.

 

[Hunter368]

I doubt he gets pp time here if we traded for him.

That depends, DeMelo is no offensive guy. If Pinok was traded, yes Carlo is better then DeMelo offensively, look at the 5vs5 numbers.

 

[surixon]

That depends, DeMelo is no offensive guy. If Pinok was traded, yes Carlo is better then DeMelo offensively, look at the 5vs5 numbers.

I am assuming Pionk is staying atleast for this coming year. After that I would expect Heionla to pick up some of his pp minutes.

 

[KingBogo]

To us maybe but I don't think a lot of GMs see it that way.

Interesting comment about the "to us" perspective. I always find it interesting to read what other fan bases believe is fair when they talk among themselves on their own boards. No doubt the truth of what Laine is worth is somewhere in the middle of what Jets fans believe and what other fan bases believe.

 

[Hunter368]

I am assuming Pionk is staying atleast for this coming year. After that I would expect Heionla to pick up some of his pp minutes.

Pionk might be traded if Carlo was added, depends if one of them can LHD. Then after expansion the team would reevaluate where Heinola & Samberg are at development wise. Nothing is a sure thing with either rookie.

 

[KingBogo]

Yeh the writer stated similar thing, he stated Carlo, DeBrusk, 1st and any prospect not named Studnicka for Laine. Personally I don't think the Jets get that much for Laine but I would be over the moon with that trade. Adding Pionk hurts our D this year, but setup nicely for expansion and if it meant getting Studnicka I would absolutely do it. DeBrusk is a hard working winger who will replace 40-50 points of Laine's production for a much much smaller cap hit. Carlo stat line watchers call him a pure defensive D are not looking deep enough into the data, while I agree he's more defensive he can still put up easily 25-35 points with some PP time which he got almost zero in Boston playing behind Krug & McAvoy. Studnicka looks like a very good prospect, plus they add a 1st Rd pick. I would love that trade.

Yeah it would give us 3 good players that fit in perfectly with our young core and at positions of need. Boston would get the best player, but I think we would improve most as a team which the bottom line IMO.