Speculation: Trade, FA & Rumours (Mod warning OP)

[WolfHouse]

So to recap - I guess we never really were going to sign anyone else... and never going to make a splashy deal... but the fantasy trades have been super fun

Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Pionk
Beaulieu-Poolman
Samberg-Sbisa

Not 'terrible' but far from great... need another vezina year and 40+ goal seasons from Scheif, Connor and Laine

 

[tbcwpg]

I like the mend bridges with Laine part. I'm not interested in moving him because of some ruffled feathers.

If all we get is a big downgrade at RW and a middling RD, then I don't do a trade.

The Selanne trade is like picking out one of the worst results ever from players taken that high. But of course there is risk. Prospects disappoint sometimes. But that is why the potential win is there for us too. What if Tverdovsky and Kilger had lived up to their pre-draft resumes?

At this point, I am not trading Laine without getting a top 6 RW back. Obviously has to be a downgrade, but still top 6. And we can move Ehlers to RW if necessary. He makes that move very smoothly.

I don't think Rosie wants out. He wants opportunity. I would give him that.

I don't like the way people use the term "hockey trade". Trading Laine for 2 players to make out team better is a hockey trade and that is what I would be looking for. It is only not a hockey trade if we are moving Laine to get rid of him or his salary/cap hit or if he is forcing his way out. Some people may be talking of one or more of those things. I am not.

Any 1 for 1 trade of Laine would have to be for a 1st pair D. Prefer RHS but LHS could also work. But I think we lose any 1 for 1 trade. Laine for Seth Jones doesn't happen. Laine for Werenski, we lose.

I would add other parts to a deal to get the right return. Any Laine trade is going to be a blockbuster.

Just to address a couple points:

You'd give Roslovic more opportunity - how? If your ideal trade brings back another top 6 forward, then there's no additional spot that opens for him there.

Second, I don't see a world where a top line winger, even Laine, returns a top pairing defenceman in a 1-for-1. We'd need an add most likely.

 

[Buffdog]

I still feel we have too much tied up in wingers -

If we were to trade Laine for a 1RHD, we shore up the biggest hole in the line up today. That hole filled will also make our best forwards better - especially the top line.
I've set aside the C needs for now - we have a short term hole filled and possibly down the road (we'll see how quick out #1 draft choice fits into the plan).
Rosie now has an opportunity for top 6 minutes on the second line (RW) - he has the skills to play the role and now he might have the opportunity.
If I had to measure "need" between a 1RHD and a top 6 RW'er, I take the D man every time.

But I also don't think this trade is happening any time soon - Laine's apparent value across the league is not close to the value we and this organization have him at. There are all the other factors at play as well - this is not a good time to make trades of this magnitude.

I'm not opposed to trading Laine for a 1RHD, but you'd have to find a team with an extra one, a need on RW and cap to sign Laine long term. Good luck

 

[robertocarlos]

Yes you would have to add to Laine to trade for a 1RHD. You could also settle for a 1LHD. Add Ros, a 2nd, and a prospect.
Three top wingers is enough. You can't spend 30 million on 4 top wingers when you need 18 million for 2 Cs, 7 million for a goalie, and 25 million for 4 top Ds.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm not opposed to trading Laine for a 1RHD, but you'd have to find a team with an extra one, a need on RW and cap to sign Laine long term. Good luck

Didn't say it would be easy but it's what we need - I doubt very much that it happens under the circumstances.
I'm not concerned about the cap - the #1 D will be just as expensive (likely) and either team involved is pretty much sawing off.
It's where you spend the money that is more important.

 

[surixon]

Didn't say it would be easy but it's what we need - I doubt very much that it happens under the circumstances.
I'm not concerned about the cap - the #1 D will be just as expensive (likely) and either team involved is pretty much sawing off.
It's where you spend the money that is more important.

I don't disagree with regards to cap allocation but I think ELC's need to be accounted for in any scenario we are to pursue. An optimistic view on things is we are likely to get some pretty good contributions at center and on defense in Perfetti, Heinola, and Samberg that will stem most of the tide of the remainder of the Wheeler deal. As such there is likely not as much of a need to rebalance our cap. The cap space for a top right dmen can likely be made up of by moving on from Pionk and letting an expensive 4th line player like Lowry walk, and filling Roslovic third line slot with an ELC player like Ves.

If we need another year of Stastney as stop gap for Cole it won't cost the $6.5 million he is making now. So you save another two to three million there.

 

[Atoyot]

I'm not opposed to trading Laine for a 1RHD, but you'd have to find a team with an extra one, a need on RW and cap to sign Laine long term. Good luck

You're overstating the RW depth issue a bit. Ehlers was drafted and developed as a RW, Vesalainen plays both, centers can play wing. Teams don't often have depth issues at RW or LW, just depth issues on the wing in general.

