GDT: Trade Deadline 2017

[Stickpucker]

I "kinda" agree. To win the cup, I agree they probably need that superstar. But to become a regular playoff team, they can get there by being a very deep team like CLB or the NYR (granted, Nash is a "superstar", but really only once in the last 4 seasons for NY). Those teams just have a lot of really good depth and offensive talent across the board along with good goaltending. Thing is, even if all of Roy, Gauthier, Kuokkanen, Wallmark, etc...reach their potential, Canes are still in need of more offensive talent to get to that point.

The king and Bob are better goalies than anyone we've ever had.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The king and Bob are better goalies than anyone we've ever had.

Right, which is why I said those teams have very good offensive depth along with good goaltending....meaning a team can be competitive without a superstar forward (McDavid, Crosby, etc..) if they have the other pieces.

Right now, Canes have good defensive depth, poor offensive depth and poor goaltending. Unless the latter 2 are addressed, we'll continue to be a poor-mediocre team.

 

[NotOpie]

Right, which is why I said those teams have very good offensive depth along with good goaltending....meaning a team can be competitive without a superstar forward (McDavid, Crosby, etc..) if they have the other pieces.

Right now, Canes have good defensive depth, poor offensive depth and poor goaltending. Unless the latter 2 are addressed, we'll continue to be a poor-mediocre team.

LA has/had Quick, who played well during the season and well in their Cup runs. Chicago had Crawford who played adequately during the season and well in their Cup runs. Pittsburgh had MAF playing adequately during the season and a "Cam Ward-like" Murray during their most recent Cup run. Lots of teams get to the dance, move through a few rounds, and even get to the finals, sometimes winning, with "adequate" goaltending during the season. But Cup champs almost never win it without having a netminder who performs at the highest level.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

LA has/had Quick, who played well during the season and well in their Cup runs. Chicago had Crawford who played adequately during the season and well in their Cup runs. Pittsburgh had MAF playing adequately during the season and a "Cam Ward-like" Murray during their most recent Cup run. Lots of teams get to the dance, move through a few rounds, and even get to the finals, sometimes winning, with "adequate" goaltending during the season.

Not sure what your point is in bringing those guys up as examples NotOpie. You are picking teams that also were some of the more talented and/or deep teams to play. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang...or Kane, Toews, Panarin, Hossa, Keith...or Kopitar, Williams, Carter, Doughty, etc... Yes, I agree you can make it to the dance with "adequate" goaltending if you have a very strong line-up. Point is, the Canes aren't likely to have line-ups like that because we aren't going to get a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, etc.. Unless by some miracle we get elite talent, IMO, our path to the playoffs is going to require strong goaltending and a lot more depth offensively.

But Cup champs almost never win it without having a netminder who performs at the highest level.

Mostly that's true, but we gotta walk before we even think about running. On the flipside, the Flyers almost won the cup with Leighton in goal.

 

[caniac247]

I'm more sour on the goaltending than the offense. I'm so sick of the team playing decent and then the other team scores because our goalies suck. I'm tired of our goalies not making the save that needs to be made. Cam makes some spectacular saves, but I never see those saves when they are much needed. Haven't seen that since his save on Pisani in game 7. If deflates the team. When it happens you can see the air come out of the players, like here we go again. Playing well, creating chances, then bam, other team scores.

If GMRF only does 1 thing this off season, I sure as hell hope it's to change our goalie dual. Not saying both have to go, but one has to and we need to bring in a above-average goalie.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Fixing the goaltending is priority #1 for me. We simply cannot go into next season with a tandem of Ward/Lack. I would personally make a push to dump Lack and sign Bishop, but whatever the case, we have to make an improvement at the position.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No doubt the team needs better goaltending, but getting better scoring is equally, if not more important. There are too many close games where a goal scored or a goal prevented could have been the difference. Doesn't matter how you skin the cat. A lot of the times when the team carries the play, it doesn't result in goals scored. For the past 3 seasons combined (Peter's Tenure), the Canes are top 10 in the NHL in 5v5 Shots For / 60 min, YET, the are 27th in Goals For / 60 min. That's not bad luck, that's bad talent.

Like I said earlier, Canes are 23rd in the NHL in GF/GP and not 1 single team outside the top 20 is in a playoff spot today. Fixing the goaltending will be nice, but IMO, the Canes are not a playoff team if that's all he fixes.

 

[Wolfpuck]

No doubt the team needs better goaltending, but getting better scoring is equally, if not more important. There are too many close games where a goal scored or a goal prevented could have been the difference. Doesn't matter how you skin the cat. A lot of the times when the team carries the play, it doesn't result in goals scored. For the past 3 seasons combined (Peter's Tenure), the Canes are top 10 in the NHL in 5v5 Shots For / 60 min, YET, the are 27th in Goals For / 60 min. That's not bad luck, that's bad talent.

Like I said earlier, Canes are 23rd in the NHL in GF/GP and not 1 single team outside the top 20 is in a playoff spot today. Fixing the goaltending will be nice, but IMO, the Canes are not a playoff team if that's all he fixes.

