GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[justashadowof]

This is my first post here since the Leafs collapse to Habs. Its crazy, this is the most disinterested I've felt as a Leaf fan from as long as I can remember. I keep thinking as camp approaches I might feel different, but nothing yet. I'm expecting the worst going into this season. IF, and thats a huge IF, the leafs make the playoffs and win a round - only then do I feel like I'll probably start tuning in. What a shame, following this team is almost ruining my passion for hockey. Anyway, if there was a 2nd Toronto expansion team or even somewhere in GTA, I would be so ready to jump ship.

I'm not jumping ship, it's Leafs or nothing. My rabid interest for the Leafs waned before the 2021 playoff debacle. Overall the NHL has become a demoralizing product with its flood of corporate branding and managers who seem less like hockey people and more like corporate reptiles pretending to be warm blooded. It's pretty clear to me at least that a huge opportunity was wasted here. It's a talented team lacking a commitment to winning in the playoffs as a goal that has resorted to second rate mercenaries to stem the decline. There were certainly darker times (many) but the expectation to reality ratio is terrible. When the Quinn teams started slipping as JFJ took over, it was an inevitable decline due to expected aging of a team past its prime. This one is just painful.

 

[Magic Man]

There have been a few suggestions, that Reilly is close to extending now, on a "team friendly" deal. I have no idea what "close" or "team friendly" mean, or if these are just media types guessing, instead of good info. The original source, whom I can't recall, is somewhat connected though. Apparently the deal would be signed before the season starts. We shall see.

It makes sense to me that Dubas would be hard at work on an extension for Rielly. He did say he did not want to go into the season with Rielly not extended. There were rumours they were waiting until August. The team is set and capped out. All he has left to do is sign Malgin and bring in some people to camp on PTO's and see if they earn anything. There were rumours that he would sign a team friendly deal before FA, now there is one floating around that he will sign before camp team friendly. He's probably just speculating based on the past rumours, but it makes sense.

Right now has to be all about getting Rielly signed or moved before the season starts. That should be his focus as GM.

 

[Fogelhund]

It makes sense to me that Dubas would be hard at work on an extension for Rielly. He did say he did not want to go into the season with Rielly not extended. There were rumours they were waiting until August. The team is set and capped out. All he has left to do is sign Malgin and bring in some people to camp on PTO's and see if they earn anything. There were rumours that he would sign a team friendly deal before FA, now there is one floating around that he will sign before camp team friendly. He's probably just speculating based on the past rumours, but it makes sense.

Right now has to be all about getting Rielly signed or moved before the season starts. That should be his focus as GM.

I don't agree that he needs to be moved before the season starts. If we aren't going to resign him at all, I'd agree he needs to be moved, but not at any cost. There has to be the right deal for us, and likely we also have to find an experienced player to replace him too... That isn't necessarily easy. We might have to wait, until another team has a need, and is willing to pay the right price.

Not letting him walk, for no return has to be the focus... Of course sign him as the priority... a trade before the trade deadline is key... obviously the sooner, the better.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't agree that he needs to be moved before the season starts. If we aren't going to resign him at all, I'd agree he needs to be moved, but not at any cost. There has to be the right deal for us, and likely we also have to find an experienced player to replace him too... That isn't necessarily easy. We might have to wait, until another team has a need, and is willing to pay the right price.

Not letting him walk, for no return has to be the focus... Of course sign him as the priority... a trade before the trade deadline is key... obviously the sooner, the better.

I just figured the price would probably be highest before the season starts in trade, while he has a full year to play and re-negotiate with that team. But, I guess I would still be satisfied if he waits a couple months into the season and re-signs him or trades him with optimal value in return. They do need to come to a resolution that doesn't include an own rental. Not on this piece. He's too important.

 

[Mugzy97]

I just figured the price would probably be highest before the season starts in trade, while he has a full year to play and re-negotiate with that team. But, I guess I would still be satisfied if he waits a couple months into the season and re-signs him or trades him with optimal value in return. They do need to come to a resolution that doesn't include an own rental. Not on this piece. He's too important.

There's risk for Rielly to not get it done as well. He could suffer an injury mid season that costs him 10's of millions of dollars.

 

[VanW27]

I don't agree that he needs to be moved before the season starts. If we aren't going to resign him at all, I'd agree he needs to be moved, but not at any cost. There has to be the right deal for us, and likely we also have to find an experienced player to replace him too... That isn't necessarily easy. We might have to wait, until another team has a need, and is willing to pay the right price.