 

[LowLefty]

I don't disagree with regards to cap allocation but I think ELC's need to be accounted for in any scenario we are to pursue. An optimistic view on things is we are likely to get some pretty good contributions at center and on defense in Perfetti, Heinola, and Samberg that will stem most of the tide of the remainder of the Wheeler deal. As such there is likely not as much of a need to rebalance our cap. The cap space for a top right dmen can likely be made up of by moving on from Pionk and letting an expensive 4th line player like Lowry walk, and filling Roslovic third line slot with an ELC player like Ves.

If we need another year of Stastney as stop gap for Cole it won't cost the $6.5 million he is making now. So you save another two to three million there.

I guess it depends on how much help we need on D - I believe we still need a #1RHD as a primary hole to fill regardless of what we have in house and coming up through the system - I don't think we have it at this point.
Our backend will be better - but I'd like it to be very good for the reasons I stated. Our forward group, especially the top line, will reap the rewards with a top caliper first pairing. So will our other lines when you consider our sub top pairing will also improve with the addition of a true #1 D.
It's all wishful thinking (at least from my perspective) anyway

 

[surixon]

I guess it depends on how much help we need on D - I believe we still need a #1RHD as a primary hole to fill regardless of what we have in house and coming up through the system - I don't think we have it at this point.
Our backend will be better - but I'd like it to be very good for the reasons I stated. Our forward group, especially the top line, will reap the rewards with a top caliper first pairing. So will our other lines when you consider our sub top pairing will also improve with the addition of a true #1 D.
It's all wishful thinking (at least from my perspective) anyway

I don't disagree with any of that. I personally would love say an Ekblad to pair with JoMo as that would give us a long term solution there.

Having said that given that we are going into an expansion draft season I am quite ok with seeing how JoMo rebounds with a stable defensive minded partner. I think he will be fully healthy and much more equipped to be the "guy" on defense this year. I think it will also give him the opportunity to really round out his offensive and defensive game before taking a much harder run at addressing the top pairing RD slot after the expansion draft.

I see the Jets moving on from Pionk next summer and moving DeMelo into his spot if they can sign say a Hamilton in FA.

To me you try to exhaust getting a number 1 dmen through FA before you look at moving Laine. I think we see yet another bit of a step back from our captain next season so I think it is imperative we keep the heir apparent around if we can find other means of filling the defensive hole.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Just to address a couple points:

You'd give Roslovic more opportunity - how? If your ideal trade brings back another top 6 forward, then there's no additional spot that opens for him there.

Second, I don't see a world where a top line winger, even Laine, returns a top pairing defenceman in a 1-for-1. We'd need an add most likely.

Roslovic centring the 3rd line with Harkins & Appleton. Still 3rd line, but a lot more opportunity than on the shutdown 3rd line with Copp & Lowry.

That depends on how highly you rank Laine. He is not just a top line winger. Those can be 25-25 50 pt scorers, or 60 pt scorers. He is a 40+ goal scorer, maybe a 50 goal scorer. He still has a few too many flaws to use words like generational or even elite. And fixing those flaws may reduce his goal scoring. But even if that happens he should still be a 35 G, ppg winger. I think that kind of winger should and would return a top pairing Dman. Is Laine a half full glass of beer or a half empty glass of beer? That may end up depending on the strength and depth of the other team's D corps and the level of need for scoring.

 

[DeWho]

Playing 23 minutes a night with better underlying numbers than any single Jets defenseman. I'll take a slice of that toast.

He's one collision away from Nolan Patricking his career. That's a moldy slice of bread.

 

[KingBogo]

He's one collision away from Nolan Patricking his career. That's a moldy slice of bread.

Ekblad has missed a grand total of 21 games in his 6 years in the league. That is an average of 3.5 games a season. Which Jets defenseman has come even remotely close to that type of durability over that time frame? Patrice Bergeron was also considered a concussion risk early in his career, but after several seasons without reoccurrence what he does on the ice dictates his value not his previous injury history.

 

[LowLefty]

I don't disagree with any of that. I personally would love say an Ekblad to pair with JoMo as that would give us a long term solution there.

Having said that given that we are going into an expansion draft season I am quite ok with seeing how JoMo rebounds with a stable defensive minded partner. I think he will be fully healthy and much more equipped to be the "guy" on defense this year. I think it will also give him the opportunity to really round out his offensive and defensive game before taking a much harder run at addressing the top pairing RD slot after the expansion draft.

I see the Jets moving on from Pionk next summer and moving DeMelo into his spot if they can sign say a Hamilton in FA.

To me you try to exhaust getting a number 1 dmen through FA before you look at moving Laine. I think we see yet another bit of a step back from our captain next season so I think it is imperative we keep the heir apparent around if we can find other means of filling the defensive hole.

We'll get our chance to see that - I'd also like him to be the 'O" guy on D but I don't see a huge window for him offensively. But who knows - give him a shot - he's earned it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

How do we snag him out of NYI tho'? Is he available? And what would he cost us?
Do you think, Roslovic and say, prospect ( fading) LD Logan Stanley would do it?
( kind of seems a bit meager return for 2 former 1st round picks, however...those 2 picks have not done much overall yet, and Leddy could solidify a need for our roster right away) NYI could save on Cap space, signing Roslo to a smaller "show me/ prove yourself contract & Stanley is ELC peanuts right now.
Jets would need to move or bury Perreault in this scenario tho'?
Leddy comes in at 5.5 mil per for 2 years!