Oh yeah, I don't disagree there. Hopefully we can at least take advantage of the expansion draft to poach a top 6 forward or two from someone. We certainly won't be using all 11 draft picks this year, so we have an opportunity to make some good moves.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

It feels like we *might* have some answers in the system for forward.

It feels like we have *no* answers in the system for goal.

 

[Wolfpuck]

It feels like we *might* have some answers in the system for forward.

It feels like we have *no* answers in the system for goal.

At least in the immediate future. If it takes a 5 year contract to get Bishop, and Ned is ready in 3 years, we'll sort it out then. We have a real chance to make immediate improvement this offseason. I hope we can take advantage of that.

 

[NotOpie]

Not sure what your point is in bringing those guys up as examples NotOpie. You are picking teams that also were some of the more talented and/or deep teams to play. Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang...or Kane, Toews, Panarin, Hossa, Keith...or Kopitar, Williams, Carter, Doughty, etc... Yes, I agree you can make it to the dance with "adequate" goaltending if you have a very strong line-up. Point is, the Canes aren't likely to have line-ups like that because we aren't going to get a Crosby, Malkin, Kane, etc.. Unless by some miracle we get elite talent, IMO, our path to the playoffs is going to require strong goaltending and a lot more depth offensively.

Mostly that's true, but we gotta walk before we even think about running. On the flipside, the Flyers almost won the cup with Leighton in goal.

Yes the teams were indeed very talented and you rightly identify what my point was (as I wasn't saying that this situation occurred in a vacuum). The key is that you can get to the dance with adequate goaltending, but your netminder has to be one of the best players on your team April thru June, if not THE best.

I totally agree about the crawling before walking. I'm just inclined to define the upgrade in net less rigorously than some. And I don't prioritize getting more scoring over fixing the goalie situation. We need more scoring and need it badly, but that might just be a single guy, a guy who can take the defensive pressure off of other potential scorers. Fixing the net might just be having a more capable back up.

I'd be happy to see baby steps in either of these directions. I viewed Teravainen as "potential" and thought that Stempniak was solid secondary scoring. We still need another guy who can put the puck in the net.

EDIT: ....didn't Leighton play out of his mind most of that series. It was like his last or last two games where he fell back to earth, but my memory is hazy on that.

 

[NotOpie]

No doubt the team needs better goaltending, but getting better scoring is equally, if not more important. There are too many close games where a goal scored or a goal prevented could have been the difference. Doesn't matter how you skin the cat. A lot of the times when the team carries the play, it doesn't result in goals scored. For the past 3 seasons combined (Peter's Tenure), the Canes are top 10 in the NHL in 5v5 Shots For / 60 min, YET, the are 27th in Goals For / 60 min. That's not bad luck, that's bad talent.

Like I said earlier, Canes are 23rd in the NHL in GF/GP and not 1 single team outside the top 20 is in a playoff spot today. Fixing the goaltending will be nice, but IMO, the Canes are not a playoff team if that's all he fixes.

That is some damning data right there and reinforces the need for more offensive talent.

Another interesting and maybe related tidbit is that we won something like 8 one-goal games (not counting shootouts), but lost about 15 one goal games (again, shootouts excluded). I recall both Peters and Francis talking about 1 goal games for both of the last two off-seasons.

As BBA said, you either score goals to win those games or you prevent them from being scored.

 

[tarheelhockey]

At least in the immediate future. If it takes a 5 year contract to get Bishop, and Ned is ready in 3 years, we'll sort it out then. We have a real chance to make immediate improvement this offseason. I hope we can take advantage of that.

Has Ned shown any indication that he should be taken seriously as a guy who could be ready at any point in the future?

(non-sarcastic)

 

[Wolfpuck]

Has Ned shown any indication that he should be taken seriously as a guy who could be ready at any point in the future?

(non-sarcastic)

I don't know, and I guess that sort of reinforces my point about prioritizing the goaltending situation. Help is certainly not on the way from within, at least short term. Dave would have a better insight into Ned's trajectory (or any other goalie prospect, for that matter).

I know Bishop (I keep naming him simply because he's an obvious solution) would be pricey, but he's a sure thing. Darling or Grubauer or whoever else feels like rolling the dice again like we did with Lack.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yes the teams were indeed very talented and you rightly identify what my point was (as I wasn't saying that this situation occurred in a vacuum). The key is that you can get to the dance with adequate goaltending,

Yeah, I get what you are saying, but you are using examples of extremely talented teams getting there with "adequate" goaltending. Canes aren't even close to those teams talent wise, which is why I was questioning your choice. But I do agree, it's a team sport. A team that has very talented skaters, can make it to the dance with only "adequate" goaltending. Similarly, a less talented team can get there with a great goalie as well (see how MTL fell off when Price got injured). Problem is, Canes aren't close to being a very talented team.

but your netminder has to be one of the best players on your team April thru June, if not THE best.

