GDT: Trade and Free Agency Thread - Training camp approaches

[zeke]

Seems we're in a weird convo here.

A group of people seem to be angry that we haven't traded Rielly for either a) a better dman on a better contract, which seems unrealistic, or b) a lesser dman.

And ignoring that even if we don't re-sign him, we could use that capspace to sign another dman, perhaps a better one and/or a better contract, much like we did when we let Barrie walk and signed Brodie.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Cost to acquire aside, Ellis costs 6.25m per year, is a right-side defenseman, and is signed for 6 years until he's 36, coming off a disappointing year. Not sure he would have been a great target for us. That's a big risk. Bean is nowhere close to an adequate Rielly replacement.

We just saw Ben F'in Chiarot shut down our first line. You guys overrate Rielly's impact on the game today. If he's not signed by beginning of season the focus should shift on optimal Rielly turnover. This shouldn't be dismissed just because arm chair gms on a message board claim we won't get anyone. In real life teams with the picks and prospects get the players so I'll stick to real life.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We just saw Ben F'in Chiarot shut down our first line.

We didn't though.

You guys overrate Rielly's impact on the game today.

Sounds like we'd survive losing him to UFA next year then, eh?

In real life teams with the picks and prospects get the players so I'll stick to real life.

In real life, competitive teams don't trade away a player like Rielly in a situation like this.

 

[Fogelhund]

Cost to acquire aside, Ellis costs 6.25m per year, is a right-side defenseman, and is signed for 6 years until he's 36, coming off a disappointing year. Not sure he would have been a great target for us. That's a big risk. Bean is nowhere close to an adequate Rielly replacement.

Disappointing season? 0.5PPG, 5 pts in 6 games in playoffs All on a team that finished third last in scoring? Their top forward had 32 points last year.

We had six guys over 30 points. Spezza would have been their second highest scoring forward last year.



I'd agree on Bean, not being a complete replacement, but might be able to grow into a serviceable guy, along with Sandin... cost wasn't much.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

We just saw Ben F'in Chiarot shut down our first line. You guys overrate Rielly's impact on the game today. If he's not signed by beginning of season the focus should shift on optimal Rielly turnover. This shouldn't be dismissed just because arm chair gms on a message board claim we won't get anyone. In real life teams with the picks and prospects get the players so I'll stick to real life.

That is true, but that is because they get players who are available. The logical train of thought is not "I have picks and therefore options are now out there", it is "I have picks, so now can get someone if they become available". The problem is, nobody is available right now even if we have the assets, and we are not in a position where we can move a #1 defenseman and wait for his replacement to show themselves.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

We didn't though.

Sounds like we'd survive losing him to UFA next year then, eh?

In real life, competitive teams don't trade away a player like Rielly in a situation like this.

Personally I would rather the leafs actually make it through the first round for the first time in like 2 decades before multiple (all) high valued UFAs are kept. Might even give this team a kick in the ass to see UFAs sold.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Disappointing season?

Yes. He's a 30-year old defenseman who has been injured a lot recently, is coming off a down year, and is signed at a considerable cap hit for the next 6 years. That's a massive risk. He doesn't even play the same side as Rielly, and I can only imagine the comments around here if we sent out good assets for a tiny defenseman. This doesn't make us better now, and it would have the potential to sabotage the team's future.

I'd agree on Bean, not being a complete replacement, but might be able to grow into a serviceable guy, along with Sandin... cost wasn't much.

Cost wasn't much for a reason. We already have Sandin and Liljegren. Not sure why we'd want Bean too, at a considerable cap hit for what he brings.

Personally I would rather the leafs actually make it through the first round for the first time in like 2 decades before multiple (all) high valued UFAs are kept. Might even give this team a kick in the ass to see UFAs sold.

You want to advance further, so your plan is to make ourselves worse? Bold strategy.

 

[ACC1224]

IMO, no GM in the Leafs situation trades a player like Rielly unless you're certain the Team is better off for it.
He walks at the end of the year, so be it. Cost of doing business when you view yourself as a contender.

 

[ToneDog]

IMO, no GM in the Leafs situation trades a player like Rielly unless you're certain the Team is better off for it.
He walks at the end of the year, so be it. Cost of doing business when you view yourself as a contender.