I don't think Leddy is good enough. Period. I saw him looking like a turnstile in the PO.

If NYI retained 1 mil and we save Rosie's projected cap hit, we could fit Leddy in. But I would not trade Rosie for him, straight up.

 

[KingBogo]

Roslovic centring the 3rd line with Harkins & Appleton. Still 3rd line, but a lot more opportunity than on the shutdown 3rd line with Copp & Lowry.

That depends on how highly you rank Laine. He is not just a top line winger. Those can be 25-25 50 pt scorers, or 60 pt scorers. He is a 40+ goal scorer, maybe a 50 goal scorer. He still has a few too many flaws to use words like generational or even elite. And fixing those flaws may reduce his goal scoring. But even if that happens he should still be a 35 G, ppg winger. I think that kind of winger should and would return a top pairing Dman. Is Laine a half full glass of beer or a half empty glass of beer? That may end up depending on the strength and depth of the other team's D corps and the level of need for scoring.

A 35 Goal PPG winger doesn’t get you a #1 Dman unless they are closing in UFA status or on the downward side of their prime. To get a young prime #1 Dman with team control you would have to offer up a top tier winger who drives play and can score 100+ points. Now you are talking Kuch or Panarin level.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So to recap - I guess we never really were going to sign anyone else... and never going to make a splashy deal... but the fantasy trades have been super fun

Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Pionk
Beaulieu-Poolman
Samberg-Sbisa

Not 'terrible' but far from great... need another vezina year and 40+ goal seasons from Scheif, Connor and Laine

First thing you need to do is get Samberg out of the press box.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't disagree with regards to cap allocation but I think ELC's need to be accounted for in any scenario we are to pursue. An optimistic view on things is we are likely to get some pretty good contributions at center and on defense in Perfetti, Heinola, and Samberg that will stem most of the tide of the remainder of the Wheeler deal. As such there is likely not as much of a need to rebalance our cap. The cap space for a top right dmen can likely be made up of by moving on from Pionk and letting an expensive 4th line player like Lowry walk, and filling Roslovic third line slot with an ELC player like Ves.

If we need another year of Stastney as stop gap for Cole it won't cost the $6.5 million he is making now. So you save another two to three million there.

I'm not following this. What cap problem are you solving?

 

[surixon]

I'm not following this. What cap problem are you solving?

Cap distribution isn't as much an issue when you have key players on elc's. That was really all I was getting at.

 

[Weezeric]

Cap distribution isn't as much an issue when you have key players on elc's. That was really all I was getting at.

Seems like a pretty simple point. If Perfetti can be an above average 2C as of next year, then the Jets will have their top 2 centers for under 8M for 3 years. Some teams pay 15-20M to fill those spots, so that money can be allocated elsewhere. It’s the same with Samberg and Heinola, if they can provide top 4D value on ELCs.

 

[Whileee]

As much as I'd like to see Perfetti full-time next season, in the longer term the Jets will likely be much better off if they let Perfetti's ELC slide one year, and start him on his ELC in 2021/22. That way Perfetti's second contract would begin after the expiration of the Scheifele and Wheeler contracts. Hellebuyck and DeMelo also come off the books at that time. The Jets could then sign both Scheifele and Perfetti to big, long-term deals to lock them up (hopefully as their #1/2 C).

 

[surixon]

As much as I'd like to see Perfetti full-time next season, in the longer term the Jets will likely be much better off if they let Perfetti's ELC slide one year, and start him on his ELC in 2021/22. That way Perfetti's second contract would begin after the expiration of the Scheifele and Wheeler contracts. Hellebuyck and DeMelo also come off the books at that time. The Jets could then sign both Scheifele and Perfetti to big, long-term deals to lock them up (hopefully as their #1/2 C).

Yup, that has been my thoughts with regards to Cole and Heinola. Give them this year as development and allow both of their ELC's to slide one more year. It gives us the final 3 years of the Wheeler, Scheifele, Helle deals with some key players on ELC's.

 

[WolfHouse]

First thing you need to do is get Samberg out of the press box.

I'm down with that... but I don't see Maurice doing it. Samberg will be first call up

I still would have rather signed a big D partner for Morrissey - think him and demelo will still get smashed while on the ice

 

[KingBogo]

I'm down with that... but I don't see Maurice doing it. Samberg will be first call up

I still would have rather signed a big D partner for Morrissey - think him and demelo will still get smashed while on the ice

Call up from where? It is very unlikely there will be an AHL season.

 

[WolfHouse]

Call up from where? It is very unlikely there will be an AHL season.

From the press box or whatever bubble they are using...

 

[KingBogo]

From the press box or whatever bubble they are using...

The Jets aren’t going to have their prize prospect sit in the the PB and miss out a season of hockey. They thought he was ready last season but he went back to UMD in hopes of a 3rd national championship.