Agree. That will be a concern once we get there.

I totally agree about the crawling before walking. I'm just inclined to define the upgrade in net less rigorously than some. And I don't prioritize getting more scoring over fixing the goalie situation. We need more scoring and need it badly, but that might just be a single guy, a guy who can take the defensive pressure off of other potential scorers. Fixing the net might just be having a more capable back up.

This is where we don't see eye to eye. If we change nothing else, a small upgrade at goalie won't move the needle much at all IMO. We'll still be on the outside looking in. Keep in mind, that other than really Faulk last year, this team has not seen any major injuries the last 2 seasons either. It's been about as healthy as one can get (only 3 teams have less man games lost this season) and odds are, that won't continue to happen.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know, and I guess that sort of reinforces my point about prioritizing the goaltending situation. Help is certainly not on the way from within, at least short term. Dave would have a better insight into Ned's trajectory (or any other goalie prospect, for that matter).

I know Bishop (I keep naming him simply because he's an obvious solution) would be pricey, but he's a sure thing. Darling or Grubauer or whoever else feels like rolling the dice again like we did with Lack.

I'm still hoping we can somehow maneuver our way into picking up Fleury. Otherwise, we kind of have to go for Bishop. I mean we simply cannot move forward with 33-year-old Cam and a black hole at backup. At this point, holding pat basically means just giving up.

 

[NotOpie]

This is where we don't see eye to eye. If we change nothing else, a small upgrade at goalie won't move the needle much at all IMO. We'll still be on the outside looking in. Keep in mind, that other than really Faulk last year, this team has not seen any major injuries the last 2 seasons either. It's been about as healthy as one can get (only 3 teams have less man games lost this season) and odds are, that won't continue to happen.

Yup, we've had our fair share of injuries in the past, guess everything returns to the mean.

I'm probably beating a dead horse and not really doing a very good job of it. Still, we're in agreement on the need to improve goal scoring. And I think we will need a personnel upgrade to get there. But I don't think it will take 2 or 3 or 4 new guys. I think we'll continue to see some improvement from our youngsters, maybe see one of next year's rookies step up, but mostly I think if we had another viable offensive threat, it would change the way teams defend us. That should open things up for other scorers. I liken it to when Jeff Skinner was playing on the 3rd line against other 3rd liners, there was often a mismatch and Skins had the advantage. That's not the exact situation I'm suggesting, but if Skinner had a true scoring threat on his right wing, or Jordan had a true scoring threat on his left wing, it changes the way opposing teams defend.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I'm still hoping we can somehow maneuver our way into picking up Fleury. Otherwise, we kind of have to go for Bishop. I mean we simply cannot move forward with 33-year-old Cam and a black hole at backup. At this point, holding pat basically means just giving up.

There's no denying that, but at the same time, unless the belief is that Bishop or Fleury will allow 1 or less goal in the majority of the games, it's likely we'd end up in the same situation we're in now. Better goaltending, but not enough to overcome a stagnant offense.

2 or less goals scored in over half the games thus far makes it difficult to say a change in goal will make a big difference.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Fortunately, fixing the goaltending and offense aren't mutually exclusive. The possibilities are there, it's just a matter of Francis making it happen this summer.

 

[tarheelhockey]

There's no denying that, but at the same time, unless the belief is that Bishop or Fleury will allow 1 or less goal in the majority of the games, it's likely we'd end up in the same situation we're in now. Better goaltending, but not enough to overcome a stagnant offense.

2 or less goals scored in over half the games thus far makes it difficult to say a change in goal will make a big difference.

So why not just throw Mike Murphy in there? **** it, we don't need NHL goaltending moving forward. We don't score enough.

I for one would like to no longer have a bottom-rung starter at the most important position on the team.

 

[RodTheBawd]

There's no denying that, but at the same time, unless the belief is that Bishop or Fleury will allow 1 or less goal in the majority of the games, it's likely we'd end up in the same situation we're in now. Better goaltending, but not enough to overcome a stagnant offense.

2 or less goals scored in over half the games thus far makes it difficult to say a change in goal will make a big difference.

But don't you see? Having a better goaltender will prevent the Canes from getting "deflated" and keep them scoring 3+ a game, thereby deflating the other team and preventing them from scoring at all!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

But don't you see? Having a better goaltender will prevent the Canes from getting "deflated" and keep them scoring 3+ a game, thereby deflating the other team and preventing them from scoring at all!

So all we need is deflate-gate?

 

[RodTheBawd]

^This guy gets it.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

But don't you see? Having a better goaltender will prevent the Canes from getting "deflated" and keep them scoring 3+ a game, thereby deflating the other team and preventing them from scoring at all!

Certainly possible. Of course, it's also possible that they're getting deflated because they know they can't score a lot, and thus, giving up any goal is a backbreaker.

 

[Ole Gil]

Theoretically, if the canes had an offense, when they dominate play for 10 minutes, then the goalie gives up a softy, the score will be 2-1 instead of 0-1.