That is the key. I have no idea what this team is until we see them for 20+ games. If management views them as contenders based on the season, keep Rielly as an own-rental and then fail to get past round #1, it will be another huge mistake which probably costs Dubas and Keefe their jobs.

The way I see it, another first round loss and senior management probably decides to move on from the core 4. That most likely means Marner or Nylander are moved, in which case you probably no longer want Dubas making such a trade.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Yes. He's a 30-year old defenseman who has been injured a lot recently, is coming off a down year, and is signed at a considerable cap hit for the next 6 years. That's a massive risk. He doesn't even play the same side as Rielly, and I can only imagine the comments around here if we sent out good assets for a tiny defenseman. This doesn't make us better now, and it would have the potential to sabotage the team's future.

Cost wasn't much for a reason. We already have Sandin and Liljegren. Not sure why we'd want Bean too, at a considerable cap hit for what he brings.

You want to advance further, so your plan is to make ourselves worse? Bold strategy.

My strategy is about winning a cup. Spending assets pretty much every deadline while also not getting assets back for every UFA on the team isn't a great strategy if you haven't even shown you can make it past the 1st round.

 

[Dekes For Days]

My strategy is about winning a cup.

In that case, we shouldn't be making our team worse in a competitive year.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

In that case, we shouldn't be making our team worse in a competitive year.

Is it really a competitive year? Are they really cup contenders because from what they have shown they are not. They would have had way more liquid assets if the team didn't trade for rentals pretty much every deadline and/or traded away some of their UFAs before they had even won anything.

Rielly walking for free would be pretty brutal especially if they don't go anywhere in the playoffs again

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is it really a competitive year?

Yes, it quite obviously is.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Yes, it quite obviously is.

Try responding to the rest of my post. It is rude when someone takes the time to reply to you at length but you only respond to a very limited portion...

 

[Kiwi]

Seems we're in a weird convo here.

A group of people seem to be angry that we haven't traded Rielly for either a) a better dman on a better contract, which seems unrealistic, or b) a lesser dman.

And ignoring that even if we don't re-sign him, we could use that capspace to sign another dman, perhaps a better one and/or a better contract, much like we did when we let Barrie walk and signed Brodie.

In Case it's missed your notice the market for defenseman last season looks nothing like the market for defenseman this season

You would be high if your thinking you could have got Brodie signed for that contract this season

Hell, bottom pairing guys/scrubs we getting term and AAV's over 2M this off-season

So unless the market does a complete 180 there's no way in hell your getting somebody as good or better with Rielly's cap money

The reason we are talking about a trade is BECAUSE we know he's unaffordable under our current cap constraints

What your saying is unrealistic at best

 

[Dekes For Days]

Try responding to the rest of my post.

There's nothing else to respond to. We are in a competitive year. We have a great team. We have a shot at the cup. That's when you go for it. That is not when you make your team worse to try and obtain futures. Rielly leaving in UFA would suck, but if it comes to that, we will survive.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

There's nothing else to respond to. We are in a competitive year. We have a great team. We have a shot at the cup. That's when you go for it. That is not when you make your team worse to try and obtain futures. Rielly leaving in UFA would suck, but if it comes to that, we will survive.

If it was just Rielly you would have a point. However there is a trend of letting highly valued UFAs walk while also paying picks at the deadline for rentals. They have yet to make it past the first round. That is not sustainable

 

[Dreakmur]

There's nothing else to respond to. We are in a competitive year. We have a great team. We have a shot at the cup. That's when you go for it. That is not when you make your team worse to try and obtain futures. Rielly leaving in UFA would suck, but if it comes to that, we will survive.

This core is as good as it will ever be. If you believe in them like Dubas does, you go for it.

I’m not sure he’s right, but I’m not sure he’s wrong either.

I am sure that our chances with this core won’t get better than they are right now, so I’d keep Rielly and give it another shot.

 

[fahad203]

This core is as good as it will ever be. If you believe in them like Dubas does, you go for it.

I’m not sure he’s right, but I’m not sure he’s wrong either.

I am sure that our chances with this core won’t get better than they are right now, so I’d keep Rielly and give it another shot.