Not letting him walk, for no return has to be the focus... Of course sign him as the priority... a trade before the trade deadline is key... obviously the sooner, the better.

That all makes sense, the problem is teams don't operate that way. Teams in a playoff position rarely trade a key piece like Rielly, the only way he's moved at the deadline is if we are out of the playoff picture. Even an early season trade is unlikely unless we get off to a poor start and need a shakeup.

When Rielly wasn't traded around UFA day this past summer it pretty much locked us in to the sign or let walk scenario - barring us turning into sellers this year.

 

[axlrose87]

The subset of fans has nothing to do with people that like or dislike Dubas, it's people that view and judge decisions in isolation and don't stop to think about if they're connected.

Because they're not "two different things", it's the same decision about weighing icing the best team this season/playoff vs. strengthening the org for the future. And unless you're completely onboard with essentially throwing this season and icing a sub-optimal roster that's well below the cap- regardless of how well the team does between now and the deadline- a "letting Rielly walk for nothing is a major failure" stance is hypocritical nonsense because if we did trade Rielly now we'd be setting up a situation where "not using assets and cap space to ice the best team possible going into the playoffs is a major failure" would become the prevailing mantra.

Now- there *one* exception to that point, which is to move Rielly and use the assets/cap space to get back a player that can both help now and has term, but that's a very fine needle to thread.

This roster is no where near good enough to win the cup…. So what are we doing exactly?
We can’t even get out of the first round and the roster isn’t quite as good as last year.
Eventually, we need to think about future years as well. We can’t just keep going all in and squandering picks and prospects and letting ufas walk every year.
This gm is way too emotionally attached to this core of players. That is a terrible quality to have in a gm (especially when they are quite unsuccessful).
Finding the balance between recouping assets and icing a competitive team is very difficult to do. It is why general managers are paid millions of dollars. Our gm is not doing this. He is just letting his emotions guide the way and it is hurting the franchise.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This roster is no where near good enough to win the cup….

This roster could absolutely win the cup.

 

[Kurtz]

This roster could absolutely win the cup.

Vegas has us as the 4th or 5th highest odds to win the cup, so your statement is objectively true as of now.

 

[ToneDog]

Vegas has us as the 4th or 5th highest odds to win the cup, so your statement is objectively true as of now.

Vegas had us first a couple of times a few years back. They just want Leaf nation money.

 

[ToneDog]

There's risk for Rielly to not get it done as well. He could suffer an injury mid season that costs him 10's of millions of dollars.

Never stopped Tavares, but you are right. Although 10's of millions of dollars is a stretch unless he suffers a catastrophic injury.

 

[Mugzy97]

Never stopped Tavares, but you are right. Although 10's of millions of dollars is a stretch unless he suffers a catastrophic injury.

An 8 year deal worth roughly 60M compared to a 2 year deal worth 15M… could stack up pretty quick if people aren’t confident you can continue to play

 

[ToneDog]

An 8 year deal worth roughly 60M compared to a 2 year deal worth 15M… could stack up pretty quick if people aren’t confident you can continue to play

I would classify that as having a catastrophic injury. Barring that he would have to suck this year and a couple of previous years like Hall. A broken bone or knee injury probably won't cost him. It sure a heck did not cost Hyman.

 

[axlrose87]

This roster could absolutely win the cup.

Technically, any roster can win the cup.
At least us leafs fans seem have very short memories and unending optimism

 

[Fogelhund]

Technically, any roster can win the cup.
At least us leafs fans seem have very short memories and unending optimism

Some have short memories, and unending optimism.

Some have short memories and unending pessimism.

 

[Ginger Papa]

Hi everyone, hope this Thread is the right one as I couldn’t find a more relevant Title.

For those who don’t subscribe to THG. He’s not an insider or anything, just a fan of the Game who does a nice job of keeping up with the NHL and puts out a fair amount of content, which is nice during the off-season.

I thought some of you might enjoy his Season preview for the Team during these slow news days of August, or perhaps share this with someone just learning about the Team.

I find that although THG isn’t the most exciting personality, he breaks things down nicely for those newer to the Game or looking for regular content of the non-biased variety.



Hope you’re all doing well and enjoying the summer with your families.

Cheers,

 

[Captain Crunch]

I just figured the price would probably be highest before the season starts in trade, while he has a full year to play and re-negotiate with that team. But, I guess I would still be satisfied if he waits a couple months into the season and re-signs him or trades him with optimal value in return. They do need to come to a resolution that doesn't include an own rental. Not on this piece. He's too important.

