Speculation: Trade Deadline

[deadhead]

Eklund gonna Eklund, but he's saying that teammates are advocating to keep Simmonds, and Fletcher has said that he'll either trade or re-sign him before the trade deadline.

Problem is it's time to move on to the "next generation," it's not like we're talking a core group that went deep into the playoffs multiple times and can help the kids. The only time they went past the first round was 2011-12, and that team was dominated in the playoffs, only a total meltdown by MAF got them to the second round. Giroux, and ironically, JVR, are the only players on the current roster to have a role in the Flyers making a serious playoff run.

 

[duffy9748]

I didn't say we don't need an upgrade on defense. I said we don't need a veteran defensemen and we definitely don't need to give up assets to get one. That would be a horrible mistake.

The smart upgrade is Myers over MacDonald, both an immediate upgrade and one that will increase as time passes. On top of that, when the team has a real system and players get back to normal (Provorov is underachieving, for example) the defense will be much improved. Also funny how much better everything is now that we have a real goalie...

And saying 9/53 struggled this year is pointless. It means exactly nothing.
They played minimal time together (like 10 games, if I'm remembering correctly) and both were struggling on their own long after that pairing was split up. Provorov was downright awful for the first few months.

So obviously it isn't that the pair won't work, it's that it didn't work in a tiny sample size. In a far larger sample size, it was one of the best in the league.

What do you consider a veteran? A veteran defenseman could be 27 or 28. It’s not a horrible idea to move a package of prospects/picks for a veteran defenseman that can play at a high level for the next 3-5+ years.

 

[Striiker]

What do you consider a veteran? A veteran defenseman could be 27 or 28. It’s not a horrible idea to move a package of prospects/picks for a veteran defenseman that can play at a high level for the next 3-5+ years.

I'd say it is because of the context of the situation. It's simply not a need.

Our D group isn't lacking anything, so long as Myers can be at least a #4. We already have 3 top pair quality defensemen on the roster and two are still far from their primes. I'd bet on some combination of Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers making up our top 2 pairs. Then as for the bottom pair... Morin? Gudas? Hogberg? Ginning? FA? There's plenty of options that don't cost us anything but cap space.

Meanwhile, to get a 20-something year old top 4 defensemen would likely cost us a pretty hefty price, including a forward prospect we shouldn't part with. The future of our forward group is a far bigger question mark than the defense. We need all the high end forward prospects we can get... if anything we should be looking for a way to add more, not sending them away for someone we don't desperately need. We have some good young forwards on the team already and I fully expect them to get even better, but do we have a replacement for Giroux? Voracek? I don't know for sure so we need as many darts to throw at the dartboard as possible. And then obviously players to fill in around our core, both in the near and more medium future.

 

[duffy9748]

I'd say it is because of the context of the situation. It's simply not a need.

Our D group isn't lacking anything, so long as Myers can be at least a #4. We already have 3 top pair quality defensemen on the roster and two are still far from their primes. I'd bet on some combination of Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers making up our top 2 pairs. Then as for the bottom pair... Morin? Gudas? Hogberg? FA? There's plenty of options that don't cost us anything but cap space.

Meanwhile, to get a 20-something year old top 4 defensemen would likely cost us a pretty hefty price, including a forward prospect we shouldn't part with. The future of our forward group is a far bigger question mark than the defense. We need all the high end forward prospects we can get... if anything we should be looking for a way to add more, not sending them away for someone we don't desperately need. We have some good young forwards on the team already and I fully expect them to get even better, but do we have a replacement for Giroux? Voracek? I don't know for sure so we need as many darts to throw at the dartboard as possible. And then obviously players to fill in around our core, both in the near and more medium future.

Our top 4 could be set if Myers hits, but our entire defense could be greatly improved if you acquire a top end guy and push someone down.

I don’t think people on here comprehend how much cap space this team should have this summer. Especially if Gudas is moved like he’s rumored to be.

I’m not advocating trading Frost, Farabee, and a top 10 pick, but there’s not room for half of the prospects in the system. A trade is really the best option.

 

[wankstifier]

Our top 4 could be set if Myers hits, but our entire defense could be greatly improved if you acquire a top end guy and push someone down.

I don’t think people on here comprehend how much cap space this team should have this summer. Especially if Gudas is moved like he’s rumored to be.

Rumors that teams are interested in Gudas, not that the Flyers are interested in moving him.

 

[duffy9748]

Rumors that teams are interested in Gudas, not that the Flyers are interested in moving him.

Teams are interested in McDavid, you don’t see his name in rumors. Gudas doesn’t fit in long term and moving him now speeds up the process. You’re essentially using his return+a little for an upgrade via trade.

 

[deadhead]

I don’t think people on here comprehend how much cap space this team should have this summer. Especially if Gudas is moved like he’s rumored to be.