This is as good as team Leafs had in long long time. Probably since Mogilny, Sundin Robert days. So you go for it
But having good horses means nothing if your jockey sucks and Keefe is the jockey. And he really sucks

I would felt better with Keumpher in net though. I know the price to be paid was high but if he's the difference between winning me a series or not, I would have paid the price

You just cannot to have a mediocre goaltending

 

[Dekes For Days]

If it was just Rielly you would have a point. However there is a trend of letting highly valued UFAs walk while also paying picks at the deadline for rentals.

This is wildly exaggerated. Rielly would be the first real "high value" UFA. We have gained more from UFA under this management than we have lost to UFA, but people only seem to consider what's leaving. We also don't really have a trend of obtaining rentals. In 2019, we got Muzzin. Not a rental. In 2020, we got Campbell. Not a rental. This was the first year we really targeted rentals, and that was absolutely justified.

We have a great team, and we have a legitimate chance at the cup. This is when you go for it. This is not when you make your team worse to accumulate futures.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That is the key. I have no idea what this team is until we see them for 20+ games. If management views them as contenders based on the season, keep Rielly as an own-rental and then fail to get past round #1, it will be another huge mistake which probably costs Dubas and Keefe their jobs.

The way I see it, another first round loss and senior management probably decides to move on from the core 4. That most likely means Marner or Nylander are moved, in which case you probably no longer want Dubas making such a trade.

They've viewed themselves as contenders quite a few seasons now and JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Barrie, Hyman, Komarov and now potentially Rielly could walk for nothing. To a much lesser extent, Mikhayev could depart.

Now are we better off with them on our roster? Yes. You keep gambling that you're a contender though and pieces walk, it hurts the franchise. If we're borderline a playoff team around the TDL, they should trade Rielly just as STL did with Shattenkirk.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Yes but none of them is Rielly so it's different.

They’re actually all very different in circumstances. The only one that’s even close is Seth Jones, and he made it clear he wasn’t re-upping in CLB. Has Mo made that stance?

 

[Nylanderthal]

They've viewed themselves as contenders quite a few seasons now and JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Barrie, Hyman, Komarov and now potentially Rielly could walk for nothing. To a much lesser extent, Mikhayev could depart.

Now are we better off with them on our roster? Yes. You keep gambling that you're a contender though and pieces walk, it hurts the franchise. If we're borderline a playoff team around the TDL, they should trade Rielly just as STL did with Shattenkirk.

Jvr and bozak were walked to UFA because we signed Tavares, the rest are all middling guys competing teams turn over every season. Would you want any of those contracts on the books? Aren’t you a blackhawks fan?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

This is wildly exaggerated. Rielly would be the first real "high value" UFA. We have gained more from UFA under this management than we have lost to UFA, but people only seem to consider what's leaving. We also don't really have a trend of obtaining rentals. In 2019, we got Muzzin. Not a rental. In 2020, we got Campbell. Not a rental. This was the first year we really targeted rentals, and that was absolutely justified.

We have a great team, and we have a legitimate chance at the cup. This is when you go for it. This is not when you make your team worse to accumulate futures.

I guess it depends on what you mean by high value. Personally I think Hyman was another high value UFA who walked for nothing. If the corpse that was Folingo could return a 1st the much better player in Hyman would return a lot more.

Leafs spent a 1st, 3rd, 2 4ths and a 5th this past deadline alone, a 3rd rounder + Trevor Moore were traded for Clifford the year before etc. What UFAs did they sell and get back more assets than that (edit: misunderstood your point i think your saying we got more through UFAs than was lost which still isn't true)? Definitely not the first year rentals were targeted but okay. Also I'm talking about the organization as a whole since M&M joined the team they have bought rentals at the deadline and have let UFAs on the team walk for free consistently all while doing nothing in the playoffs.

I'm not even saying to trade Rielly. I think he should be resigned. No one on the team can replace his minutes. However this trend of buying rentals, letting UFAs walk for free and getting nowhere in the playoffs is not sustainable and will result in a limited prospect pool in the future

 

[WTFMAN99]

Jvr and bozak were walked to UFA because we signed Tavares, the rest are all middling guys competing teams turn over every season. Would you want any of those contracts on the books? Aren’t you a blackhawks fan?

I am a Blackhawks fan as well, yes.

You don't think Hyman, Barrie, Gardiner, Komarov etc at the time would have returned 2nd-3rd round picks? Some of the picks might have been good to use but it also could have been some decent currency in those off-seasons.