If the season starts and Rielly is still on the team, the only way he will be traded is if we have little to no chance of making the playoffs by the trade deadline. And if that’s the case, we could have yet another UFA walk after the season with no compensation. Hopefully that does not happen.

 

[Rielly4]

We are kind of in a tough spot though. We need Rielly for this year but also we dont wanna pay him 8 million only to have him not even be our #1 PP d man. Sandin very well may outplay him for the top powerplay spot, if that happens we let him walk if it becomes clear Rielly we re-sign him. It sucks but the only way we dont re-sign him is if we get a better idea that Sandin is going to be our top offensive d man for special teams.

 

[geo25]

This roster is no where near good enough to win the cup…. So what are we doing exactly?
We can’t even get out of the first round and the roster isn’t quite as good as last year.
Eventually, we need to think about future years as well. We can’t just keep going all in and squandering picks and prospects and letting ufas walk every year.
This gm is way too emotionally attached to this core of players. That is a terrible quality to have in a gm (especially when they are quite unsuccessful).
Finding the balance between recouping assets and icing a competitive team is very difficult to do. It is why general managers are paid millions of dollars. Our gm is not doing this. He is just letting his emotions guide the way and it is hurting the franchise.

 

[geo25]

He should be ruthless...like Yzerman for example

 

[Mugzy97]

This roster is no where near good enough to win the cup…. So what are we doing exactly?
We can’t even get out of the first round and the roster isn’t quite as good as last year.
Eventually, we need to think about future years as well. We can’t just keep going all in and squandering picks and prospects and letting ufas walk every year.
This gm is way too emotionally attached to this core of players. That is a terrible quality to have in a gm (especially when they are quite unsuccessful).
Finding the balance between recouping assets and icing a competitive team is very difficult to do. It is why general managers are paid millions of dollars. Our gm is not doing this. He is just letting his emotions guide the way and it is hurting the franchise.

What a terrible take. Our core is still very young and sticking with it will likely be an excellent idea.

 

[Dreakmur]

He should be ruthless...like Yzerman for example

He should do exactly what he thinks should be done. He has a vision, and he should follow it.

I personally don’t believe in his vision, but that’s the only possible way for him to succeed. A mishmash of ideas won’t ever work.

 

[ToneDog]

He should do exactly what he thinks should be done. He has a vision, and he should follow it.

I personally don’t believe in his vision, but that’s the only possible way for him to succeed. A mishmash of ideas won’t ever work.

We are basically back to being good but not good enough, finishing with a low draft pick, trading assets and not being able to take the next step. The difference is that we have a unicorn and 3 very good core players who unfortunately are eating up 50% of a flat cap. The only way to get to the next level, until some of Dubas' picks make the big team (Hunter's won't), is for 34 and/or 16 to take them there with the help of 91 and 88. So far they have shown that they are not capable of doing that.

 

[VanW27]

He should do exactly what he thinks should be done. He has a vision, and he should follow it.

I personally don’t believe in his vision, but that’s the only possible way for him to succeed. A mishmash of ideas won’t ever work.

Underrated comment, a big part of why bad teams so often stay bad for so long is the turnover at the management and coaching levels. Bad team hire's new GM, team misses playoffs-->GM fires coach, miss playoffs again --> GM gets fired, miss playoffs again --> new GM fires coach, and the cycle continues..

I can't say I'm happy with what Dubas has done the last couple years but in order to really know what we have, and if his vision can work he needs more time with his coach (Keefe). The constant turnover causes teams to jump from one approach to another and never really accomplish what the GMs/coaches want.

 

[Dreakmur]

Underrated comment, a big part of why bad teams so often stay bad for so long is the turnover at the management and coaching levels. Bad team hire's new GM, team misses playoffs-->GM fires coach, miss playoffs again --> GM gets fired, miss playoffs again --> new GM fires coach, and the cycle continues..

I can't say I'm happy with what Dubas has done the last couple years but in order to really know what we have, and if his vision can work he needs more time with his coach (Keefe). The constant turnover causes teams to jump from one approach to another and never really accomplish what the GMs/coaches want.

I’m less concerned with turnover and more concerned with a GM’s lack of faith in their plan. Dubas seems to be wavering, and that’s a really bad sign.

I think his ideas are wrong… but he should know they’re right. Who cares what anyone else thinks, he should execute his vision. I’m not sure we’ll ever see his vision, even if he stays