One year of cap room can't be used to pay 7 years of a mega-contract.
Somehow people fail to grasp this, and don't get that the NHL doesn't allow you to roll over cap space to the next season (which might be something players should lobby for).

The available cap room has to be estimated by Fletcher, taking into account the probable cost of RFA extensions and contracts already on the books, projecting this out for 4 or 5 years.

Now the one/two year cap room can be used to sign/trade for veterans with a couple expensive years left, or to take on bad contracts to sweeten a deal, but it doesn't make a 7yr, $11M deal more affordable.

 

[Striiker]

Our top 4 could be set if Myers hits, but our entire defense could be greatly improved if you acquire a top end guy and push someone down.

I don’t think people on here comprehend how much cap space this team should have this summer. Especially if Gudas is moved like he’s rumored to be.

I’m not advocating trading Frost, Farabee, and a top 10 pick, but there’s not room for half of the prospects in the system. A trade is really the best option.

Sure... just like our forward core could be improved if we go out and find a 1C, but we don't NEED that so it would be an irresponsible usage of assets. Of course we could make the D group better, but it's not worth weakening an already unsure future forward core.

If we can get a top 4 defensemen in FA, then perfect, I'm all for it. But a trade? I wouldn't. You say you don't mean Frost, Farabee, a top 10 pick... but then what's left that's able to get us a defensemen like you described? They're likely not taking lower tier forward prospects for a player like that... it's just not realistic to expect. We don't have room for all our prospects but not all of them are going to be NHL players anyway, so it's really not a logjam. Guys like Strome, Sushko, etc likely never get past the AHL. Like I said, the future forward group is less of a sure thing and it'd be unwise to take away lottery cards right now.

And trading Gudas would be a mistake. If they want to add a top 4 veteran defensemen, it'd be pretty stupid to trade the one you have away. There's no reason he can't be re-signed after next year and play on the bottom pair.

 

[bauer]

i would 100% trade Gudas. his value may never be this high again.

 

[wankstifier]

i would 100% trade Gudas. his value may never be this high again.

Do you want a solid NHL defenseman or two late 2nds?

 

[duffy9748]

Sure... just like our forward core could be improved if we go out and find a 1C, but we don't NEED that so it would be an irresponsible usage of assets. Of course we could make the D group better, but it's not worth weakening an already unsure future forward core.

If we can get a top 4 defensemen in FA, then perfect, I'm all for it. But a trade? I wouldn't. You say you don't mean Frost, Farabee, a top 10 pick... but then what's left that's able to get us a defensemen like you described? They're likely not taking lower tier forward prospects for a player like that... it's just not realistic to expect. We don't have room for all our prospects but not all of them are going to be NHL players anyway, so it's really not a logjam. Guys like Strome, Sushko, etc likely never get past the AHL. Like I said, the future forward group is less of a sure thing and it'd be unwise to take away lottery cards right now.

And trading Gudas would be a mistake. If they want to add a top 4 veteran defensemen, it'd be pretty stupid to trade the one you have away. There's no reason he can't be re-signed after next year and play on the bottom pair.

I wouldn’t move Frost, but I’d have no problem moving Farabee or a pick in the 3-10 range IF the right player was coming back.

2019 1st
2020 1st
O’Brien
Allison/Ratcliffe
Vorobyev/Rubstov
Any assets in return for Simmonds/Gudas

They have a overkill of middle 6 forward prospects. There isn’t going to be a defenseman available via free agency worthy of a big contract. I’d honestly be surprised if there isn’t two or three relatively big additions brought in between now and free agency using picks/prospects.

Move those assets for a defenseman like Trouba/Hamilton/Parayko or someone of that quality. Try and sign Panarin/Stone and then add a vet goalie through trade or free agency.

What do you want Fletcher to do over the next 6 months?

Bottom line is that the Flyers don’t really NEED anything. They’re pretty deep at every position when it comes to top end talent. Hextall did such a great job with the cap though that they’re in a position to add at least 2 players with cap hits in the 6-11M range. Take advantage of it as best you can.

 

[Adam Warlock]

They should trade Hagg. They wont though. He'll be a life time Flyer.

 

[wankstifier]

I wouldn’t move Frost, but I’d have no problem moving Farabee or a pick in the 3-10 range IF the right player was coming back.

2019 1st
2020 1st
O’Brien
Allison/Ratcliffe
Vorobyev/Rubstov
Any assets in return for Simmonds/Gudas

They have a overkill of middle 6 forward prospects. There isn’t going to be a defenseman available via free agency worthy of a big contract. I’d honestly be surprised if there isn’t two or three relatively big additions brought in between now and free agency using picks/prospects.

Move those assets for a defenseman like Trouba/Hamilton/Parayko or someone of that quality. Try and sign Panarin/Stone and then add a vet goalie through trade or free agency.

What do you want Fletcher to do over the next 6 months?

You don't want Karlsson?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They should trade Hagg. They wont though. He'll be a life time Flyer.

What do you think they'll get for him?

 

[duffy9748]

You don't want Karlsson?

I’d be all for it but I expect him to sign back with San Jose. I was 100% on board to go after Tavares last summer and offer a big package for Karlsson. Not sure if Hextall was but many on here were against it which I still cannot understand. Even more difficult to see how fans are okay with minor changes/only improving from within after this season.

Big trades are inevitable with the way this team is set up. It might not be next season when they’re ready to play with Tampa, but they have 3 years left with Couturier on that contract. Also factor in Hart and all the other players who will be on ELC’s and the best rosters this team will have will be in 2020-2021 and 2021-2022.

All they have to do is beat the teams in the Metro and they’re in the conference final. That is very doable by next season if Hart is ready.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

No way I'm trading Frost or Farabee. They are both going to be game changers with top line potential.

We don't "need" a top 4 D. It's fun to think about but it will be very expensive as Striiker mentioned. Now I'm interested in EK as a UFA, he would make our D core absolutely insane. THEN you have the luxury of moving someone if the right deal is there.

I prefer to keep Gudas, however if the piece is Kapanen, then I'm all over that.

Move Hagg for assets along with Simmer. Raffl possibly too.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Since Hagg was an early second rounder, could he fetch a late 1st?

 

[deadhead]

I'd package Ghost and the 1st we get from Simmonds, and maybe a mid-tier prospect for a top RHD defenseman like Trouba/Hamilton/Parayko.
Got to give quality to get quality.

Then Provorov - RHD play 24 minutes a night
Sanheim - Gudas 19 minutes
Morin - Myers 17 minutes
Hagg/Friedman as my 7th D-man

That would be a pretty awesome defense.
Skilled AND physical.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Since Hagg was an early second rounder, could he fetch a late 1st?

Not sure how anyone could expect him to fetch a first rd. pick when he is beaten on constantly and fans are dying to get rid of him. Seems like cognitive dissonance.

I would say that based on the way the majority of this board describes him, you couldn't expect more than a 4th or 5th rd. pick. Roughly what Nick Cousins got, but maybe a round higher because he's a defenseman.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

They should trade Hagg. They wont though. He'll be a life time Flyer.

I guess Hagg isn’t living up to those Mattias Öhlund comparisons.

 

[deadhead]

What do you think they'll get for him?

2nd rd pick.
Young, cost controlled, physical, pair him with a mobile RHD and he'll be solid for a decade.
Just don't expect him to carry a pair.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Not sure how anyone could expect him to fetch a first rd. pick when he is beaten on constantly and fans are dying to get rid of him. Seems like cognitive dissonance.

I would say that based on the way the majority of this board describes him, you couldn't expect more than a 4th or 5th rd. pick. Roughly what Nick Cousins got, but maybe a round higher because he's a defenseman.

Certainly I don't think he's worth more than a 3/4. I'm not sure how he's perceived but he does play physical and teams might think that translates to playoff hockey.

 

[Striiker]

I wouldn’t move Frost, but I’d have no problem moving Farabee or a pick in the 3-10 range IF the right player was coming back.

2019 1st
2020 1st
O’Brien
Allison/Ratcliffe
Vorobyev/Rubstov
Any assets in return for Simmonds/Gudas

They have a overkill of middle 6 forward prospects. There isn’t going to be a defenseman available via free agency worthy of a big contract. I’d honestly be surprised if there isn’t two or three relatively big additions brought in between now and free agency using picks/prospects.

Move those assets for a defenseman like Trouba/Hamilton/Parayko or someone of that quality. Try and sign Panarin/Stone and then add a vet goalie through trade or free agency.

What do you want Fletcher to do over the next 6 months?

Bottom line is that the Flyers don’t really NEED anything. They’re pretty deep at every position when it comes to top end talent. Hextall did such a great job with the cap though that they’re in a position to add at least 2 players with cap hits in the 6-11M range. Take advantage of it as best you can.

Right... they don't NEED anything, which is why making a trade for a defensemen they don't need would be such a terrible idea. They NEED to keep their top forward prospects and trust/hope that they'll fill the holes that are going to be opening up in a few years. Every asset that would realisitcally get a us a defensemen like the ones you listed are needed too much to part with for a luxury player that we don't NEED.

If we can upgrade through FA, do it. But that's it. Bring up prospects, sell at this deadline, clear out trash, get a real coach, and this is going to be a very strong team very soon. It's pretty simple, honestly. The only way for him to f*** it up is with a bad trade, like giving up forward prospects or the mind-blowingly idiotic Ghost ones being proposed.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

2nd seems doable. More ammo to play with.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hogg is a 2nd or 3rd round pick kind of guy. Hard to see him getting a 1st at this stage. Especially since everyone has wised up to the value of draft picks.